Loving and introducing my 505 GTI - (& some advice needed)
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  1. #1
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    Icon7 Loving and introducing my 505 GTI - (& some advice needed)

    Hi all,
    I gave had my 505 family wagon for 4 or 5 months now and am absolutely loving her. When I first drove her I couldn't believe the handling for such a big comfy car - as good if not better than the AWD Corolla she replaced as my daily driver (thank god ). When truly pushed there is a predictable and easily correctable onset of slight oversteer, nothing untoward. Meanwhile there is masses of space for luggage and/or extra kids and their parents, and in my opinion, bags of class.
    It's taken me a while to work out the best way to drive the 4 speed auto around the hills here (and I must say manual would have been my preference, but when you're on a tight budget you can't be too choosy). Judiciously selecting 3rd/2nd to achieve the required torque seems to be the go (even 1st on our crazy driveway). I always thought autos were for cripples or non drivers, but actually it can even be quite fun, and nowhere near as slow as I had prepared myself for .
    The fuel consumption is the only worry - 90% of my driving is in the hills so I'm only returning 12l/100km. Does this seem excessive and if so is there anything I can do about it except slow down??! I'm sure it would be much more reasonable on the highway and I do fairly low km so not too worried. If money was no object a turbo diesel conversion would be the obvious solution...
    I'm running on 14" rims with 195/75 tyres and am thinking I should change to 185/70 to achieve correct original wheel diameter whilst maintaining ride quality (lots of terrible dirt roads on my itinerary...) when the time comes? Any advice welcome!
    The only things not working on the car are:
    1. Air con
    2. Climate control temperature control (previous owner, who presumably couldn't be bothered to replace the solenoid switch, has installed a tap on the heater hose so I have to raise the bonnet to turn the heater on or off ), and
    3. Ventilation direction. The latter seems to have reverted to a default limp mode subsequent to my very amateurish attempts to fiddle with it (undoing all the pressurized air pipes from the back of the switches and re-connecting - no response now from any of them ). This might represent rather clever design by Peugeot, as it now blows only cool air to my face when the heater is switched off, and adds warm air to the demist and footwell vents when heater is on, which is a workable default setting.
    I might get around to fixing any or all of these things when the bank balance is a bit more healthy.
    In summary, my new 19 year old French lady is, despite and even because of her slight eccentricities and creaks, a much loved member of the family already. And I reckon she's a bit of a looker for a cheap chic!
    Cheers,
    Thom.

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    Goonengerry 505


  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! James S's Avatar
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    Default 505 GTI wagon

    Hi Thom,

    Yeah they are great vehicles...even in average condition like mine is.... I have a 405 sedan also which just sits unused because I like driving my 505s more than the 405, despite the better fuel economy and working AC etc.

    I've got an 88 505 GTI wagon which I've also had for 4 or 5 months. Mine's a manual. Our cars sound similar in terms of condition. It drives really well generally as all shocks were replaced about 5 years ago and it is perfect for carting stuff around which I need to do (renovating).

    I probably use about 10 litres per 100km around town. 12 l/100km for an auto is probably about right. My manual STI sedan uses 11.5l/100km around town and it has a less efficient fuel injection system but is a manual and is not as heavy as a wagon. Both cars use a fair bit less on a country trip.

    I'll have to check my tyre size - don't know what is on there now excpet that it has 14 inch Amil rims.

    I have many of the parts needed to fix this beast up. I have bought some individually from my mechanic who is wrecking one of these, plus I have an SLI sedan wreck.

    I just changed the timing belt and replaced the shaft seals plus fixed another oil leak. The engine bay is looking a lot cleaner. I put in an excellent radiator also as the old one was on its way out. Bit by bit I'll improve it unless life's other priorities or a more interesting car comes along.

    Cheers,
    James

  3. #3
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    Default

    Hi James,

    Thanks for your info on fuel use - it does sound as if mine is running about right then, which is good to know.

    I have also done a bit of work under the bonnet - timing belt and idler bearing being the main thing.

    Because the car had sat around on the previous owner's driveway for several years and was only driven rarely and slowly in that time it must have had a load of sludge in the cooling fluid in the block. On my first fast long run the water pump seal failed. Then, having replaced the pump two hoses failed on the next run - at this point we realised the radiator was blocked. Of course, all the sludge had been loosoned on that first fast drive, blocked the radiator and the increased pressure blew the pump seal, which was the weakest component in the system....and so on. Finally a mechanical clean of the radiator sorted out the problem.
    Goonengerry 505


  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! tomb's Avatar
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    Default tyre size

    Thom you could change to 185/80 this will improve fuel usage with a reduction in acceleration. I could be mistaken but have seen some wagons and diesels 505's riding on 195/90 on 14" great for long distance touring and will improve your fuel economy with the speedo being a little inaccurate. Thanos has these error percentages down pat so he might say something.

    With the ventilation problems I could be mistaken but i don't think there is a default position. It's just not woking properly. The first thing to check is the vaccum line, is it connected properly, no breaks in the line and is there vaccum . I know the sliding fan switch dies on these but not familiar with the push buttons not working when you have sufficient vaccum.

    There was some good threads by Alan S on A/C problems not sure if they were lost in the crash, but the compressor will be siezed and or the seals have all failed on it plus a few other likely failures, but in both 505's they can't cope with the a/c on in extreme heat or suburban driving. If you are not going to need it I'd be taking all the gear out to improve the air flow. Cheers

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomevans View Post
    Hi all,
    I gave had my 505 family wagon for 4 or 5 months now and am absolutely loving her. When I first drove her I couldn't believe the handling for such a big comfy car - as good if not better than the AWD Corolla she replaced as my daily driver (thank god ). When truly pushed there is a predictable and easily correctable onset of slight oversteer, nothing untoward. Meanwhile there is masses of space for luggage and/or extra kids and their parents, and in my opinion, bags of class.
    It's taken me a while to work out the best way to drive the 4 speed auto around the hills here (and I must say manual would have been my preference, but when you're on a tight budget you can't be too choosy). Judiciously selecting 3rd/2nd to achieve the required torque seems to be the go (even 1st on our crazy driveway). I always thought autos were for cripples or non drivers, but actually it can even be quite fun, and nowhere near as slow as I had prepared myself for .
    The fuel consumption is the only worry - 90% of my driving is in the hills so I'm only returning 12l/100km. Does this seem excessive and if so is there anything I can do about it except slow down??! I'm sure it would be much more reasonable on the highway and I do fairly low km so not too worried. If money was no object a turbo diesel conversion would be the obvious solution...
    I'm running on 14" rims with 195/75 tyres and am thinking I should change to 185/70 to achieve correct original wheel diameter whilst maintaining ride quality (lots of terrible dirt roads on my itinerary...) when the time comes? Any advice welcome!
    The only things not working on the car are:
    1. Air con
    2. Climate control temperature control (previous owner, who presumably couldn't be bothered to replace the solenoid switch, has installed a tap on the heater hose so I have to raise the bonnet to turn the heater on or off ), and
    3. Ventilation direction. The latter seems to have reverted to a default limp mode subsequent to my very amateurish attempts to fiddle with it (undoing all the pressurized air pipes from the back of the switches and re-connecting - no response now from any of them ). This might represent rather clever design by Peugeot, as it now blows only cool air to my face when the heater is switched off, and adds warm air to the demist and footwell vents when heater is on, which is a workable default setting.
    I might get around to fixing any or all of these things when the bank balance is a bit more healthy.
    In summary, my new 19 year old French lady is, despite and even because of her slight eccentricities and creaks, a much loved member of the family already. And I reckon she's a bit of a looker for a cheap chic!
    Cheers,
    Thom.
    185 70 is quite small, your car came with 195 65 15 originally.
    In 14 inch this equates to 185 75 or 195 70.
    Graham

  6. #6
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    I have to agree re the fuel figures the last time I checked my 505 gti wagon (manual) it was 10 on mixed driving- I think that the ventilation is not meant to ever blow hot air in your face as a safety thing. One thing , if your hoses are starting to blow do yourself a favour and replace them all as they are going to give out on you usually at the worst possible time-the only really difficult one is the feeder to the heater.

  7. #7
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    Default tyre sizes / a/c

    Thanks for the feedback!

    @tomb & Graham re the tyre sizes I'm assuming that moving to a higher profile (80/90) will improve economy by increasing the diameter of the wheel on the road while reducing from 195 to 185 would reduce the width of the tyre and therefore the drag and consequently also improve fuel economy? My intention was just to get speedo accuracy, but fuel economy would take preference...

    @ tomb re the a/c when you suggest taking all the gear out to improve air flow, do you mean the compressor/belt and under bonnet stuff? I'm not a big fan of a/c - the windows work perfectly!
    Goonengerry 505


  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! tomb's Avatar
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    thom, the compressor is just dead heavy weight and by removing the cooler in front of the radiator you improve air flow to the radiator, which may be a blessing one hot summers day.

    Don't do anything until you have made certian that the a/c system is no longer pressurized. Although it is not working there still is a chance it is full of compressed refridgeration gas.

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! tomb's Avatar
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    On tyres, the first set I had on the diesel a log time ago where 195/70 on 14 michelin XM (the door badge says 185) I had to keep them well inflated as the front tyres just brushed the strut housings (it never occured to me that there was some other simple soultions to this). I got well over 80 thousand klms form that set, never managed anything like it since with 185/80 tyres.

  10. #10
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    Default Regarding the A/C

    I think the 505 (and 504) compressors are too big and heavy, which could cause overheating on hot summer days.
    The question is: why not use a compressor from a smaller (maybe Japanese) car like the Corolla for example ? just look how small their compressors are compared to the old pug units and their A/Cs are very damn freezing.
    I think smaller compressor means better fuel economy and less effort on the engine, right ?
    Any thoughts ??
    Chadi

    1982 504 SR white manual sedan with A/C (257 000 Km)
    2012 308 1.6 VTi Vapor Grey manual H/B (35000 Km)
    1994 405 1.6 white manual sedan (208 000 Km)
    1992 605 SV24 (91 000 Km)
    2005 406 2.0L automatic (Replaced with a 2013 C5)
    1983 505 GR white manual sedan with A/C (170000 Km)

    All since new


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomb View Post
    thom, the compressor is just dead heavy weight and by removing the cooler in front of the radiator you improve air flow to the radiator, which may be a blessing one hot summers day.

    Don't do anything until you have made certian that the a/c system is no longer pressurized. Although it is not working there still is a chance it is full of compressed refridgeration gas.
    Thanks tomb - I think I will take all this gear out - but how do I check if the system is still pressurised? I very much doubt that it is, but...
    Goonengerry 505


  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomb View Post
    On tyres, the first set I had on the diesel a log time ago where 195/70 on 14 michelin XM (the door badge says 185) I had to keep them well inflated as the front tyres just brushed the strut housings (it never occured to me that there was some other simple soultions to this). I got well over 80 thousand klms form that set, never managed anything like it since with 185/80 tyres.
    Sounds like 195/70 might be the go then...they will look better than the 195/75s I have on there at the moment too. Thanks!
    Goonengerry 505


  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! tomb's Avatar
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    Thom other than getting a a/c mechanic to check and properly degas it I'm not sure. Alan S threads dealt with the dangers of releasing highly compressed a/c gas, can be dangerous. on my pugs they have all leaked out at some stage but best to be careful. Some AFers may have a method.

    on the 195/70's check how well they fit on the front. That size was recommended to me when i purchased the car by fellow 505 Srdt owners and I was suprised that they were such a close fit. I hindsight a few washers (probably illegal) would have solved the issue.

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! James S's Avatar
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    Default 505s

    Thom,

    I checked my wagon this morning and it has 195/70R14s. They seem to provide a really good ride.

    I reckon you should fix the AC, but that's just because I like comfort. I intend to fix mine (or get it fixed) which, like yours, doesn't work. Also my heater tap/valve is not being activated by the internal controls so my car, again like yours, has a manual system for "turning the heater on" - i.e. a clamp on a hose. The valve is fine as I have tested it, so there is something dodgy about the controls. I have a spare car to pinch bits off luckily.

    James

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomevans View Post
    Thanks tomb - I think I will take all this gear out - but how do I check if the system is still pressurised? I very much doubt that it is, but...

    @ Thomevan. If you are really considering better fuel economy for your 505 GTi, you need to repair that your AC.

    You need to know that a vehicle with windows down on highspeed consumes more fuel because of the air drag. When your windows are down and the car is speeding about 100km/h, the engine labours more to maintain the speed because the breeze will be draging the car. Air drags saps more horsepower from the engine than the AC does. The more the horsepower needed to pull the drive train, the more the fuel consumed. When your window is down and a big vehicle or truck overtakes you, do you notice slight shifting of the car/steering? I leave you to answer that.

    Please, it is the Alternator that powers car AC compressor, not the crankshaft. The belt is only pulling the pulley on the compressor. Compressor can only add weight to the car. But is the weight so big that it consumes fuel more for you to complain?

    Ikenna.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikenna351 View Post
    @ Thomevan. If you are really considering better fuel economy for your 505 GTi, you need to repair that your AC.

    You need to know that a vehicle with windows down on highspeed consumes more fuel because of the air drag. When your windows are down and the car is speeding about 100km/h, the engine labours more to maintain the speed because the breeze will be draging the car. Air drags saps more horsepower from the engine than the AC does. The more the horsepower needed to pull the drive train, the more the fuel consumed. When your window is down and a big vehicle or truck overtakes you, do you notice slight shifting of the car/steering? I leave you to answer that.

    Please, it is the Alternator that powers car AC compressor, not the crankshaft. The belt is only pulling the pulley on the compressor. Compressor can only add weight to the car. But is the weight so big that it consumes fuel more for you to complain?

    Ikenna.
    Mythbusters checked this out and came down on the side of windows open being more economical that with them shut and the air con on.
    Of course the crankshaft drives the air con compressor, have a look, a drive belt connects the two.
    Even if the alternator did suppy an electric compressor motor it would actually need MORE energy as both the alternator and the fictional compressor motor are not 100% efficient.
    Graham

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