505 GTI S2 Air Con - Cost to get it running?
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default 505 GTI S2 Air Con - Cost to get it running?

    Hi froggers,

    I've now got the climate control working on the wagon, so no more leaping out in the rain to switch the heating on using the previous owner's manual under bonnet tap (with complimentary hand and wrist burns courtesy of the exhaust manifold). Oh the joy of the easy demist. So far so good.

    The next item on the list is the a/c which as far as I know hasn't worked for years. The pump bearing was noisy so I removed the belt (the eco button doesn't always remain pressed in due to 4 tiny hands in the family!) But at least I know the switch works....

    So, I'm guessing the pump will need replacing and then full re-gas and service. Anyone done this recently or would have any idea how much this is going to cost me? It's a longer term project which I'm saving up for and hope to get done before spring....

    Cheers,

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Grab a bit of string, cut it long and use that as your guide to costs and stuffing around.

    There are so many potential fail points in an old AC system, that you could be making a few visits back to the sparky to try and fix the leak and re gass.

    I'd budget around $1500 (for the whole job) if it needs a new compressor.

    You'd possibly have it all work first time and it may come in way less, but if there are leaks that dont imeadiatly show themselves, it could be a bugger of a job to keep the system working and the budget may seem conservative.

    I am of the firm opinion that if you want AC, buy a car where the AC works.
    In just one conversation with my sparky, I was convinced of the folly in trying to get a non functional system working unless you are doing all the work yourself or have very deep pockets.

    Jo

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomevans View Post
    Hi froggers,

    I've now got the climate control working on the wagon, so no more leaping out in the rain to switch the heating on using the previous owner's manual under bonnet tap (with complimentary hand and wrist burns courtesy of the exhaust manifold). Oh the joy of the easy demist. So far so good.

    The next item on the list is the a/c which as far as I know hasn't worked for years. The pump bearing was noisy so I removed the belt (the eco button doesn't always remain pressed in due to 4 tiny hands in the family!) But at least I know the switch works....

    So, I'm guessing the pump will need replacing and then full re-gas and service. Anyone done this recently or would have any idea how much this is going to cost me? It's a longer term project which I'm saving up for and hope to get done before spring....

    Cheers,
    When I got my S2 Gti back on the road (it had been parked for a few years) the aircon was not working, it was low on gas, I bypassed the cut-off switch on the drier and conformed that the pump would operate. I then took it to a local garage had the drier and a few o rings replaced and the system re-gassed. It has been working a treat ever since (3 years)
    Total cost was $260....................money well spent

    The noisy bearing might only be in the clutch, which is easily replaced.
    Who knows you may get lucky!!!
    cheers Pete

    I am gunna get another 403 on the road........one day

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Grab a bit of string, cut it long and use that as your guide to costs and stuffing around.

    There are so many potential fail points in an old AC system, that you could be making a few visits back to the sparky to try and fix the leak and re gass.

    I'd budget around $1500 (for the whole job) if it needs a new compressor.

    You'd possibly have it all work first time and it may come in way less, but if there are leaks that dont imeadiatly show themselves, it could be a bugger of a job to keep the system working and the budget may seem conservative.

    I am of the firm opinion that if you want AC, buy a car where the AC works.
    In just one conversation with my sparky, I was convinced of the folly in trying to get a non functional system working unless you are doing all the work yourself or have very deep pockets.

    Jo
    I thing I would have to back Jo on this one.

    I fitted aircon to my 404 and have had quite a bit experience with used compressors. The first three I found all had massive leaks from the front seals and were noisy.

    I would treat the repair process in two stages:

    1) If the system holds refrigerant just have it charged and check compressor operation. If it's OK. Then have the noise investigated and filter dryer replaced.

    2) If it won't hold charge and the compressor noisy I would go the whole hog with seals and new compressor.

    Jo's budget is sensible. Suggest you go an enlightened technician who uses Hychill.

  5. #5
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    Jo, Pete and Rob, thanks for the advice!
    Sounds like it will be one to approach slowly, prepared to pull out before the $$$ blowout....

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    I love that ever time AC is mentioned people instantly jump to $$$.

    I picked up a series 2 505 last year with dead AC I went through and replaced the dryer and a few seals (a huge kit of seals was a few bucks off ebay).

    Put it on the vac pump for a couple of hours and blew some gas into it.

    8 months later and all is still good with the AC, cost of repair....$50 bucks.

    So far as a compressor goes, try and find a used one, any decent AC guys will be able to bench test it for your fairly easily.

    Good luck
    Ben
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  7. #7
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug_405_Mi16 View Post
    I love that ever time AC is mentioned people instantly jump to $$$.


    Good luck
    Ben
    Ask yourself why that is??

    The question was asked, "Anyone done this recently or would have any idea how much this is going to cost me" and the question was answered.

    How long is my piece of string??? Yours is obviously short.

    You may put a value of $50 for your $50 service, but I'm pretty sure if the OP has to ask, he doesn't have the vacuum device like you do, so imeadiatly your $50 is his $200 when he books it in to a sparky.
    Get my point???

    ITs like a singer asking how much does it cost to record a 12 track album, and me lampooning anyone for taking an educated estimate, because it cost me nothing.

    Jo

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Ask yourself why that is??

    The question was asked, "Anyone done this recently or would have any idea how much this is going to cost me" and the question was answered.

    How long is my piece of string??? Yours is obviously short.

    You may put a value of $50 for your $50 service, but I'm pretty sure if the OP has to ask, he doesn't have the vacuum device like you do, so imeadiatly your $50 is his $200 when he books it in to a sparky.
    Get my point???

    ITs like a singer asking how much does it cost to record a 12 track album, and me lampooning anyone for taking an educated estimate, because it cost me nothing.

    Jo
    Thanks heaps for clearing that up Jo, and for reminding me why I hardly ever bother to post on here now days.

    Well done and Happy Easter!
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  9. #9
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug_405_Mi16 View Post
    I love that ever time AC is mentioned people instantly jump to $$$.

    I picked up a series 2 505 last year with dead AC I went through and replaced the dryer and a few seals (a huge kit of seals was a few bucks off ebay).

    Put it on the vac pump for a couple of hours and blew some gas into it.

    8 months later and all is still good with the AC, cost of repair....$50 bucks.

    So far as a compressor goes, try and find a used one, any decent AC guys will be able to bench test it for your fairly easily.

    Good luck
    Ben
    If you do it yourself of course it will be cheaper.

    As to second hand compressors- best of luck- 505 SII use a compressor with vertical orientation flare fittings.These are rare as rocking horse sh!t on the secondhand market. You can root around with a conversion to "o" ring fittings , but this will cost time and dollars.

    Many used compressors are in the same condition as what is fitted to the car. Many are totally stuffed because they have been run with low refrigerant and have suffered a lack of lubrication.

    Since they are Sanden 5xx series the existing head will fit a "new" (secondhand) compressor. You need a new head gasket if you change the head. It's also wise to do front shaft seals - with the special tools. By time this is done to unknown condition compressor, with no warranty and the chance of it stuffing up, a new compressor at $395 starts looking good.
    http://speedyairspares.com.au/produc...5_12V-4-6.html

    So the advice given was sound IMO

    1) Try to resurrect the system as is first
    2) Expect to spend quite a few bucks, if option 1 doesn't work.

    If the OP had the tools and skills, as you do Ben, he probably would not have posted in the first place.

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug_405_Mi16 View Post
    Thanks heaps for clearing that up Jo, and for reminding me why I hardly ever bother to post on here now days.

    Well done and Happy Easter!

    Oh boohoo


    Jo

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! Ikenna351's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Grab a bit of string, cut it long and use that as your guide to costs and stuffing around.

    There are so many potential fail points in an old AC system, that you could be making a few visits back to the sparky to try and fix the leak and re gass.

    I'd budget around $1500 (for the whole job) if it needs a new compressor.

    You'd possibly have it all work first time and it may come in way less, but if there are leaks that dont imeadiatly show themselves, it could be a bugger of a job to keep the system working and the budget may seem conservative.

    I am of the firm opinion that if you want AC, buy a car where the AC works.
    In just one conversation with my sparky, I was convinced of the folly in trying to get a non functional system working unless you are doing all the work yourself or have very deep pockets.

    Jo

    I know a lot of people that bought cars with the A/Cs working. Only for the A/Cs to break down days or weeks later after the purchase. Most people fix their non-working ACs anyhow, to enable them to sell their cars higher, when they want to sell them. So the new owners , thinking that the car AC is in good condition, wouldnt mind paying higher to enjoy the AC, without the headache of fixing it after the purchase, only for them to realise how wrong their thought was, days or weeks later after the purchase. Some would even only re-gass to make the AC work for few days to attract and impress interested buyers, when they know the systems have serious leakage, which they were not able to fix. So, Jo, it dosent always work that way.

    With determination, car AC issues can be fixed. Mine was working when i first got the car. Days later, it stopped working (gas leak). It took me 2 repairs, with two different AC repairers to find the leaks and fix it (The last repairer regassed with 134a, instead of R-12 Freon , yet it cooled better and lasted longer than the first that regassed with inferior R-12 freon which didnt last, I guess).

    Recently, the A/C has started acting up again. This time, am suspecting the "ECO" switch button. Normally, I would hear a clicking sound from the control panel when i switch on the compressor, before it starts cooling. But i dont hear the sound often these days and it wouldnt cool once it dosent sound. It cools now only when it wants to and wont cool sometimes when switched on. Wouldnt know if the system has low refrigerant or its loosing electrical contact somewhere. At least, the Compressor and the condensor fan works whenever the ECO button is switched on. Though, there was this day when the compressor and the condenser fan didnt turn when i switched on the ECO button. Minutes later, I switched off, switched on and they started working again and the system started cooling.

    One thing I have come to realise with autos is that "THERE IS NOTHING THAT CANT BE FIXED"

    Ikenna.

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikenna351 View Post
    I know a lot of people that bought cars with the A/Cs working. Only for the A/Cs to break down days or weeks later after the purchase. Most people fix their non-working ACs anyhow, to enable them to sell their cars higher, when they want to sell them. So the new owners , thinking that the car AC is in good condition, wouldnt mind paying higher to enjoy the AC, without the headache of fixing it after the purchase, only for them to realise how wrong their thought was, days or weeks later after the purchase. Some would even only re-gass to make the AC work for few days to attract and impress interested buyers, when they know the systems have serious leakage, which they were not able to fix. So, Jo, it dosent always work that way.


    Ikenna.
    I'm hearing you.

    In an old car, its not usually too dificult to spot if the AC has been serviced recently.

    How about the french guy who sold me my car.

    He advertised it with "great aircon" which I knew was a mistake as soon as i read it.

    Of course as soon as i started the car and turned on the AC, I found as suspected, there was no temp difference between the pipes in the engine bay and ambient temp.

    Even whilst i was standing there, he kept telling me how good the AC was. Ah derr.

    I didn't have the energy to argue the point and say like most other fuego's the AC was cactus and that what he thought was cold air was not cooled in any way.

    The car had been driven from perth across to the east coast. I can only imagine how hot that would have been with all the windows shut and the AC on.

    Jo

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug_405_Mi16 View Post
    Thanks heaps for clearing that up Jo, and for reminding me why I hardly ever bother to post on here now days.

    Well done and Happy Easter!
    Ben,

    If you open your posts with veiled criticism then you have to expect other members to bounce back at you.

    Different wording may have elicited a different response.

    It's a two way street.

    cheers


    Rob

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    3 years ago we bought a '92 Ser.2 505 GTi wagon. Like Ikenna's, after a few months the air-con gave up the ghost.
    Come the next summer we decided to have it checked and re-gassed. This they did by firstly inserting a dye and pressurising the system and checking for leaks. Seals were replaced where a couple of leaks were found. The receiver/drier was also replaced and the system re-gassed. All up $350.
    For a couple of days it worked beautifully -- and then it just wouldn't turn on again.
    Two problems. Firstly the ECO button had a mind of its own and most times wouldn't latch. Secondly, on the rare occassion that it did, the Climate Control ECU just buzzed -- and no cool air.
    A jumper lead from battery + to the compressor [wire no.6] proved that the cold air system worked; obviously the problem was electrical, most likely the ECU, and for this I was quoted $400.
    Having downloaded the Peugeot Technical Training system diagnosis for 'Heating & Ventilation', plus their 'Climate Control, 505 Vehicles' I was then able to isolate the air-con side of things from the heating section. This has meant that, via a seperate switch, the air-con is blowing maximum at all times -- but still subject to fan speed. The heating side of things, though, is still temperature controlled via the ECU.
    If it is of help to anyone, I;
    Accessed the black ECU [with 3 connectors] bolted next to the injection ECU under the glove box. Twin 15amp wires were run from the ECU, behind the heater, to a push for on, push for off switch from Jaycar [SP 0758] inserted in place of the [useless] headlight ajusting one on the left side of the steering column cowl.
    At the ECU, one wire was spliced onto wire 33 [middle connector] which is ignition controlled from fuse 3. The wire exiting the right hand connector, wire 6, [to the compressor]was cut and the end going to the compressor was joined to the second wire from the new column switch.
    All wire joins were soldered. Obviously, also, all joins are well insulation taped.

    This set-up has worked trouble free over the past summer.

  15. #15
    mlb
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    I may have the climate control and/or heating technical manual in PDF form here. If wanted I'm more than happy to put it up.

    Matt
    Fight for your opinions, but do not believe that they contain the whole truth, or the only truth.

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