207 XT HDi warped brake rotor
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default 207 XT HDi warped brake rotor

    Hi all,
    I have a 2008 207 XT HDi 1.6 L which has only done 25,000 clicks It has already developed a warped front disc. Is this common at this low K's? I haven't driven it hard and always brake back with gears. Am a bit disappointed as it is the first Peugeot I have owned. It should be covered by warranty really but they won't have a bar of it!


    Any ideas would be appreciated,
    Cheers,
    Nic

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    This type of issue of premature brake rotor wear on newer model cars does seem to be increasing,
    I dont think it is unreasonable to expect the brake rotors to last longer than the tyres.

    Jo

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! Morpheus's Avatar
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    Default Brake rotors

    Get used to it! A common problem on many new car makes - especially Peugeot. When I bought My 307 it had done 30,000 k's and had new rotors fitted at 28,000!!
    I had a couple of company BA Falcons which needed the rotors skimmed at every 15,000km service. No-one seems to be able to give a reason why it happens with some makes of car and not others. I've given up wondering and now just live with it!



    2011 Peugeot 207 HDi Touring Outdoor

    2004 Peugeot 206 XT 1.6 Manual.

    Past: 1953 Thames 100E van, 1966 Austin 1800, 1972 XA Falcon V8, 1973 Peugeot 504,
    1984 Mitsubishi Colt, Holden HX Kingswood, 1983 Toyota Corolla XX, 1988 Toyota Corolla 4WD, 2007 Peugeot 307XSE. + various company Falcauriodores.

    Next: 2007 Peugeot 407HDi Coupe

  4. #4
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    Are you sure the discs are warped and it's not pad deposits that could be removed with a few very hard stops?
    1992 205 Si
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  5. #5
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    I dont think any car place consider disc brakes a warrany item.

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts bluey504's Avatar
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    Default Another lost thread...

    Prior to GoDaddy going 'guts up' for us Aussie Frogs quite a debate happened regarding rapid brake rotor/pad wear.
    The summation is that new cars are heavier than before, a 504 is much lighter than a 308, and technology has improved to a point where we now demand levels of comfort/grip/braking and performance vastly superior to cars of the very recent past.
    This is a double edged sword in that consumable items on the cars now wear at a far greater rate. Brakes and tyres are the front line and they now wear out quickly.
    You either can accept this and use OEM grade material or upgrade the components to a more lasting combination.
    Try Langers suggestion of getting the brakes really hot and give them a gradual cool down, it may address the situation or at the very least you'll learn how much your brakes will take. It's now at a very high level.
    I'll leave with this fact; Tyres on Commodore/Falcon sporty type saloons last at best 16-17-18000 km's and as Morpheus has written rotor's are skimmed every 15000 km (effective life max 45000 km or less). And as most are company vehicles 'could' fit it to this scenario it's the tax payer, directly or in-directly that pays the bill!

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Morpheus's Avatar
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    I should also note that my current company aurion which I have had since new in 2008, has now racked up 110,000 k's and the brakes are still original. I get nowhere near the brake dust buildup on the mags that I do on my 307. This leads me to suspect that the aurions pads are much 'harder'. The 307 brakes are very 'grabby' requiring very little pedal pressure to get heaps of braking power, which leads me to suspect the pads and/or rotors are 'soft'(er).
    Another phenomenon is that the aurion gets brake shudder only under braking from high speed (say 140 - 230kph). The shudder dissappears after the rotors cool off, and stays dissappeared (until another session of high speed work).
    With my co. falcons, the shuddering just progrssively got worse and worse. I even tried using the handbrake whenever stopped to prevent hot pads being left in contact with the rotors, but this made no difference to brake longevity (shortevity). So I have read all the theory about pads and their requirement for bedding in and how modern brakes are different from olden days etc. etc. but it still doesn't explain why Toyota brake rotors last >100,000 k's and Peugeot ones 20,000 and Falcon ones about 50,000. It must be an issue with pad material, beacuse I think they alluse pretty much the same rotor manufacturers.
    My mate in NZ has had a 307 for years and he told me they gobble rotors, and he fits Brembo rotors to his.
    I want to know if ANYONE has found a combination of rotors/pads which actually last - (as long as Toyota brakes).



    2011 Peugeot 207 HDi Touring Outdoor

    2004 Peugeot 206 XT 1.6 Manual.

    Past: 1953 Thames 100E van, 1966 Austin 1800, 1972 XA Falcon V8, 1973 Peugeot 504,
    1984 Mitsubishi Colt, Holden HX Kingswood, 1983 Toyota Corolla XX, 1988 Toyota Corolla 4WD, 2007 Peugeot 307XSE. + various company Falcauriodores.

    Next: 2007 Peugeot 407HDi Coupe

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! Morpheus's Avatar
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    Default

    Also, my aurion weighs a hell of a lot more than my 307 so I dont believe vehicle weight is the issue here.



    2011 Peugeot 207 HDi Touring Outdoor

    2004 Peugeot 206 XT 1.6 Manual.

    Past: 1953 Thames 100E van, 1966 Austin 1800, 1972 XA Falcon V8, 1973 Peugeot 504,
    1984 Mitsubishi Colt, Holden HX Kingswood, 1983 Toyota Corolla XX, 1988 Toyota Corolla 4WD, 2007 Peugeot 307XSE. + various company Falcauriodores.

    Next: 2007 Peugeot 407HDi Coupe

  9. #9
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    I think it's just something diesel pugs are especially prone to, due to the heavier engine. The 307 diesel models are notorious for this.

    My 207 GTi is now at 75k and the front pads have plenty of meat left on them - they still look like new to me!

    Oh, and welcome to Nic
    Regards,

    Simon

    2018 308 GTi 2011 DS3 DSport
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    2014 208 GTi 2007 207 GTi 2004 206 GTi180 2000 206 GTi 1995 306 XT

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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    In part it is the change from asbestos pads to the modern materials.
    The cost is hard pads with good heat resistance and softer rotors that take the wear.
    Size and weight are not great factors itís the surface and friction generated by the braking force, (Old Holdenís did not suffer from short rotor life).
    That said, SWMBOs 1999 Corolla did 330,000km in ten years on the original pads and rotors, (she stops for nothing!!!!)..

    I would go for the after market rotors for the 407/307 that are made by Honeywell and a stock set of aftermarket pads from Bendix or Ferrodo. As for warping at 25,000km that seems a bit soon if driven normally, (2 pad changes and 50-100,000kms would be reasonable).
    I would press harder on the dealer to have them replaced as a warrantable item, (read the fine print).
    Also consumer laws provide for items that are of a merchantable quality, (hint, hint).
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
    2003 T5 307 HDI
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  11. #11
    Tadpole
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    Default 207 XT HDi warped brake rotor

    Hey, thanks for all of the responses guys as I didn't expect this many.

    I will try out the hard braking trick and see if it helps first. I may even get my trusty dial gauge out and check the discs as well.
    This is the first time in all of my 35 years of driving including 3 years of competitive rallying that I have ever experienced this problem.

    Has anyone out there tried cryogenically treating rotors and pads? I did some research into this and tried it out on razor blades. I now get approximately 40 or so shaves with each blade.

    It can be used to improve the life of all sorts of materials. including brass instruments.

    All the best,
    Nic

  12. #12
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    Just my 2 cents worth,

    I have a 2004 307 HDi and it went through 7 sets of rotors, (just look up letter of deamnd and write one to Peugeot to replace them, it will work, your not the first nor the last) in short the peugeot discs are either under rated or have metalurgical issues and with differntial cooling yhey will warp. Some have no issues others like me lots. Its not driving style as its my wifes car and not pushed at all.

    I have now put DBA slotted rotors on and they are every bit as good if not better and they are going fine.

    I have heard that it is a very common issue on Pugs and others of late (fords)

    Matt

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! Morpheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew View Post
    Just my 2 cents worth,

    I have a 2004 307 HDi and it went through 7 sets of rotors, (just look up letter of deamnd and write one to Peugeot to replace them, it will work, your not the first nor the last) in short the peugeot discs are either under rated or have metalurgical issues and with differntial cooling yhey will warp. Some have no issues others like me lots. Its not driving style as its my wifes car and not pushed at all.

    I have now put DBA slotted rotors on and they are every bit as good if not better and they are going fine.

    I have heard that it is a very common issue on Pugs and others of late (fords)

    Matt
    Now thats the info we're looking for Matthew. Thanks for that. So DBA rotors seem to solve the problem. My 307 had the rotors replaced by the pug dealer so will be the original crinckle cut ones. They are fine now but on 4,ooo ks old. When they ripple up I will fit DBA's and some good aftermarket pads.



    2011 Peugeot 207 HDi Touring Outdoor

    2004 Peugeot 206 XT 1.6 Manual.

    Past: 1953 Thames 100E van, 1966 Austin 1800, 1972 XA Falcon V8, 1973 Peugeot 504,
    1984 Mitsubishi Colt, Holden HX Kingswood, 1983 Toyota Corolla XX, 1988 Toyota Corolla 4WD, 2007 Peugeot 307XSE. + various company Falcauriodores.

    Next: 2007 Peugeot 407HDi Coupe

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts bluey504's Avatar
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    Good one Matthew! My Falcon suffers the endemic brake shudder and I can minimise the effect by getting them good and hot, best done with out passengers who don't get car sick.

    Have just replaced the fronts with IIRC Maxistop brand and they are better, not perfect but the rotor's are near the minimum thickness and I'm keeping an eye on them. As soon as they are rubbish or the $44 dollar pads are cactus they are getting an upgrade to RDA/DBA slotted rotors and quality pads. Tried the Bendix Kevlars on the rear and they wore out very quickly and ate the rotors by half the usable thickness in 25000 km, these were brand new slotted DBA rotor's.

    There has also been some 'talk' that some pads are leaving deposits on the discs and creating a glazing effect. This can be burnt off by, yes you guessed it, getting them good and hot. I suppose it could be called "low temperature glazing".

    Jupitertwo as you're in Melbourne try Howard Reynolds at Race Brakes in Flemington, he may have the answer or explain it better than I can.

  15. #15
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    I tried this after I replaced my Toyota with DBA. In regards the pads, I went for greenstuff to minimise dust, far toomuch on factory pads as with modern europeans. In regards pads, on the 307 there are three different caliper sets, mine was the most expensive to get pads for of course. It may pay to go to a wreckers and get the calipers for the cheaest pads. (same brand pad but cheaper)

    For what its worth unless you drive a sports car and really brake a lot then save the $ and get reasonable ones not top end things, the DBA rotors are very good, I have them now on a 306, 307 and Toyota, no regrets at all.

  16. #16
    Tadpole
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    Hi AGAIN,
    JUST AN UPDATE AS TO THE SUSPECTED WARPED ROTOR. I did some investigation about rotor warping and discovered some interesting facts.

    First of all I assumed that it would have been the front rotor that was suspect and when I had it checked by Regan motors they confirmed to me that in fact this was correct and they either needed machining or replacing. I asked whether they checked with a dial gauge or not and the answer was no which made me suspicious.

    The info I found on a rotor manufacturers page stated that if the front rotors are warped then you will feel it through the steering wheel and back rotors through the brake pedal only. Guess what? It therefore is indicating the back ones are sus in my case not the front.

    Taking the advise now from the above sites I tried applying the handbrake while driving to make to see if that would rectify the problem and it has definitely reduced the pedal bounce.

    So it pays to question what the McGoober at the service dept tries to convince you of as it normally will be the option of cost.

    Thanks again to all the help.

    Cheers,
    Nic

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! Morpheus's Avatar
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    Well done J2. Unfortunately some mechanics cant be bothered with what the actual problem is - they take the easy route of 'just replace everything in the vicinity and that should fix it'. My engineering mind wants to know what the problem really is so I can take steps to prevent it from happening again.
    I did say SOME mechanics. Most are very good and very helpful.



    2011 Peugeot 207 HDi Touring Outdoor

    2004 Peugeot 206 XT 1.6 Manual.

    Past: 1953 Thames 100E van, 1966 Austin 1800, 1972 XA Falcon V8, 1973 Peugeot 504,
    1984 Mitsubishi Colt, Holden HX Kingswood, 1983 Toyota Corolla XX, 1988 Toyota Corolla 4WD, 2007 Peugeot 307XSE. + various company Falcauriodores.

    Next: 2007 Peugeot 407HDi Coupe

  18. #18
    Tadpole
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    Default Brake discs

    Quote Originally Posted by Morpheus View Post
    Get used to it! A common problem on many new car makes - especially Peugeot. When I bought My 307 it had done 30,000 k's and had new rotors fitted at 28,000!!
    I had a couple of company BA Falcons which needed the rotors skimmed at every 15,000km service. No-one seems to be able to give a reason why it happens with some makes of car and not others. I've given up wondering and now just live with it!
    Now days wheel nuts are required to be retorqued, for Peugeot I think it is 110NM. If not discs will not warp as per the discussion, retorque and keep the disc's happy.

  19. #19
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    Obviously hitting water when really hot & hosing them while washing them[people sometime forget] will sometimes 'do the number'.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by pekay49 View Post
    Obviously hitting water when really hot & hosing them while washing them[people sometime forget] will sometimes 'do the number'.
    Also, if your car has an integrated handbrake in the rear calipers and you apply the handbrake when the brakes are hot, it can cause them to warp due to the different cooling rates.

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts driven's Avatar
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    Default Gearbox as Brake

    Quote Originally Posted by Jupitertwo View Post
    Hi all,
    I have a 2008 207 XT HDi 1.6 L which has only done 25,000 clicks It has already developed a warped front disc. Is this common at this low K's?

    I haven't driven it hard and always brake back with gears.
    Using gearbox as a brake can end up being very expensive, rotors are cheap buy comparison

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! 908HDI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jupitertwo View Post
    Hi all,
    I have a 2008 207 XT HDi 1.6 L which has only done 25,000 clicks It has already developed a warped front disc. Is this common at this low K's? I haven't driven it hard and always brake back with gears. Am a bit disappointed as it is the first Peugeot I have owned. It should be covered by warranty really but they won't have a bar of it!


    Any ideas would be appreciated,
    Cheers,
    Nic
    Replced the rotors and pads on our 207 XT Hdi Wagon at 74,000km. I have put on DBA rotors and Ferrodo pads. Both are more resiliant than Peugeot OEM but need more brake pressure. The plus is a lot less dust.

    Like most brakes, if they have not been bedded in right from new you'll only get half the life. So when you replace them, take it easy for for the first 200km.....

    The rest is down to driving style.

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    It is not unknown for the idiots at tyre dealers to "rattle" the wheel studs up far too tight and warp the brake discs! I always demand that I nip the wheel studs up myself with my own brace. The tyre dealers always look daggers at me (Plenty of people have looked daggers at me though).
    Present fleet:-
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  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! Morpheus's Avatar
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    My 207 HDi has now racked up 30,000k's and just started getting wobbly steering under brakes - at speeds over 70kph. I can feel it coming from the left front wheel.
    I checked with a local - and trusted - brake and clutch repair shop as to pricing for new pads and rotors.
    When I told him how many k's its done, he nodded and said "yeah pretty good for a euro car and much better than the local cars" (falcodores).
    I said I wanted aftermarket rotors and harder pads (thinking that the standard pads are soft and creating all that brake dust and generating lots of heat to warp the disc).
    He said "nah, the standard pads are hard as, and they wear out the rotors before the pads. You can either have hard pads and wear out rotors or soft pads and wear them out. Or get intermediates so the both wear at the same time."
    I says, I dont care I just hate the feel of warped rotors.
    Anyways, he says about 350 somolians to fit new rotors and pads. Sounds like a bargain to me.
    He also says, don't bother going for the fancy schmacy rotors and sooper dooper pads - they won't make any difference to brake performance and will only cost you a bunch more.
    Given that the 207HDi is not known as a high performance thoroughbred or going to spend much time on the racetrack and plod has seen to it with all his speed traps that I won't be treating my local road like its conrod straight, I think its a fairly safe bet to go with what the man says.



    2011 Peugeot 207 HDi Touring Outdoor

    2004 Peugeot 206 XT 1.6 Manual.

    Past: 1953 Thames 100E van, 1966 Austin 1800, 1972 XA Falcon V8, 1973 Peugeot 504,
    1984 Mitsubishi Colt, Holden HX Kingswood, 1983 Toyota Corolla XX, 1988 Toyota Corolla 4WD, 2007 Peugeot 307XSE. + various company Falcauriodores.

    Next: 2007 Peugeot 407HDi Coupe

  25. #25
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    Default My mechanic friend sees this a lot..

    Worked with a woman with an near new Accord. 10,000k service gets it back with the shudder at freeway speeds.
    Puts up with it (some women!) until the 15k service. At that time I suggest she get my friend to service. She speaks with him and asks about the shudder. From that he identifies the dealer that last did the service, he used to work there. Overtightening of the wheel nut/studs is his belief through the use of the rattle gun set too high.
    He services a few cars each w/e and has has never had a problem, he rattles up to save time then completes by hand. I'm on my third set of rotors at 253,500 ks in my 2007 307 1.6 HDi. The only time I had the shudder was a short while after a dealer service with NEW rotors...he took em off, skimmed, and all good again...

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