504/505 diesel questions
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  1. #1
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    Default 504/505 diesel questions

    Hi Guys,

    I live on King Island most of the year where fuel is currently running at 1.85 a litre for both diesel and unleaded.

    We have three kids under 4 and a half and so have needed a big car to fit three car seats in, a so have our falcon wagon down here. The trouble is that with clocking up 500k a week, that running are killing us.

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    I am looking at an alternative vehicle that can still hold 3 kids and car seats, cope with the rough roads down here, is simple for self maintainance and gives better than average ecconomy. It does not have to be fast or flash, but does need to be tough.

    I dont want to spend a fortune as the salt air down here kills cars and I expect only to get 2 years out of the car prior to us returning and we will sell it on down here if still going.

    I have owned a 404, 504ti and 504gl as well as currently owning a renault virage, so I am well aware of the basic deal with pugs. I have also owned diesel landcruisers so am ok with diesels. I just dont know much re peugeot diesels!

    My dream car for here would be a 504 7 seater wagon gld. I might be waiting a long time for one though. 505 SRDT's seem more regular in popping up, and a manual wagon would also be good, but I am wondering about the extra complexity given that I dont really need the power. A plain old 504 gld would be OK if I could get 3 slim car seats accross the back.

    Would love to hear peoples opinions on the best way to go. Also open to other suggestions re vehicles. I have considered a merc 300d wagon as well! Information on the ecconomy I can expect from a gld or srdt would be appreciated - its all open country roads down here.

    Cheers

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! tomb's Avatar
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    I don't think you will find a diesel 505 SW, they do exist but the ones in Oz are home conversions. There is a 505 Series 1 auto SRDT for sale on Carsales, in Vic, ( nothing to do with me). Would seem perfect for King Island. You'll get better than 800klm to the tank. I think its a one owner which the best scenario for seconhand cars.

    The low sulphur diesel has eaten throug the seals on the all the diesel pumps on cars from the 80's, just make sure the bosch pump has had it seals done, (expensive to have done)stock up on oil filters, change interval by the book is 5000klms, but you can push that out a bit, make sure the cooling system is in A1 condition, and its a happy starter with little smoke exhaust on both start up and when warm.

    Tom

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldnago View Post
    Hi Guys,

    I live on King Island most of the year where fuel is currently running at 1.85 a litre for both diesel and unleaded.

    We have three kids under 4 and a half and so have needed a big car to fit three car seats in, a so have our falcon wagon down here. The trouble is that with clocking up 500k a week, that running are killing us.

    I am looking at an alternative vehicle that can still hold 3 kids and car seats, cope with the rough roads down here, is simple for self maintainance and gives better than average ecconomy. It does not have to be fast or flash, but does need to be tough.

    I dont want to spend a fortune as the salt air down here kills cars and I expect only to get 2 years out of the car prior to us returning and we will sell it on down here if still going.

    I have owned a 404, 504ti and 504gl as well as currently owning a renault virage, so I am well aware of the basic deal with pugs. I have also owned diesel landcruisers so am ok with diesels. I just dont know much re peugeot diesels!

    My dream car for here would be a 504 7 seater wagon gld. I might be waiting a long time for one though. 505 SRDT's seem more regular in popping up, and a manual wagon would also be good, but I am wondering about the extra complexity given that I dont really need the power. A plain old 504 gld would be OK if I could get 3 slim car seats accross the back.

    Would love to hear peoples opinions on the best way to go. Also open to other suggestions re vehicles. I have considered a merc 300d wagon as well! Information on the ecconomy I can expect from a gld or srdt would be appreciated - its all open country roads down here.

    Cheers
    I have a 406 diesel wagon and a 505 turbo diesel and a 3.9 isuzu diesel Land Rover County (seats nine legally). I have had 240d Benz 123 chassis and I reckon these cars might well be suitable for what you want. The 300d wagon (similar chassis to my old 240d) is an awesome car- recognised universally as such. Personally, I would prefer a 505 diesel wagon but hens teeth and rockinghorse (...) are definitely thicker on the ground than these cars.

    If you look for a 300d wagon (they do come up) ,just make sure that the beautiful Bosch inline injector pump has had its seals done and watch out for the rear load levelling shocks. Be prepared to do periodic maintenance. They rust too (sills), but they are truly tough- just as tough as 70's & 80's 504/505 Peugeot. I would say stronger in some respects (kill me , I'm on a French car forum saying this).

    I don't know what your road and distance conditions are like doing 500km p/week on King Island. A daggy old VN commodore five speed manual will return good mileage under certain circumstances. My Land Rover would return just over 12 days in those conditions on a full 70 litre tank in whatever conditions. A Discovery TDi will do similar- but their engines are weak. At the end of the day, it can be a fine line between the French and Germans in terms of choice- but the 300d 123 chassis (1976-1986) wagon is probably getting up there given what you seem to be after- and these cars can be found- unlike a 505/504 diesel wagon. . Look for a 300d with the Goldy manual slide sunroof. Its a gem.
    HtH (hope this helps)
    Cheers
    steu

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by svengali0 View Post
    I have a 406 diesel wagon and a 505 turbo diesel and a 3.9 isuzu diesel Land Rover County (seats nine legally). I have had 240d Benz 123 chassis and I reckon these cars might well be suitable for what you want. The 300d wagon (similar chassis to my old 240d) is an awesome car- recognised universally as such. Personally, I would prefer a 505 diesel wagon but hens teeth and rockinghorse (...) are definitely thicker on the ground than these cars.

    If you look for a 300d wagon (they do come up) ,just make sure that the beautiful Bosch inline injector pump has had its seals done and watch out for the rear load levelling shocks. Be prepared to do periodic maintenance. They rust too (sills), but they are truly tough- just as tough as 70's & 80's 504/505 Peugeot. I would say stronger in some respects (kill me , I'm on a French car forum saying this).

    I don't know what your road and distance conditions are like doing 500km p/week on King Island. A daggy old VN commodore five speed manual will return good mileage under certain circumstances. My Land Rover would return just over 12 days in those conditions on a full 70 litre tank in whatever conditions. A Discovery TDi will do similar- but their engines are weak. At the end of the day, it can be a fine line between the French and Germans in terms of choice- but the 300d 123 chassis (1976-1986) wagon is probably getting up there given what you seem to be after- and these cars can be found- unlike a 505/504 diesel wagon. . Look for a 300d with the Goldy manual slide sunroof. Its a gem.
    HtH (hope this helps)
    Cheers
    steu
    Thats great information, thanks heaps. The eb falcon we have here has done 400,000 and while still pulling strong, it gives about 13 litres per 100. Part of the issue down here is that its all winding rounds where the auto hunts between the lock up overdrive and third. I think I would maybe get 11 in a freeway situation.

    Having driven a 504 all around Australia, including Ballarat to Birdsville in three days, I love the 504's ability to soak up punishment and its good ground clearance (14 inch light truck tyres and raised rear springs made it unstoppable on outback roads). The conditions down here are similar to rough country roads. A lot of dirt roads once you want to go somewhere other than from the link between the two main towns.

    Most cars down here are duel can diesel utes, mixed in with cheap jap cars which are usually small. There are literally millions of Ksangaroo's down here (actually wallaby's but the locals call them Kangaroos), and you will hit one if you drive at night, so most cars have damage or a bull bar.

    The 300d was what I was looking at for space, unless I could get a wagon pug, but it would seem t this rate a 7 seat discovery tdi could be the easiest to get and the 4wd would be handy.

    What milage can I expect from the 300d?

  5. #5
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    You can expect around 600km to 700km per tank in a 300d. Fuel additive can add to this cost but it does improve the combustion process in terms of more extensive burn characteristics for the quantity injected at each stroke. Be careful about a discovery TDi. The later series one (300 motor, R380 gearbox) is probably better bet- but cylinder heads on these things are pretty shocking, even when the car has a history of careful ownership- even when the head is 'reconditioned'- they still just 'go' almost for no apparent reason. I used to think the old 504 two litre cyclinder heads were bad if you didn't make sure it's water was entirely contaminant free, demineralised- but these have nothing on the rover 300 TDi. For outright strength, the benz 300d is an excellent bet but they do need periodic maintenance. The 504/505 diesels tend to need only oil & filter changes and similar attention. For some reason, the benz engines need adjustments (valve train related) from time to time. The later 300 diesels (six cylinder with a bosch rotary pump, timing belt) in the 124 chassis are bulletproof and much nicer, perhaps not as strong as the older five cyclinder engines but nearly so. But these are quite rare- and no wagons here in Au. As much as I would like to recommend the 406 diesels, they tend to be not as strong as the older technology cars- and ground clearance is an issue as well...(absolutely no water crossings above three or so inches- and then at a crawl pace). The later cars will of course return phenomenal fuel economy (>1000km per tank). Hilux diesels are kind of ok strength wise- head issues as well, but these cars are truly shocking to drive, and the surf is better drive wise, but they should be avoided entirely for a host of reasons. Most ex owners have their horror stories that repeat with tiring intensity. Perhaps a 505 GTi wagon might be the best compromise? They aren't excellent on fuel- but they're strong and nice to drive, tough and practical. Most people around here seem to be getting around +500km per tank. This is still going to equate to about $130 per week given your fuel prices down there through.
    decisions decisions

    HTH
    Cheers
    Steu

  6. #6
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    I chased up the SRDT that was for sale in vic and it turns out it is owned by someone I know. Its an auto, but seems to be a perfecrt for what we need. I would keep an eye out for the parts to convert to manual, either 4 or 5 speed.

    Does anyone know if there is anything tricky re converting from an auto to a manual sedan. I am assuming I would need the bellhousing, pedal assembly, clutch parts, gearbox and maybe a tailshaft and housing. Is that about right.

    My only issue is whether I can fit three slim carseats accross the back. Does anyone have any experience?

    I am hopeful that I can return around 9l per 100k consistently with a well tunned SRTD on winding country roads. Is that about right?

    Any info appreciated again.

  7. #7
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    No probs fitting three kids across the back of my 505GTi or even my smaller 406.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldnago View Post
    I am hopeful that I can return around 9l per 100k consistently with a well tunned SRTD on winding country roads. Is that about right?
    I am getting about 8l/100km from my 505 SRDT so far, and it hasn't been services yet. That's from fairly hard driving in a very windy and hilly country area. Fitting 3 kids in the back no problem. The boot is actually pretty huge too.

    My other car is a 505 GTI wagon so my feedback would be relevant to your situation - whilst we love the wagon for all the seats and the massive boot, it's using 13l/100km in the same conditions so we are seriously thinking about selling it and getting a trailer to increase the carrying capacity of the sedan on the fairly rare occasions we actually need that much space. Obviously the 8 seats sometimes come in handy when we have other kids visiting and so a diesel wagon would be the perfect vehicle but they just aren't available.

    My neighbour has a mercedes 300D wagon (7 seats) - it's not as economical as the 505 SRDT but it's an auto and also of course quite a bit bigger. He has also had all sorts of dramas with it - I think in order to get a good example you need to pay quite a lot more money.

    Cheers,

    Thom.
    Goonengerry 505


  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! tomb's Avatar
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    I think you will be suprised at the performance of the 3 speed auto SRDT. From memory of lost threads they were suprisingly quick. (I recall seeing one in Mantello's in the 80's with factory fitted cruise control).

    I doubt that the cost of putting in a 5 speed gear box BA10/5 or even the earlier BA7/5 would be worth it. You will need to be doing a lot of KLms before you break even. I am sure if you drive it quietly the 9 litres per hundred could be attainable.

    Best to speak with 504Freak (Paris Jansen) if you do want to go done the conversion road. He has done 504 conversions and he may well have a suitable gear box amongst his kit.

  10. #10
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    I was looking at a conversion simply because I would prefer a manual, but I am not to stressed. The auto will be fine in the short term.

  11. #11
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    Default Kids seat fitting

    The seats will have to be ultra slim.
    We have tried the same and found a jamup.
    The measurement between the arm rests is in a 505 is 1290mm, and an extra 120mm is available if the seats do not push against the armrests or the armrests are removed.

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