505 GTi intermittent acceleration problem
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts okalford's Avatar
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    Icon9 505 GTi intermittent acceleration problem

    Yesterday while doing about 50km an hour my car suddenly lost acceleration. I managed to get off the main road and into a side street, turned the car off and had a look under the bonnet for anything obvious etc. When I restarted it drove normally again. I kept driving, this time with my fingers crossed. When I got home I checked the spark plugs. One was a bit oiled up, an issue I have had for a while. So I replaced that spark plug but I doubt that was the cause of the issue.

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    Today, after about 10km of driving the same loss of acceleration happened again and then went back to normal after about a minute.

    I will soon be replacing this car but need to keep it on the road for another few months. I am hoping to not have to spend much more on it having already just had work done on the brakes and the exhaust.

    Because the problem is intermittent it is hard to 'show' anyone. In my panic I am not sure if it lost acceleration completely, ie whether it was only moving on the inertia of the car. It seemed to have no power at all although the engine was still running and increasing in revs when I put my foot on the accelerator. It’s an '89 Gti wagon, series 2. It is also dangerous if this happens in the wrong place.

    Has anyone had a similar experience and/or could suggest what I could look at for diagnosis. I am at a loss whether it is the fuel system or an electrical issue. Once it self-rectifies it is as though there was no problem at all.

    Thanks in advance for any clues.
    '66 404 Wagon
    '78 504 Wagon
    '89 505 GTI S II Familiale

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okalford View Post
    Yesterday while doing about 50km an hour my car suddenly lost acceleration. I managed to get off the main road and into a side street, turned the car off and had a look under the bonnet for anything obvious etc. When I restarted it drove normally again. I kept driving, this time with my fingers crossed. When I got home I checked the spark plugs. One was a bit oiled up, an issue I have had for a while. So I replaced that spark plug but I doubt that was the cause of the issue.

    Today, after about 10km of driving the same loss of acceleration happened again and then went back to normal after about a minute.

    I will soon be replacing this car but need to keep it on the road for another few months. I am hoping to not have to spend much more on it having already just had work done on the brakes and the exhaust.

    Because the problem is intermittent it is hard to 'show' anyone. In my panic I am not sure if it lost acceleration completely, ie whether it was only moving on the inertia of the car. It seemed to have no power at all although the engine was still running and increasing in revs when I put my foot on the accelerator. Itís an '89 Gti wagon, series 2. It is also dangerous if this happens in the wrong place.

    Has anyone had a similar experience and/or could suggest what I could look at for diagnosis. I am at a loss whether it is the fuel system or an electrical issue. Once it self-rectifies it is as though there was no problem at all.

    Thanks in advance for any clues.

    If it's a sudden cut suspect electrics

    If it a pig rooting then a slow stop suspect fuel?

    Does the GTI have a tachometric relay? That, rev operated fuel pump relay.
    The less one interacts with rude, ignorant, critical and argumentative members. The more peaceful life becomes.

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! James S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okalford View Post
    It seemed to have no power at all although the engine was still running and increasing in revs when I put my foot on the accelerator.
    Sounds like a slipping clutch. You can test for this by pulling the handbrake on (hard) and trying to move the car as you normally would on take off. You then have to give it more revs as you continue to release the clutch. If the car doesn't try to move off as you'd expect it to, but the revs keep going up when the clutch is let out, the clutch is probably suspect. Maybe this helps??

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    Loose connection. But which one?

    Tim

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    "It seemed to have no power at all although the engine was still running and increasing in revs when I put my foot on the accelerator." I am with James..... check the clutch ,and soon! Neil

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts okalford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neil s View Post
    "It seemed to have no power at all although the engine was still running and increasing in revs when I put my foot on the accelerator." I am with James..... check the clutch ,and soon! Neil
    I think you and James might be right Neil; after a chat on the phone with another pug enthusiast mate tonight (where I could describe it better) I now feel it could well be the clutch.
    BUGGER!!! Clutch has been sus for a while.

    Thanks lots to everyone who replied, I'll post again once I know more for sure.
    '66 404 Wagon
    '78 504 Wagon
    '89 505 GTI S II Familiale

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts okalford's Avatar
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    I'm looking at getting the clutch done now and have found a Valeo kit at a good price. I need to know whether the pilot bearing is normally changed on a 505 clutch replacement, or if it's a really long-lived part. The Valeo kits don't come with a pilot bearing.

    Also; do you normally change the clutch fork when doing the clutch?
    '66 404 Wagon
    '78 504 Wagon
    '89 505 GTI S II Familiale

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okalford View Post
    I'm looking at getting the clutch done now and have found a Valeo kit at a good price. I need to know whether the pilot bearing is normally changed on a 505 clutch replacement, or if it's a really long-lived part. The Valeo kits don't come with a pilot bearing.

    Also; do you normally change the clutch fork when doing the clutch?
    Hi Kaye,

    I would do the clutch fork because they are (or were last time) less than $50. If you are unlucky enough to break one the whole engine or gearbox has to come out again. If the GTI is the same as the XN make sure the clutch fork pivot point is well greased and rubber seal doover is properly placed.

    Yes, it has happened to me, the pivot area of the fork fell out, due to lack of lubrication, on a 404 shortly after replacing a clutch. That was in the late 70's and I still remember the hassle.

    I've never replaced a spigot bush, but it's a good idea to clean and re-grease the one that is installed and to check the condition of seal.

    It's also a good time to look at clutch hydraulics. Seal kits for the master and slave cylinders are not worth a fortune and are quick to fit. Then you get a guaranteed nice-to-use clutch.

    cheers


    Rob
    The less one interacts with rude, ignorant, critical and argumentative members. The more peaceful life becomes.

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! TassieExec's Avatar
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    Default 505 GTi intermittent acceleration problem

    Hi Kaye
    I would also replace the the spigot bearing, I always do so because they are very cheap and that way you are certain that everything is done right. the cheapest way is to wait until you pull the gearbox or motor out and then take out the old spigot bearing and take it to a bearing supply place, this is usually much cheaper than buying one through normal suppliers.
    Hope this helps
    Neil

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! James S's Avatar
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    Hi Kaye,

    What a pain about having to do the clutch after spending money on the brakes and exhaust already - especially as you are looking to sell the car soon. In any case, while the motor is out, you could also look at replacing the rear motor crankshaft oil seal, and possibly the one on the gearbox main shaft. The seals are cheap.

    James

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts okalford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James S View Post
    Hi Kaye,

    What a pain about having to do the clutch after spending money on the brakes and exhaust already - especially as you are looking to sell the car soon. In any case, while the motor is out, you could also look at replacing the rear motor crankshaft oil seal, and possibly the one on the gearbox main shaft. The seals are cheap.

    James
    Thanks James and others. I’ve got the new clutch sorted and fitted now. I took all the advice and got the seals, flywheel bearing, clutch fork etc done as well. As it happens the fork was in very poor shape. The clutch had been going for a while, just ask Roger Wilkinson who drove it about two years ago and estimated it had about a month left!

    It drives so much better now and is so much more responsive; I had not realized how bad it was. It might pay itself off in the saving on petrol!

    Sadly James I had a front end crash in it last year and it wasn't repaired that well. It looks ok but the word is the chassis may be twisted. So it might be going to the wreckers next. For now I only need it for around town so will keep it on the road a little longer. To be honest I have no idea what I’d want to replace it with…a 504 maybe!



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  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! James S's Avatar
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    Default Kaye's 505

    Hi Kaye,

    I was wondering what had happened to your car. Great that you have sorted it all out and that it drives so much better. That's a shame about the potential chassis problem. Have you had it looked at properly? How do you know that it is bent? Knowing this for sure could save you from just letting it go to the wreckers and losing out on a sale if it isn't bent, which could help fund getting a decent next car (yeah, get a 504! - I have one as well as a 505GTI manual wagon by the way).

    Cheers,
    James

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okalford View Post
    Thanks James and others. I’ve got the new clutch sorted and fitted now. I took all the advice and got the seals, flywheel bearing, clutch fork etc done as well. As it happens the fork was in very poor shape. The clutch had been going for a while, just ask Roger Wilkinson who drove it about two years ago and estimated it had about a month left!

    It drives so much better now and is so much more responsive; I had not realized how bad it was. It might pay itself off in the saving on petrol!

    Sadly James I had a front end crash in it last year and it wasn't repaired that well. It looks ok but the word is the chassis may be twisted. So it might be going to the wreckers next. For now I only need it for around town so will keep it on the road a little longer. To be honest I have no idea what I’d want to replace it with…a 504 maybe!



    .
    Why don't you re-visit the idea of repairing what you have?

    You have done some major works.

    It may be worth looking at how bad the chassis is and having it fixed.

    If the car drives OK the chassis damage is probably quite minor.

    It can often be a case of knowing all about what you already have and not knowing about what you will purchase.
    The less one interacts with rude, ignorant, critical and argumentative members. The more peaceful life becomes.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Hi Kaye,

    I would do the clutch fork because they are (or were last time) less than $50. If you are unlucky enough to break one the whole engine or gearbox has to come out again. If the GTI is the same as the XN make sure the clutch fork pivot point is well greased and rubber seal doover is properly placed.

    Yes, it has happened to me, the pivot area of the fork fell out, due to lack of lubrication, on a 404 shortly after replacing a clutch. That was in the late 70's and I still remember the hassle.

    I've never replaced a spigot bush, but it's a good idea to clean and re-grease the one that is installed and to check the condition of seal.

    It's also a good time to look at clutch hydraulics. Seal kits for the master and slave cylinders are not worth a fortune and are quick to fit. Then you get a guaranteed nice-to-use clutch.

    cheers


    Rob
    There is no spigot - it is a roller /ball bearing. I would replace everything as these are a pig to do - much much harder and more knuckle skimming than with an XN1 engine. You'll need a full day and a mechanically minded mate as well as a hoist to do it properly.

    Buy my nice 92 red wagon instead!!!
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