205gti brakes - standard or upgrade?
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! DjB8V's Avatar
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    Default 205gti brakes - standard or upgrade?

    Now that all the fun stuff has arrived for the engine, I'm starting to look at the less exciting tasks now.

    I've been having a bit of a think about brakes. Most of you all know the basic idea behind my build up now and I'm wondering how far I need to go with brakes? At this stage I'm thinking refurbing the original equipment with quality bits and pieces is good enough. I really don't want to convert to disk brakes on the back if I can get away with it.

    This is my train of thought at the moment -

    Reco/refurbed master cylinder, calipers and rear drums
    Get the disks and drums machined
    Run quality pads on he front and back
    Use quality brake fluid (refreashing regulary)

    Obviously, tyres will be addressed and these will be quality items too.

    The brakes on my 205 have always been pretty good, but I want to make sure everything is up to scratch. I should also add that I'm not totally dismissing the idea of upgrading my brakes but its a cost that will properly blow out the whole build more so (after explaining the arrival of my quad throttle bodies to my wife on Friday) this it will be pretty much be the icing on the cake. So as I'm sure you can all appreciate, if I can run the standard equipment in tip top shape, I would prefer this.

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    Any input would be appreciated,

    Thanks again,


    Chris.

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Standard brakes in tip-top condition are more than adequate Chris. Most of the upgrades weigh too much. If you have any reservations at all, use slotted discs and Pagid pads, or one of the many alternatives that will be suggested. You know by now whose opinions are worth hearing.

    If you can lock the front wheels, you need better tyres, not bigger brakes.

    Tim

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! DjB8V's Avatar
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    Thanks for that.

    I think I've locked the fronts up maybe once in 3 years....... I've always been happy with 205GTI brakes, just need confirmation from someone who knows better than me.

    Oh yeah, I've got that towbar off my 205 Tim, i'll sort freight out this week.


    Chris

  4. #4
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    Thanks Chris. See the couple of recent transport threads. Some of the recommendations were very cheap - "E-go", and another one from Andy Crane.

    Tim

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    Chris, you are welcome to come and stomp on my brakes to see if that helps you with any decision. I just had a cruise through Rowville actually. If your car is going to the see the track a bit, then the slots and Pagid combo should work well enough.

    ps. great brakes aint boring!
    Last edited by Isis; 17th April 2011 at 06:04 PM.
    S3 205 GTI x 4 and getting lower
    1998 S1 Lotus Elise
    2013 Fiesta ST
    2014 Audi SQ5

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! DjB8V's Avatar
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    Slotted rotors and good pads for sure. I'm very keen to have a look over your 205 Isis. Maybe over Easter. Between running my business, teaching four days a week, landscaping my backyard and all the other stuff that needs to be done I''ve got no time.... LOL.

    Whats the setup on your 205?


    Chris

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! four_plus_two's Avatar
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    I have 306 brakes on mine (something from the wreckers, some early two-door 306 with the same hubs as S3 205), the only advantage I can see is more availability of parts (sorry Chris, can't remember if your car is S1 or not).

    I did notice the Si master cylinder has four lines coming off, compared to 3 on my S1 GTi.

    Someone smarter than me could probably advise if that's an advantage with a drum rear end or the proportioning valve at the rear will be enough.

    What are you doing for brake lines? I tossed mine as they were starting to corrode and bent in places.
    Last edited by four_plus_two; 17th April 2011 at 06:35 PM. Reason: brakes lines

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  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! DjB8V's Avatar
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    Yeah I hear what your saying.

    Mine is 1989 GTI so its one of these series 1.5 or something. I might be getting my grubby mits on a disc rear end. I know I said I didn't want to do this but I've always associated a disc brake rearend conversion with bulk $$$$$.

    Ehhhhh. I should find out later this week. I have a set of Bendix calipers I've almost finished rebuilding so that with either rebuilt drums or rebuilt disc rear should stand my 205 on it's front bumper with a little luck.


    Chris

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! Brett's Avatar
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    I've got a 1.5 series running standard brakes package on the track.
    Just fitted slotted front rotors, red stuff pads and only lock up in the wet.
    The Red stuff seams to wear faster than DS2500 on the 206.
    The only trouble is trying to lift my foot in the wet when locked up.


    B&S on the track @ Mallala by Brettso, on Flickr

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! DjB8V's Avatar
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    Hrrmmmmmmmm

    You would have the Bendix calipers then? How do your brakes hold up in the dry? Do they heat and get soft/spongy (for the lack of a better term fade)?

    Thanks,


    Chris.

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! Brett's Avatar
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    They did in the 206 until the brake fluid was upgraded.
    I went straight to 5.1 fluid and haven't had a problem in the 205.
    We only normally do 5-7 laps a heat and the 205 is 8V.
    I'm probably not developing speed or brake the temperatures of people a running Mi16 engine, but Mallala is renowned for being hard on brakes.
    I'm still running a standard oil cooler and have noticed elevate oil temp more than any brake problems on warm days.

    Brett

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DjB8V View Post
    Slotted rotors and good pads for sure. I'm very keen to have a look over your 205 Isis. Maybe over Easter. Between running my business, teaching four days a week, landscaping my backyard and all the other stuff that needs to be done I''ve got no time.... LOL.

    Whats the setup on your 205?


    Chris
    I will be away for all of Easter but the following weekends should work out OK. Find your way to the French car day on the coming Sunday and I will be there. Apparently quite a few 205s will turn up.

    Just note that the pagids and similar pads will squeal most of the time unless you get them properly hot on the track, so for regular daily driving I would choose the standards.
    S3 205 GTI x 4 and getting lower
    1998 S1 Lotus Elise
    2013 Fiesta ST
    2014 Audi SQ5

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    Just note that the pagids and similar pads will squeal most of the time unless you get them properly hot on the track
    Bollocks. The beauty of the Pagids is that they are a direct replacement for the standard pads, require no "bedding in", can be driven normally, from stone cold to smoking hot, with no difference in feel, and don't need changing for "track days" They also wear quite well. The only downside is the cost, which is breathtaking.

    Tim

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcusack View Post
    Bollocks. The beauty of the Pagids is that they are a direct replacement for the standard pads, require no "bedding in", can be driven normally, from stone cold to smoking hot, with no difference in feel, and don't need changing for "track days" They also wear quite well. The only downside is the cost, which is breathtaking.

    Tim
    Perhaps I should be a little more clear to avoid your wrath Tim: what you say is true and not contrary to my own observations. I never said you needed to change the pads for track days. However, in my humble experience, they squeak a bit and I am confident my brakes are properly set up. It doesnt actually bother me, but if I was using the car everyday and relying on 20% of the braking ability 90% of the time, then I would avoid the squeal and have normal pads. I have been told that these pads need heat to expand slightly and perform perfectly. the 205 is so light that it is hard to get heat into my brake set up in normal daily use, same with the tyres.
    S3 205 GTI x 4 and getting lower
    1998 S1 Lotus Elise
    2013 Fiesta ST
    2014 Audi SQ5

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    My old paid blacks were ok cold fantastic hot. no squeal but standard were better from cold. 600$ for my old S1.
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
    91 205 Si
    87 205 GTi Race Car
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    Chris, look at replacing brake lines completely...I m currently rebuilding the brakes on my brothers mark II golf gti...a 92...and the brake lines are buggered...So...new master, new lines and rebuilt calipers...we are keeping the VW stock...they stop ok...
    My gti had the EBC and they were terrible cold...but very good once hot...drum rear is sufficient...
    I ve got trw in a couple of my cars at the moment and they are very good...great feel...on the wifes honda I went all out with fresh dba rotors, bendix advance (older advance is better than latest stealths) and new brake hoses...
    I d recommend doing a good bleed into a white porcelain dish and see if you are getting any corrosive sediment...if so...definitely change ALL brake lines (shame to skimp on brake lines considering trouble you ve gone to already)...to give you an idea...brakes plus in moorabin charges about 15-20 a corner (trade) for stock rubber sections...allow a couple hundred for steel sections...but well worth it...



    dino

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