Flooded 406 diesel
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  1. #1
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Default Flooded 406 diesel

    Last night coming home I got court in a flood in my 406 STDT.

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    The water was deeper than I thought and the air intake is surprising low and it sucked up a mouthful of water and stoped.

    I tried to start it and it just hydrauliced and locked up, after a while the water drain or got cranked out the exhaust valve and it started on 3 cylinders and its rattling very loudly like a noisy tappet or lifter or what ever they have.

    I drove it home and it seemed to run better as it got warm but the rattle persisted.

    It started straight away the morning and I drove it to work and it seems to perform nearly as good as it did, still a slight misfire but the loud rattle is still there. I'm going to pull the air filter off and blow it all out and hopefully it come good but this rattle concerns me.

    It sounds like no oil to the top on the engine but how water got into the oil is strange.

    Have I done any damage?

    By the way, the water was about 30 cm deep, I didn't think it would stop a diesel.
    David Cavanagh

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Cavanagh View Post
    Last night coming home I got court in a flood in my 406 STDT.

    The water was deeper than I thought and the air intake is surprising low and it sucked up a mouthful of water and stoped.

    I tried to start it and it just hydrauliced and locked up, after a while the water drain or got cranked out the exhaust valve and it started on 3 cylinders and its rattling very loudly like a noisy tappet or lifter or what ever they have.

    I drove it home and it seemed to run better as it got warm but the rattle persisted.

    It started straight away the morning and I drove it to work and it seems to perform nearly as good as it did, still a slight misfire but the loud rattle is still there. I'm going to pull the air filter off and blow it all out and hopefully it come good but this rattle concerns me.

    It sounds like no oil to the top on the engine but how water got into the oil is strange.

    Have I done any damage?

    By the way, the water was about 30 cm deep, I didn't think it would stop a diesel.
    I reckon bent conrod, and destroyed big end.
    Graham

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    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    I reckon bent conrod, and destroyed big end.
    Graham
    God I hope not. It still runs on 4 cylinders, just misses sometimes.
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    Doesn't sound promising... The miss might be because that piston is now not "timed" correctly due to its bent rod.

    Belly full of water, a hydraulic lockup and then clattering very rarely has a happy ending...

    Sounds like Chris needs to be taught how to change of diesels

  5. #5
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    A teacher at Cooma TAFE once drove our Mazda 19 seat bus through a "puddle" as he described it. It sucked up a gutful as the airfilter was low down. Bent at least one conrod and required an engine rebuild - on a six month old vehicle. I think as it was described to me, as diesel is compression ignition there is even less playroom than a petrol engine.
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    1000+ Posts cav91's Avatar
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    Sounds like Chris needs to be taught how to change of diesels [/QUOTE]

    I can do that I just dont want to!
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    Have a look at Luthier's thread 406 disaster

    cheers Pete

    I am gunna get another 403 on the road........one day

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    start looking for new rods

    you have at least one bent maybe more

    diesels+water don't mix
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  9. #9
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    my old 305 diesel had the air inlet right at the top of the grill, I think on top of the slam panel
    it seemed to suck air in through the gap between the bonnet and the grill
    it must have been 2 feet off the the ground
    I once drove it through a river so deep that it started to float but no harm was done to the engine

    On my 607 HDI the air inlet is behind the headlamp, and it's much lower. I think it's a backwards design step

  10. #10
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Yes its sounding like its coming apart. Con rod bending competition.

    In my job I should know better so I've got no one to blame but myself but I've been driving Pugs most of my life and I'm so used to high air intakes I just didn't give it a thought.
    I remember driving our 505 through a flooded creek that 4WD's were having second thoughts about and the old Pug just didn't care that water was over the sills.
    As a Peugeot driver I'm just not use to worrying about these things and being a diesel it would be even better.
    My brother keeps pointing out that the newer the car the worse the car.

    I'll go to bed tonight and pray to the Peugeot God that a smashed up low KM STDT comes up for auction next week, prefere a stat write off.
    David Cavanagh

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    Not quite the same, but I recall a C5 that would drive OK, but wouldn't run smoothly, especially at idle. When the engine was eventually dismantled, it became apparent that the pistons didn't all protrude above the block face equally. The difference was only very slightly out of the variance between cylinders allowed in the specifications, but it did turn out to have two slightly bent rods. When you see how heavy the conrods are in that engine, you would also want to check the crank for damage if a conrod is bent.

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    Default Do a compression test

    Quote Originally Posted by David Cavanagh View Post
    Last night coming home I got court in a flood in my 406 STDT.

    The water was deeper than I thought and the air intake is surprising low and it sucked up a mouthful of water and stoped.

    I tried to start it and it just hydrauliced and locked up, after a while the water drain or got cranked out the exhaust valve and it started on 3 cylinders and its rattling very loudly like a noisy tappet or lifter or what ever they have.

    I drove it home and it seemed to run better as it got warm but the rattle persisted.

    It started straight away the morning and I drove it to work and it seems to perform nearly as good as it did, still a slight misfire but the loud rattle is still there. I'm going to pull the air filter off and blow it all out and hopefully it come good but this rattle concerns me.

    It sounds like no oil to the top on the engine but how water got into the oil is strange.

    Have I done any damage?

    By the way, the water was about 30 cm deep, I didn't think it would stop a diesel.

    Hi David.
    Sorry to hear about this. Perhaps pay someone to do a compression test or buy a kit and perform this yourself as the kit is useful to have.
    Hope you find other than a bent rod
    Also, I would avoid using the car. If a rod or two is bent, the big end journal can indeed be damaged further through misalignment/differential forces from the combustion process.

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    I had a closer look at my 607
    here are some pics of the inlet
    it doesn't seem so bad
    I have heard stories of people driving through a deep puddle and hydraulic locking them but I'm not sure how


  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by svengali0 View Post
    Hi David.
    Sorry to hear about this. Perhaps pay someone to do a compression test or buy a kit and perform this yourself as the kit is useful to have.
    Hope you find other than a bent rod
    Also, I would avoid using the car. If a rod or two is bent, the big end journal can indeed be damaged further through misalignment/differential forces from the combustion process.
    I'm not going to worry about a comp test because it runs on 4 cyls so it must have compression, from what we can work out is that its internal so it has to come apart anyway. This engine is approaching 500,000km so compression will be down anyway.

    We think that the crank bent and pulled the piston over with it and its broken the skirt off the piston, that would explain the knocking sound and it still having compression.

    I'm not driving it because I think its a hand grinade at the moment.

    Okay, repair procedure. I need another motor, con rods are very hard almost impossible to find so another STDT engine is the go, or a short motor, something rebuildable.

    I have a couple of high km 406 HDi engines, one of them ran quite well but is to smoky to sell so its ideal to rebuild.

    So, can I use my STDT head on a HDi block?
    I realise there only 2 litres compared to my 2.1 but I figured a healthy 2litre must be better than a worn out 2.1
    David Cavanagh

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    That sucks David.
    As someone mentioned I just went through that drama with my 406 and the conrod was very bent.
    I also decided not to attempt to rebuild as the crank is likely bent as well.
    With the replacement I have modified the airbox so instead of sucking air from below the left headlight it comes from just below the bonnet at the firewall. I did this by modifying the lower section of the airbox. I turned it around so the thicker/deeper section faced to the rear, I blocked the outlet in the bottom and cut a new one in the back, then fitted the hose which had come from the bottom, siliconed it well into the box so now it feeds in around the master cylinder/abs system. I'll post some pics tomorrow.
    I live up a bush track with 5 creek crossings so this is an ongoing hassle for me. I just can't wait to get my 203 on the road as I will make that my main car. It has an oilbath filter right up under the bonnet and as we know they are suitable for thrashing[carefully driving] through wet and muddy conditions.

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    look at this
    http://www.christiantena.net/motor/p...i/engines.html
    it's everything I know so if you know more then let me know and I'll fill it in

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dieselnutjob View Post
    look at this
    http://www.christiantena.net/motor/p...i/engines.html
    it's everything I know so if you know more then let me know and I'll fill it in


    Thanks for that, I think I'm reading it right.

    Mine is 2179cc with a bore and stroke of 85 x 96

    The HDi is 1996cc and 85 x 88

    Looks like if the bore is the same then my head should fit.

    I realise its going to be a suck it and see job but I'm hoping someone has some experience in interchanging diesels.
    David Cavanagh

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    That sucks David.
    As someone mentioned I just went through that drama with my 406 and the conrod was very bent.
    I also decided not to attempt to rebuild as the crank is likely bent as well.
    With the replacement I have modified the airbox so instead of sucking air from below the left headlight it comes from just below the bonnet at the firewall. I did this by modifying the lower section of the airbox. I turned it around so the thicker/deeper section faced to the rear, I blocked the outlet in the bottom and cut a new one in the back, then fitted the hose which had come from the bottom, siliconed it well into the box so now it feeds in around the master cylinder/abs system. I'll post some pics tomorrow.
    I live up a bush track with 5 creek crossings so this is an ongoing hassle for me. I just can't wait to get my 203 on the road as I will make that my main car. It has an oilbath filter right up under the bonnet and as we know they are suitable for thrashing[carefully driving] through wet and muddy conditions.

    Yes I'll be looking at doing something similar, I don't have 5 creek crossings to get through but I'd like to have a car that will go where I want it to go.
    Still, I fear it'll take more than redesigning the air intake to make it as good as the old 505GR.

    Funny isn't it, my 403 has done a documented 1 million miles ( I can proove this) and still starts first kick and nothing, not even bad weather will stop it, the 406 breaks without leaving the highway. Thats progress
    David Cavanagh

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Cavanagh View Post
    Thanks for that, I think I'm reading it right.

    Mine is 2179cc with a bore and stroke of 85 x 96

    The HDi is 1996cc and 85 x 88

    Looks like if the bore is the same then my head should fit.

    I realise its going to be a suck it and see job but I'm hoping someone has some experience in interchanging diesels.
    Who knows where the compression will be? This would be critical with Diesels I would have thought.
    Don't bother, 406s are cheap as chips (someone is dismantling his V6 D9, see parts for sale, as no one wants to buy it) just buy another car.

    The trouble with cars is that new car buyers have no idea and that is the clientel that the car makers are catering for.
    The engineers don't really get a say on what is made nowadays.
    Graham

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Cavanagh View Post
    ....... its going to be a suck it and see job
    Hmm, isn't that how all your trouble started???

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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    Who knows where the compression will be? This would be critical with Diesels I would have thought.
    Don't bother, 406s are cheap as chips (someone is dismantling his V6 D9, see parts for sale, as no one wants to buy it) just buy another car.

    The trouble with cars is that new car buyers have no idea and that is the clientel that the car makers are catering for.
    The engineers don't really get a say on what is made nowadays.
    Graham
    Your right Graham but the problem is that I need a large wagon and because of the kms I do it must be economical and this is the only thing I know of that will carry everything and still do 1000km on a 70 litre tank.

    A 405 wagon is to small, we put 2 505 fuel tanks in the back of Basil Van Dongen's 405 wagon last night and filled it, in the 406 you'd loose them (well almost)

    What else is cheap and meets those requirements and still is nice to drive?

    I'm trying to hold out hoping a damaged STDT will come up and I'll just swap engines but I need to do something quickly.

    Currently driving Chris's (my son) Mi16, am I getting old, it's noisy, rough riding, cramped, and compared to the 406 quite thirsty.
    David Cavanagh

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    there is a white wagon for sale in SA for $6.5k

    i know if i had that money not doing anything i'd buy that car as i could do with a good wagon

    i have figured it is cheaper for me to go to sydney once a month with trailer and load up with stock than it is to freight the stuff to me but at the moment not being flush with funds i have to make do

    i'm sure that wagon is also an STDT so you could use it and strip yours for spares
    3 x '78 604 SL

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    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  23. #23
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo View Post
    there is a white wagon for sale in SA for $6.5k

    i know if i had that money not doing anything i'd buy that car as i could do with a good wagon

    i have figured it is cheaper for me to go to sydney once a month with trailer and load up with stock than it is to freight the stuff to me but at the moment not being flush with funds i have to make do

    i'm sure that wagon is also an STDT so you could use it and strip yours for spares
    Yes I've looked at that, $6.5k plus freight plus rego and RWC puts it up around $8k or more and I can fix it for less than that (I hope)
    That does sound like a good car thow.
    David Cavanagh

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  24. #24
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    The air cleaner seems nice and high on the XM too... just like the 605 .... However ... where does the damn cold air pickup drop down to ?? Probably under the front headlights. It would be incredibly easy to give it a gutfull of water if you tried crossing a flooded road.

    The diesels lock up really easily, just before i did the head gasket on the one here, it only took a tiny amount of weepage to lock up one of the pots ... a few goes on the starter pushed it out the exhaust valve though.

    Why the hell didn't you put the suspension on "high" if you decided to to take the car swimming ?? I've done that before in the XM (just incase the water was deeper than I expected).

    The CX is rather low too, the old DS's could happily plod along (if you went slow) through just about any reasonable depth of water. If you hit the water fast the radiator fan would cop a gutfulful of water and drown the ignition system system. Best to open the zipper on the radiator shrowd so it couldn't suck water. The difference is there air intake is a "hot air" intake almost by design.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post

    Why the hell didn't you put the suspension on "high" if you decided to to take the car swimming ?? I've done that before in the XM (just incase the water was deeper than I expected).


    seeya,
    Shane L.


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