505 GTI tuning
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Thread: 505 GTI tuning

  1. #1
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    Default 505 GTI tuning

    How far is it possible to tune a 505 GTI engine without plugging it into a Peugeot computer? I'd like to make sure it's not running too rich...
    Any advice welcome,
    Cheers,

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    Goonengerry 505


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    Fellow Frogger! sideways_505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomevans View Post
    How far is it possible to tune a 505 GTI engine without plugging it into a Peugeot computer? I'd like to make sure it's not running too rich...
    Any advice welcome,
    Cheers,
    Yes, have you got the Haynes manual? It tells you everything. I might be able to scan it in, I'm not sure though.

    Thanks

    Hayden

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    Quote Originally Posted by sideways_505 View Post
    Yes, have you got the Haynes manual? It tells you everything. I might be able to scan it in, I'm not sure though.

    Thanks

    Hayden
    Ah, erm...yes - I guess you mean the bit where it says (Chap 3, 27.5), "Adjustment of the idle mixture is only possible using an exhaust gas analyser"? So, it's the analyser I need. Not the computer down at Peugeot HQ in Babylon, where they plug you in - is that only for fault diagnosis?
    The CO% at idle specified is 0.5 to 1.5 - which end of that spectrum represents rich, which weak?
    Goonengerry 505


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    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    From experence I would suggest the best tune, is a good service.
    In 300,000km of travel in my old GTI I never touched the timing. (the leads and rotor/cap were origional and lasted for the 531,000km I had it, (Sold to someone in Young and it was still going strong).
    The air device may need a touch of adjusting, but check that it is clean and clear first. (they tend to run rich when older). If you are getting 10-11lt/100km fuel economy on the open road, then this is about the best you will ever get....dont touch.
    As always with the SII GTIs, check for air leaks and cracked hoses, ( the cause of 90% of problems).

    Check the cold air valve for operation, (there is a stated resistance for the unit that I cant remember at the moment???/).
    Fresh plugs, fuel and air filters, 98 octane petrol, (never-never use 91, its rubbish), Lucas fuel additive and a good long hard run every now and then will do wonders.

    A clogged fuel filter may cause poor running and should be replaced every 60,000km or sooner if you are in an area with [email protected] fuel.

    Drive and enjoy.
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
    2003 T5 307 HDI
    2013 LandRover90
    Sacred cows make the best hamburger mince.
    If you run, you only die tired

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    1000+ Posts catshamlet's Avatar
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    The cold air valve and the air device, are they one and the same?



    Mike.
    Started out with nothing, still got most of it left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamma View Post
    From experence I would suggest the best tune, is a good service.
    In 300,000km of travel in my old GTI I never touched the timing. (the leads and rotor/cap were origional and lasted for the 531,000km I had it, (Sold to someone in Young and it was still going strong).
    The air device may need a touch of adjusting, but check that it is clean and clear first. (they tend to run rich when older). If you are getting 10-11lt/100km fuel economy on the open road, then this is about the best you will ever get....dont touch.
    As always with the SII GTIs, check for air leaks and cracked hoses, ( the cause of 90% of problems).

    Check the cold air valve for operation, (there is a stated resistance for the unit that I cant remember at the moment???/).
    Fresh plugs, fuel and air filters, 98 octane petrol, (never-never use 91, its rubbish), Lucas fuel additive and a good long hard run every now and then will do wonders.

    A clogged fuel filter may cause poor running and should be replaced every 60,000km or sooner if you are in an area with [email protected] fuel.

    Drive and enjoy.
    Thanks Gamma - sound advice I am sure. I will change the fuel filter and plugs I think - the rest has been done. I'm getting 13l/100km but that's 90% hard driving in the hills, wishing it was a manual - i.e using the shifter to select 3rd, and 2nd on occasion, to keep the pace up...I will have to take it on a highway run to check sometime. I always use 98 octane - but is the Lucas additive you are talking about necessary if using BP Ultimate for example?

    The quality drive is worth every cent extra spent on fuel in any case

    Thanks,
    Goonengerry 505


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    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catshamlet View Post
    The cold air valve and the air device, are they one and the same?



    Mike.
    No..
    I am refering to the air meter on the intake side, (air device) and the cold air valve is what passes for a choke in the LTronic system, (the thingy on top of the thermostate housing with a hose in, a hose out and a wire or two)..

    Lucas fuel treatment....
    http://www.lucasoil.com.au/content/view/17/30/
    Used regularly it will keep the injectors clean and the cylinders clear of coke etc, (Again, over 1/2 a million Ks traveled in both the 505GTI and an old one tonner using the stuff and it did not do any harm, (and hopefully a lot of good)).....

    13lt/100ks for an auto in the hills, exercised with gusto, is good. I would check the exhaust gasses to make sure you are not too lean.
    Check out this for a guide for what to expect. (a rough guide only).
    http://www.omitec.com/en/support/tec.../gas-analyzer/
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
    2003 T5 307 HDI
    2013 LandRover90
    Sacred cows make the best hamburger mince.
    If you run, you only die tired

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    Default Air Leaks

    Hey Gamma,

    You are right about the air leaks. In another recent thread about GTI tuning, you posted that you believed that my GTI wagon had an air leak as it was not idling that well. Well, the other day I pulled the air bellows rubber tube thing off as I had to get to the clutch master cylinder...and on the underside was a whopping great crack in it. So, you were absolutely right about the air leak. Well picked up.

    James

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    Quote Originally Posted by thomevans View Post
    How far is it possible to tune a 505 GTI engine without plugging it into a Peugeot computer? I'd like to make sure it's not running too rich...
    Any advice welcome,
    Cheers,
    All very good advice mentioned re this topic, especially re air leaks, using 98 RON fuel, good plugs etc.

    Some years ago, in the lost archives, I posted information about dispensing with (if fitted) the delay bleed capsule located between the distributor & the throttle body. Generally, all the leaded engines had these & not the unleaded engines.

    What I found was that the capsule was not only fitted upside down, but was blocked anyway. Thus, the vacuum path to the distributor Vac advance capsule was inoperative. I removed the capsule & simply fitted a standard vacuum hose from the throttle body to the distributor.

    The net result was smoother acceleration & improved fuel economy in cruise mode, due, of course, to the vac capsule now providing the scheduled ignition advance. I carried out this mod for both our 505 STI & GTi. I recall other members at the time checked & subsequently made the same changes with similar results.

    Also, don't forget the need for a cam belt change each 100k. Replace if necessary the idler pulley & water pump, and definitely replace the camshaft oil seal plus others if they are suspect. Take great care to ensure correct cam timing, as it is easy to be a tooth out which produces very ordinary performance.

    Cheers,
    K

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James S View Post
    Hey Gamma,

    You are right about the air leaks. In another recent thread about GTI tuning, you posted that you believed that my GTI wagon had an air leak as it was not idling that well. Well, the other day I pulled the air bellows rubber tube thing off as I had to get to the clutch master cylinder...and on the underside was a whopping great crack in it. So, you were absolutely right about the air leak. Well picked up.

    James
    I trust its peformance was much improved after the application of 30' of gaffer tape.

    KIMDEB is spot on with the cam belt and waterpump advice.
    Every second cam belt change a new idler pully should be installed, (yes they are costly but it every 200,000kms). I had a run of dud waterpumps so be carefull and monitor the play in the bearing, (you can always do the thermo fan conversion and get rid of the fluid coupling altogeather, (post lost in the great crash of 2010).
    The cam shaft seal is a $8-12 bit from CBC ....so dont wimp out. (get the number and buy the viton one).
    Replace all the cam belt covers, as any dirt, grit and oil getting into there will shorted its lifespan.
    Clean down the engine bay often, ("Boost degreaser by the dozen from SuperPartsBarganAuto place, @ $2 a can is cheap and easy.....it also makes opening the bonnet a bit more of a pleasure seeing a clean motor).

    If you need to replace the waterpump do the cam belt at the same time, even if it is not due....they are cheap....

    Enjoy..
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
    2003 T5 307 HDI
    2013 LandRover90
    Sacred cows make the best hamburger mince.
    If you run, you only die tired

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamma View Post
    I trust its peformance was much improved after the application of 30' of gaffer tape.

    KIMDEB is spot on with the cam belt and waterpump advice.
    Every second cam belt change a new idler pully should be installed, (yes they are costly but it every 200,000kms). I had a run of dud waterpumps so be carefull and monitor the play in the bearing, (you can always do the thermo fan conversion and get rid of the fluid coupling altogeather, (post lost in the great crash of 2010).
    The cam shaft seal is a $8-12 bit from CBC ....so dont wimp out. (get the number and buy the viton one).
    Replace all the cam belt covers, as any dirt, grit and oil getting into there will shorted its lifespan.
    Clean down the engine bay often, ("Boost degreaser by the dozen from SuperPartsBarganAuto place, @ $2 a can is cheap and easy.....it also makes opening the bonnet a bit more of a pleasure seeing a clean motor).

    If you need to replace the waterpump do the cam belt at the same time, even if it is not due....they are cheap....

    Enjoy..
    Thanks for all the advice. Yes, I did the cambelt and idler when I first bought her, as she'd done 240k and the previous owner had no idea if it had been changed at 200k. So possibly not necessary if it had been done, but not worth the risk. I will def be buying some degreaser though, and using liberally under there!
    Thanks heaps,
    Goonengerry 505


  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! James S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamma View Post
    I trust its peformance was much improved after the application of 30' of gaffer tape.
    Hi, Not yet. The car is on stands while I replace both steering rack boots (done), a dodgy tie rod end (done), the brakes hoses (done front ones), and rebuild the clutch system (in progress).

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamma View Post
    you can always do the thermo fan conversion and get rid of the fluid coupling altogeather, (post lost in the great crash of 2010).
    I remember seeing you and your car at Bill's house while this work was being done. Obviously it was a success. I might have to look into it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamma View Post
    The cam shaft seal is a $8-12 bit from CBC ....so dont wimp out. (get the number and buy the viton one).
    Replace all the cam belt covers, as any dirt, grit and oil getting into there will shorted its lifespan.
    Clean down the engine bay often, ("Boost degreaser by the dozen from SuperPartsBarganAuto place, @ $2 a can is cheap and easy.....it also makes opening the bonnet a bit more of a pleasure seeing a clean motor).
    Agreed on replacing the seals when doing the timing belt, on using the cheap cans of degreaser and on getting more pleasure from working in a clean engine bay. When I bought my wagon in July, it was leaking oil like a seive and the three front shaft oil seals were very hard and inneffective. I replaced the timing belt (as it was an unknown) and seals, and gave most of the motor and engine bay a degrease/clean. Now, no leaks from there that I can see.. The back underside of the engine still needs a degrease and while it is on stands, I will get to it.

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! tomb's Avatar
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    Default Delay bleed capsule

    Any chance for a photo of said capsule. Does it connect straight to the distributor or along the vacuum line?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomb View Post
    Any chance for a photo of said capsule. Does it connect straight to the distributor or along the vacuum line?
    No photo from me, but it's just a plastic valve in the vacuum advance line (running from the distributor to the throttle body). What you want is just a plain bit of hose in this run. Odds are, that's what you already have.

    Have fun,

    Rob.

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