Bought a tired 205 back to life!
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Default Bought a tired 205 back to life!

    So bought a tatty 205 gti (S1) for little money 10days ago. It had some rego and I needed transport badly. After all these years of owning and modifying 205s I had SO many parts taking up space and have never had a car to put them on.

    After driving her home, I soon realised that the rear beam was shot to bits and the front end was fairly tired also. So, I just happened to have a 309 Beam that I rebuilt ( had rebuilt by Adrian and Owen W ) that had not been used, so out came the drum brake, shagged rear end, up went the fresh, disc brake solid mounted 309 beam. I then fitted my 15in Speedlines with fresh Michi Pilot sport 2s. Wow, what a difference a new rear end makes!!

    Then, after turning my head torch off at 1am, I then had 4 hours sleep, drove to Wakefield for the day and got some terrific laps in. Man, a 205 makes you a better person. I havent been in one for about 2 years and I miss them so much. You just have to focus, feel and think where you want to be, and you there!! Massive lift off oversteer entry into turn 1, not good for the timer but great fun.

    After returning from the track, the front end needed some attention. I had lying around, fresh 309 bottom arms ( new bushes and ball joints ) 309 driveshafts, S3 hubs( new bearings), yellow Konis and new standard springs, S3 brakes and some discs and began the transformation. After a full day, and skinned knuckles she was back on the road with a new front end. Man, such a great setup and so much fun.

    I have to get a proper wheel alignment ( booked in for tomorrow ) but other than that, feels bloody great.

    Anyway, thought I would share the last 10 days of 205 ownership again!!

    On a side not, The car feels like its turning better to the left than the right. I did the best alignment I could but could it be possible that it has something to do with it?

    Regards Cam

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! DjB8V's Avatar
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    Thats proper lucky having a 309 suspension setup "lying" around.

    Well done !!!



    Chris

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Haha, Yea, I brought it back from the UK with me about 5 years ago. Had it on a car for 2 days and it got written off by someone T-boning me. Despite whats said about the setup on the UK forum, the rear end especially is fantastic. Im yet to be convinced by the front setup. Until I have the alignment done, just realised that a tierod is dead, and one of the hubs seems to be mismatched. Little things but all add up.

    Ill keep you posted.

    Cam
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  4. #4
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cam85 View Post

    [...]

    On a side not, The car feels like its turning better to the left than the right. I did the best alignment I could but could it be possible that it has something to do with it?

    Regards Cam
    Check the settings on the konis first, make sure they're identical all around. Check springs to ake sure they're identical left to right both front and rear.

    Check steering lock is equal. Check steering rack height left to right.

    Check the toe-out/camber/caster left to right, make sure they're identical. This might need some home made rigging, I wouldn't trust the machinne that did it in the first place. Or perhaps go to a number of wheel alignment places and compare the data. Don't let them realign anything yet.

    Coming from a world of BMW, I know that alignment is done best with the car loaded as it would in normal exploitation, i.e. weights in the back seat and front as if you had passengers, tank full. You can use water jugs/jerry cans placed in the relevant places.

    If you need to make a home device for front end alignment, Jo Proffi has done it (see the Renault forum, or shoot him an email). If you're good with geometry, you can come up with your own rigging. You need laser pointers/levels and a bit of mathematics. I assume all the suspension/steering is in good nick, chassis/lower arm attaching points not distorted. You might need to check this. When you're sure, you can do the alignment yourself or just go to a shop where you have been before and have their readout and comparing with their readings tell them where you want the car to end up.

    Turn your attention then to the rear end of the car. Measure toe/camber even though it is not adjustable. A minimal difference can make a big difference.

    Check the sway bar links/settings.

    Try to drive the car with a passenger of equal weight to yours in the left seat.

    PS. I assume you've checked tire pressures.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 13th April 2011 at 10:47 PM.
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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Wow, thanks for the great advice.

    Ive always been interested in this part and am looking forward to getting an answer.
    I went to the alignment place today to have a chat with the guy and after him understanding I wanted something specific, im hoping he will do a good job.
    Ill get him to check all angles etc and give me copies of the results.

    Cam
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  6. #6
    1000+ Posts gezza's Avatar
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    Wish i had those parts lyeing around lol!!

    Well done anyway another saved

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Karoshi's Avatar
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    Great work Cam!
    Very impressive!

    How does the extra width in the rear track affect handling?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cam85 View Post
    So bought a tatty 205 gti (S1) for little money 10days ago. It had some rego and I needed transport badly. After all these years of owning and modifying 205s I had SO many parts taking up space and have never had a car to put them on.

    After driving her home, I soon realised that the rear beam was shot to bits and the front end was fairly tired also. So, I just happened to have a 309 Beam that I rebuilt ( had rebuilt by Adrian and Owen W ) that had not been used, so out came the drum brake, shagged rear end, up went the fresh, disc brake solid mounted 309 beam. I then fitted my 15in Speedlines with fresh Michi Pilot sport 2s. Wow, what a difference a new rear end makes!!

    Then, after turning my head torch off at 1am, I then had 4 hours sleep, drove to Wakefield for the day and got some terrific laps in. Man, a 205 makes you a better person. I havent been in one for about 2 years and I miss them so much. You just have to focus, feel and think where you want to be, and you there!! Massive lift off oversteer entry into turn 1, not good for the timer but great fun.

    After returning from the track, the front end needed some attention. I had lying around, fresh 309 bottom arms ( new bushes and ball joints ) 309 driveshafts, S3 hubs( new bearings), yellow Konis and new standard springs, S3 brakes and some discs and began the transformation. After a full day, and skinned knuckles she was back on the road with a new front end. Man, such a great setup and so much fun.

    I have to get a proper wheel alignment ( booked in for tomorrow ) but other than that, feels bloody great.

    Anyway, thought I would share the last 10 days of 205 ownership again!!

    On a side not, The car feels like its turning better to the left than the right. I did the best alignment I could but could it be possible that it has something to do with it?

    Regards Cam


    Every GTi I've had does this, haven't noticed it on the Sis.
    I've found that centralising the rack is the key to fixing this problem, that is making sure the wheel turns equally from the straight ahead to the lock stops in each direction.
    Graham

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    OK
    Had the Alignment done today. The bloke said that It was very close but the driver side was slightly toe out. He centered the race and then aligned it correctly just to make sure. It is noticibly lighter in steering and much 'nicer' to steer. It is still turning better to the left than the right so im now going to check the shocks and make sure the are the same setting. Can somebody tell me how this Is done on Koni Yellows?
    He is going to give me a print out of the data tomorrow as their printer was down today.

    Cam
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karoshi View Post
    Great work Cam!
    Very impressive!

    How does the extra width in the rear track affect handling?
    Well, I can say that It probably turns in better, feels more planted at higher speed turns. Does feel sightly more cumbersome at tighter turns but it is also riding slightly higher than standard which I would like to change. Anyone want to lower my beam for me?

    Cam
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by cam85 View Post
    Well, I can say that It probably turns in better, feels more planted at higher speed turns. Does feel sightly more cumbersome at tighter turns but it is also riding slightly higher than standard which I would like to change. Anyone want to lower my beam for me?

    Cam
    Thanks, always wondered that.

    As for lowering your beam, you seem to be fairly well qualified for suspension work and willing to get your hands dirty, all you need is a friend with a press....

    Keep up the good work!

  12. #12
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    Have you checked the wishbone bushes Cam ? A classic 205 problem that can make the steering vie to one side.
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  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    cam, you are obviously a complete gun. send us some photos
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  14. #14
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Has Brand new bushes. They are the poly ones though that im not really a fan of. Had them 'lying' around though.

    Had a good drive of her today, actually feels pretty good. I think because of the camber of the front wheels, the tyres prefer higher speed to have complete contact with the road when turning/cornering. Finds the ruts in the road too hehe. Keeps you busy which I love.

    Its a proper beaten ( sleeper ) gti. Ill get some Photos up.

    Cam
    Last edited by cam85; 15th April 2011 at 03:57 PM.
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  15. #15
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    Took my mates 1.6 Si for a spin the other night to pick up takeaway...

    Has been lowered, front end is hybrid GTI/SI spec with a GTI rear beam in there! For something which has 260,000km on the clock and is as loose as a wizards sleeve - it was still total magic to drive. The steering is spot on, puts modern hot hatches to shame through the corners and most importantly - it has character in buckets!

    Wish I had a spare couple of grand lying around - I'd have a tidy 1.9 GTI any day of the week : )
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  16. #16
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    So Pics.
    As you can see, its needs lowering slightly in the rear. It still feels great so It dosent really bother me but It should be sitting lower. You can also see that the wheel are right to the guards due to the 309 beam. When I have a few more spare moments ill sort the ride height. Probably after I fit a hotter ( more fun ) engine. This ones a bit rattly

    Cam
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Bought a tired 205 back to life!-imag0153.jpg   Bought a tired 205 back to life!-imag0157.jpg   Bought a tired 205 back to life!-imag0158.jpg   Bought a tired 205 back to life!-imag0159.jpg   Bought a tired 205 back to life!-imag0160.jpg   Bought a tired 205 back to life!-imag0161.jpg  

    94 205 Gti Classic #9
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  17. #17
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    Looks great! Looking forward to seeing some pics once you've cleaned her up a bit. What are you going to do about the guards on the rear? They do look mighty close...

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Im going to be leaving the body alone as Im respraying a nice S3 that I also have so this red beast is more of a test bed for what works and what does not.

    The underside of the rear guards can be filed off. If you put your hand under the plastic part they have a lip. Removing this solves any scraping. It scrapped the other night when I went too fast over a big speed hump so ill make sure ill sort that when it gets lowered. Ill only be lowering it about 20mm or so from where it is. he front is sitting right just the rear needs to be brought down a touch.

    Cam
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  19. #19
    1000+ Posts gezza's Avatar
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    Looking good well done sir

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by cam85 View Post
    Ill only be lowering it about 20mm or so from where it is. he front is sitting right just the rear needs to be brought down a touch.
    A skinny guy like you could work under it without a jack. The front looks way high to me - the back not all that bad, but it's easy to bring it down a bit (bag of cement). Will the front settle a bit, d'you reckon?

    Tim

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Hoping the front will settle. The front is usually visually higher than the back due to the design of the car. The rear arches are lower than the front. I just want it to be level all around. It has started to feel much better which seems very far out but surprisingly true. ( make sense?)

    Cam
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  22. #22
    1075.6 SamR's Avatar
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    Nice work Cam, good to see another 205 on the road!
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  24. #24
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    A lot of cars have this wheelarch design that makes them look as if the front is higher than the rear. The reason is the front wheel needs more room around it to clear the arch when at full lock.

    If you look for instance at stock Renault 12 pictures it will look exactly the same, but if you consult the manuals or measure one you will see they're not higher at the rear.
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    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Yea as I thought. Once I get a few Ks on it and sort a few more things ill then lower it to see how it feels, and check the alignment again.
    I need to change a CV boot already, Its the Outer near side. Grease everywhere. Looks to be a small split in it. How is this done? I have a spare good boot 'lying' around. Is it a matter of pulling the boot off the fitting? Its the fitting over the three knuckles that is confusing me. Am i missing something?
    Cam
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