Engine out of 205 GTI
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Default Engine out of 205 GTI

    I had to pull the engine out today and have a question for others who might be more experienced.

    Is it possible at all to lift the engine out of the bay? I found it very easy to drop it and lift the car on ramps to get it out. Lifting it seemed impossible. Have to mention, I had all the timing side of the engine completely stripped out, including the two M8 studs that hold bits around there that would have hit the inner fender. Even so, the engine would not come off the input shaft of the transmission.

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    1000+ Posts gezza's Avatar
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    Anything is possible although it is easier to come forward with it out of the front...

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    You mean by taking out the slam panel, radiator and all that crap in front of it? I didn't have those off my car, but still didn't see how to get the bastard off the input shaft. I'll try though when my engine arrives.

    One more question here.

    I didn't find a pilot bearing in the flywheel on my car. Is there supposed to be one?
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    I usually leave the gearbox on and slide the whole unit out the nearside wheelarch. That's if your shocks are removed. Did u undo the bolts holding the starter on? And the Allen key bolts round the back near the diff?
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
    91 205 Si
    87 205 GTi Race Car
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts PugMonkey's Avatar
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    Drop it down and remove it from underneath - so much easier. If you have the room (height) have a trolley waiting for it. Much easier again if you remove the intake manifold and exhaust manifold.

    I made up some timber brackets to rest the motor on whilst it sits on the floor. It was easier to strip and then mount on an engine stand.




    Also here if you want more pix

    http://s1001.photobucket.com/albums/...%20Transplant/


    Moo.
    Last edited by PugMonkey; 18th April 2011 at 09:58 AM.
    ....now watch a Peugeot turn into a corner!

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I had absolutely everything off the engine. Including the head. Every hose, wire, screw, nut and bracket that could be in the way (like holding wires or other stuff has been removed too.

    Every little ancillary was off too, including the water temp sensor housing, the hoses at the back and right wheel/chassis rail, etc. You've got to belive me, I mean everything.

    All that however doesn't help, becasue the main problem is you have to slide the engine off the transmission input shaft and there simply is not enough room to do it, so you have to tiwst the whole lot to the side and up or down. Up was not an option for me because I did not remove the radiator. This will come out though before I put the new engine back in, so, I'll try again to come from above.

    Not sure how removing the struts would help, they're on the other side of the inner fender.

    Anyway, it's out now, and there will be more stuff coming off before the new engine goes in.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 18th April 2011 at 02:08 PM.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts PugMonkey's Avatar
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    These steps are a must before attempting to remove the engine - Saves heaps of heartache.

    remove in this order

    grill and lights (inc driving / fog lights)
    bumper
    slam panel
    radiator & thermo fans (in one unit)

    I have changed my starter motor about 6 times now and have all of the above tasks down to about 15 minutes!

    Take all these off and you open up the front of the car to reveal LOTS OF SPACE.





    Moo
    ....now watch a Peugeot turn into a corner!

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Yep, that is my next move. I see you are trying to get out the engine and g'box together. I think that makes the job easier because you can swing the whole unit left, up and the right to clear the driver side inner fender with the bottom of the engine, then just pull up the whole thing. This is not possible when splitting the engine away.

    One question.

    I see in your picture the battery tray has a different colour. Is your battery tray separate to the bodyshell? Mine is part of the shell, but I would like to make it a separate thing. The g'box mount is part of it though and that makes it somewhat difficult to engineer something.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Yep, that is my next move. I see you are trying to get out the engine and g'box together. I think that makes the job easier because you can swing the whole unit left, up and the right to clear the driver side inner fender with the bottom of the engine, then just pull up the whole thing. This is not possible when splitting the engine away.

    One question.

    I see in your picture the battery tray has a different colour. Is your battery tray separate to the bodyshell? Mine is part of the shell, but I would like to make it a separate thing. The g'box mount is part of it though and that makes it somewhat difficult to engineer something.
    Just pull engine and gearbox together, out the top.
    I have your engine parts at home now, will dismantle and then get a postage price.
    Graham

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Thank you very much, Graham.

    If the water temp sensor housing at g'box end is in good nick (i.e. not corroded), can you please leave it on? Same with the hose connection thingie at the opposite end of the block, where the bottom radiator hose ends up.

    Any good source of hoses for these cars?
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Thank you very much, Graham.

    If the water temp sensor housing at g'box end is in good nick (i.e. not corroded), can you please leave it on? Same with the hose connection thingie at the opposite end of the block, where the bottom radiator hose ends up.

    Any good source of hoses for these cars?
    If you remove the oil cooler set up you can run a JB Camira top hose.
    Silicone hoses are available from the UK, but the oil cooler set up won't be available from that source, I do have a used oil cooler style hose in good condition.
    May not have the housing as it is an Si head which had solid state ignition with a coil pack sitting where the dissy normally goes, I'll take a look, may be something lying around..
    Graham

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    If you remove the oil cooler set up you can run a JB Camira top hose.
    Silicone hoses are available from the UK, but the oil cooler set up won't be available from that source, I do have a used oil cooler style hose in good condition.
    May not have the housing as it is an Si head which had solid state ignition with a coil pack sitting where the dissy normally goes, I'll take a look, may be something lying around..
    Graham

    Then housing I am after is just below the dizzy.

    At the other end of the engine, there is another housing again, I need that one two as both mine are very corroded.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Then housing I am after is just below the dizzy.

    At the other end of the engine, there is another housing again, I need that one two as both mine are very corroded.
    So, you're just after the connection bit for the hoses then?
    Graham

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    So, you're just after the connection bit for the hoses then?
    Graham

    Just to make it clear here are two pictures of the items I am talking about. The first shows in the right hand lower corner the first housing/connection thingie, the second one shows the temp sender housing.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Engine out of 205 GTI-screenshot.jpg   Engine out of 205 GTI-screenshot-1.jpg  
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Just to make it clear here are two pictures of the items I am talking about. The first shows in the right hand lower corner the first housing/connection thingie, the second one shows the temp sender housing.
    I'll have a look.

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    if they're corroded, don't worry about it, but if they're nice, I want them.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  17. #17
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    The battery holder/gearbox mount unbolts from the body. Have a look. Makes things easier.

    ALWAYS remove engine and gearbox as a unit, unless you are a masochist. You thought getting it OUT was hard? Top or bottom, it's a personal choice.

    Tim

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    1000+ Posts PugMonkey's Avatar
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    When my engine was out, I tried to remove the battery mount and gearbox mount from the body but mine is fixed and welded.

    Moo
    ....now watch a Peugeot turn into a corner!

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcusack View Post
    The battery holder/gearbox mount unbolts from the body. Have a look. Makes things easier.

    [...]
    How the heck does it do that?!! Please point me where to look for bolts/nuts as I am at a loss.

    As for removing the whole lot together, I agree it's easier, but you have to take out driveshafts, therefore struts, etc.

    Irrelevant anyway, as I will have to do it, because I have just found I have destroyed the RH driveshaft seal and some of the gearbox oil leaked out. Grrrr!
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    How the heck does it do that?!! Please point me where to look for bolts/nuts as I am at a loss.

    As for removing the whole lot together, I agree it's easier, but you have to take out driveshafts, therefore struts, etc.

    Irrelevant anyway, as I will have to do it, because I have just found I have destroyed the RH driveshaft seal and some of the gearbox oil leaked out. Grrrr!
    4 13mm bolts, for two you will need a small socket set as they are tucked away underneath..
    Yes, take the drive shafts out, very simple and quick once you get the nack.
    Leave the struts in just remove the steering tie rod ends and then remove the clamping bolt at the bottom.
    You need a piece of pipe or a crow bar to lever the suspension arm down in the Si, with the GTi you may not. Tap the control arm with a hammer while levering to get the ball joint to slide out of the bearing housing.
    Right hand drive shaft requires the removal of the bolts holding the intermediate bearing.
    Take some oil out of the gearbox first so you won't drop any on the ground.
    Graham

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post

    [...]
    .
    Take some oil out of the gearbox first so you won't drop any on the ground.
    Graham
    Thank you Graham, that took care of itself once I damaged the oil seal, probably because the g'box leaned on it once the engine was out.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Thank you Graham, that took care of itself once I damaged the oil seal, probably because the g'box leaned on it once the engine was out.
    I've got your crank out, standard size and no discernable ridges to the touch.
    A little discolouration in spots which a quick linish would fix.
    Interestingly the oil rings had no spacer behind them, just floating in the breeze,
    they were very flexible, not the cast iron variety.
    Maybe that's the reason almost every DFz had to be recalled due to excessive oil consumption?
    Graham

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    That's great news Graham. I understand you run your fingernail across the journals and felt nothing?

    What oil rings are you talking about? Piston rings I hope?

    I will have a look at those I pulled out of my engine.

    Anyway, I want to get a new complete set of liners/pistons/rings, maybe there is a something better than the original Pug offering?
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    That's great news Graham. I understand you run your fingernail across the journals and felt nothing?

    What oil rings are you talking about? Piston rings I hope?

    I will have a look at those I pulled out of my engine.

    Anyway, I want to get a new complete set of liners/pistons/rings, maybe there is a something better than the original Pug offering?
    Caravelle has DKZ/130HP pistons and liners for less than $500.
    With the DKz/Si head this should give you around 9.5 to 1 compression ,better than the original 8.3 to 1 and also better than putting early pistons with a late head, this is up around 11 to 1 and really not a great idea for a daily driver, you would at least need 98 octane and mapped ignition.
    Graham

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I was aiming for about 10:1 or thereabouts. Not sure you can run much more thasn 10.5:1 on normal pump juice.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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