1984 505 SR issues
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  1. #1
    Tadpole harlanj's Avatar
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    Default 1984 505 SR issues

    Hello everyone,

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    I'm looking for a 505 to buy, having sold my STI a few years ago...and now kinda regretting it.

    I found a reasonable looking 1984 505 SR, white, manual, body appears to be in good nick, no apparent rust, interior looks top, air con not working. 236,000km. Took it for a drive just over a week ago. It had a few things that will need attention though, all mechanical:

    - Rough, lumpy idle. It's a carburetted engine, could be as simple as needing a good tune? It also popped and farted whilst engine braking. Once revving it pulled well and wasn't at all hesitant.

    - Gearstick action is loose. Had no problem finding the gears, didn't pop out of gear, wasn't apparently noisy. Seller reckoned the linkages were loose, does this sound accurate?

    - Clutch pedal started sticking during the test drive. It was fine for the first 5 or so mins, then got stuck half way through it's travel. Pumping it caused it to release, and then it only sometimes stuck, from then on the pedal rose back to it's normal position slowly. Clutch still felt alright and didn't seem to slip. Seemed like it might just be the pedal pivots needing some lube?

    - Steering wheel turned slightly to one side as if turning when driving straight. The steering felt light and precise still. Might this be a wheel alignment issue? Or something more sinister?

    The guy was advertising at $2500, but after noting some of these issues he offered to sell at $1500. It seems hard to find 505s with nice straight bodies and good paint (especially series 1 cars). I'd be happy to throw $1000 or so to fix these things if it means I'll end up with a decent car.

    Would love to hear some thoughts

    Harlan

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Hello everyone,



    - Rough, lumpy idle. It's a carburetted engine, could be as simple as needing a good tune? It also popped and farted whilst engine braking. Once revving it pulled well and wasn't at all hesitant.

    It will have a either Weber or Solex twin barrel carby. These are notorious for getting out out of tune and gummed up. Unless you are a Peugeot purist, I would bypass all the repairs and fit a Falcon Weber carby off a XE/XF. A set of plugs and and an electrical tune up may also help to sort the issues plus checking if the pollution gear is working or removed may help.

    If it popping and farting on back off check for exhaust leaks as well. My guess would a pulsre air pollution system issue.


    - Gearstick action is loose. Had no problem finding the gears, didn't pop out of gear, wasn't apparently noisy. Seller reckoned the linkages were loose, does this sound accurate?


    Standard issue and easily fixed up. Just look out for tragic gear box noises

    - Clutch pedal started sticking during the test drive. It was fine for the first 5 or so mins, then got stuck half way through it's travel. Pumping it caused it to release, and then it only sometimes stuck, from then on the pedal rose back to it's normal position slowly. Clutch still felt alright and didn't seem to slip. Seemed like it might just be the pedal pivots needing some lube?

    At a guess lubrication issue, or clutch hydraulics which are not expensive to fix. Slight chance it is clutch fork problem, these gearboxes can break clutch forks of have the pivot points fatigue. The clutch fork is cheap but you need to remove the engine of gearbox to fit.

    - Steering wheel turned slightly to one side as if turning when driving straight. The steering felt light and precise still. Might this be a wheel alignment issue? Or something more sinister?
    After doing a wheel alignment the steering wheel needs to taken off and centred again, sounds like this hasn't been done. Trivial job.

    The guy was advertising at $2500, but after noting some of these issues he offered to sell at $1500. It seems hard to find 505s with nice straight bodies and good paint (especially series 1 cars). I'd be happy to throw $1000 or so to fix these things if it means I'll end up with a decent car.

    In my opinion provided the car is clean and rust free and their are no major Roadworthy items $2500 finished is a fair price. 505 are long lived and seldom have major problems provided they are maintained, oil changes mainly. The clutch fork could be quite expensive to repair, unless you can remove and replace the engine yourself.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    +1 on the Falcon weber. Shouldn't cost more than $50 from the wreckers and they have the benefit of electronic choke which seem to not fail and are replaceable with new parts anyway.
    On the electronics front, the SR has electronic ignition and the contact between the module and guard gets dirty/corroded. just unbolt it and clean the surfaces and apply a small amount of vasoline or heatsink paste for a good contact and all will be well. New leads, plugs and possibly distributor rotor as mentioned will help too.
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    Fellow Frogger! tomb's Avatar
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    - Clutch pedal started sticking during the test drive. It was fine for the first 5 or so mins, then got stuck half way through it's travel. Pumping it caused it to release, and then it only sometimes stuck, from then on the pedal rose back to it's normal position slowly. Clutch still felt alright and didn't seem to slip. Seemed like it might just be the pedal pivots needing some lube?

    The connecting arm off the clutch pedal are known to wear out and are easy to replace. May not be that but worth a look. Have a look at the clutch pedal, the arm coming off it has a eye at one end and this fatigues over time.

    May sure the hand brake is working properly. S/Hand rear calipers in good nic with the hand brake connecting working propely are getting harder to find and can be pricey. Check front brake hoses.

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    Tadpole harlanj's Avatar
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    Thanks for the responses guys, looks like it might be worth the money.

    I did notice that a section of hosing was missing between the exhaust and the air intake, presumably part of the pollution control stuff (EGR I think it's called?). Could be part of the idle issues? Also he did say that the car had only been driven a few kilometres here and there by his son-in-law, so only short trips, if the carb is all out of tune could this contribute to the plugs being fowled up, thus adding to the rough idle?

    The XE/XF carb idea sounds like a sensible option, I came across a thread on here where someone was diagnosing the auto choke on a 505 GR - a lot of mucking around. Are the Falcon webers hard to mount and tune? I'd prefer to do that job and the plugs/leads myself to save some money.

    I think I might give Paul Vassallo a call about the other couple of items and work out a ballpark figure to fix them.

    Harlan

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    Tadpole harlanj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomb View Post
    The connecting arm off the clutch pedal are known to wear out and are easy to replace. May not be that but worth a look. Have a look at the clutch pedal, the arm coming off it has a eye at one end and this fatigues over time.

    May sure the hand brake is working properly. S/Hand rear calipers in good nic with the hand brake connecting working propely are getting harder to find and can be pricey. Check front brake hoses.
    Thanks, I'll remember to look at those things. Handbrake felt good, had to do a couple of handbrake hill starts in some traffic.

    Harlan

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    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    and yet another improvement......

    Here is the thread from a few years back(at least it wasn't lost. All the info you need about the carbie is there.
    If you are half OK with spanners and mechanics, a 505 will be no challenge, especially if it's a manual. No kickdown cable to worry about.
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  8. #8
    Tadpole harlanj's Avatar
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    Thanks Hong Kong Puggy, that looks like a good and informative read A brief flick through suggests it's a simple task. I'll read more of it later at home.

    I did a few things to the STI when I had it, with the help of a Haynes manual and this forum. I was fresh out of school and quite poor so I had no choice but to do the work myself - looking under the bonnet of this car with the 2L engine is like a dream by comparison! Lots of space! So I'll probably be alright doing work on it myself.

    Harlan

  9. #9
    mlb
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    Quote Originally Posted by harlanj View Post
    The XE/XF carb idea sounds like a sensible option, I came across a thread on here where someone was diagnosing the auto choke on a 505 GR - a lot of mucking around. Are the Falcon webers hard to mount and tune? I'd prefer to do that job and the plugs/leads myself to save some money.
    Its an easy conversion. Straight bolt on. My advice is to not bother rooting around with adapting the throttle cable. Spend the extra $50 and get a falcon cable. The only change to make is the firewall penetration. Nice and easy. You may have to reroute some coolant too. Nothing plugs won't fix.

    I currently have an issue with the choke in that it's getting old and not resetting when cold. Just needs a clean out.

    Happy to help you out if you decide to make the conversion.

    Matt
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  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! Ikenna351's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harlanj View Post
    Hello everyone,

    I'm looking for a 505 to buy, having sold my STI a few years ago...and now kinda regretting it.

    I found a reasonable looking 1984 505 SR, white, manual, body appears to be in good nick, no apparent rust, interior looks top, air con not working. 236,000km. Took it for a drive just over a week ago. It had a few things that will need attention though, all mechanical:

    You can always fix the Air con. That shouldnt bother you.

    - Rough, lumpy idle. It's a carburetted engine, could be as simple as needing a good tune? It also popped and farted whilst engine braking. Once revving it pulled well and wasn't at all hesitant.

    - Gearstick action is loose. Had no problem finding the gears, didn't pop out of gear, wasn't apparently noisy. Seller reckoned the linkages were loose, does this sound accurate?

    Fibers on the gear selecting rods have worn. Changing all the fibers would fix the problem.

    - Clutch pedal started sticking during the test drive. It was fine for the first 5 or so mins, then got stuck half way through it's travel. Pumping it caused it to release, and then it only sometimes stuck, from then on the pedal rose back to it's normal position slowly. Clutch still felt alright and didn't seem to slip. Seemed like it might just be the pedal pivots needing some lube?

    Check the slave cylinder rubber, both the upper and lower pots, if the clutch hydraulically controlled.

    - Steering wheel turned slightly to one side as if turning when driving straight. The steering felt light and precise still. Might this be a wheel alignment issue? Or something more sinister?

    This should be either the front caliper rubbers or the brake hose of the side the steering is turning while in motion. If the car has not been used for a long time, the caliper will need to be washed. Or maybe that wheel brake hose no longer supplies and returns blake fluid to the caliper properly.

    The guy was advertising at $2500, but after noting some of these issues he offered to sell at $1500. It seems hard to find 505s with nice straight bodies and good paint (especially series 1 cars). I'd be happy to throw $1000 or so to fix these things if it means I'll end up with a decent car.

    The most important thing while checking for a 505 to buy is its body. Once the body is in good condition, the mechanicals wont be a difficult thing to fix, cos no matter how new the mechanicals is while the body is gone, you can never get back to its original state, unlike the mechanicals.


    Would love to hear some thoughts

    Harlan
    r
    From the description, I believe its XN series engine. An Indestructible engine.

    Good luck with your buy.

    Ikenna.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by harlanj View Post
    - Gearstick action is loose. Had no problem finding the gears, didn't pop out of gear, wasn't apparently noisy. Seller reckoned the linkages were loose, does this sound accurate?

    - Clutch pedal started sticking during the test drive. It was fine for the first 5 or so mins, then got stuck half way through it's travel. Pumping it caused it to release, and then it only sometimes stuck, from then on the pedal rose back to it's normal position slowly. Clutch still felt alright and didn't seem to slip.
    The gear selector (in cabin part) has a hard plastic bushing that a bolt goes through. This wears readily and the shifter feels loose and vague.

    A high pressure hydraulic hose may be plugged and give a sticky clutch feel; is it worse when the engine warms up?

  12. #12
    Tadpole harlanj's Avatar
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    Thanks mlb, if I proceed with the conversion and run into strife I'll be sure to ask for help

    Thanos, the clutch did start sticking as the engine warmed up, it was fine when it was started cold. I think I would have been driving for about 5 - 10 mins before it started to stick.

    Ikenna, you're right, the aircon is no big deal. It didn't work on my last 505 either and I can live without it. The body is in great condition, I haven't checked thoroughly for rust but didn't notice any obvious areas - certainly my last 505 had more surface bits and it was a pretty straight body too. The boot floor in this one is nearly perfect. And again, the interior is top. Seats all look nearly new, no tears or stains, the guy had a dash mat in the boot (not sure why it wasn't on the car at the time) so presumably it was fitted to the dash once.

    I gave Paul Vassallo a call this morning, he reckoned about $500 to sort the gear linkages and the clutch master cylinder (he thinks the master cylinder is the most likely cause of the sticky clutch), which seems a reasonable amount. Seeing as the mechanical issues appear to be quite easily repairable, I think I'd be mad to turn it up. Just hope he hasn't sold it yet!

    Harlan

  13. #13
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    It may be a good idea to change linkages and recon the clutch master, but to me it sounds more like a worn shifter bushing and plugged hydraulic hose for the clutch.

  14. #14
    Tadpole harlanj's Avatar
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    Well it's been a few weeks, time for an update.

    I finally pinned the guy down (he's renovating in the mountains), managed to get over to see it on the weekend. Had a friend give it a bit of a look, paid and drove it home. Now a proud pug owner once more

    Since I've been driving it the clutch has improved a bit. Still sticky but no longer stopping in it's travel. Brakes feel better. Overall it's driving better than before, still rough but fairly tractable. Auto choke seems a little sticky and the air filter is naturally filthy. So is the top of the carb. Only real problem so far was a high temp issue the other night, had a look the next day and the coolant level was quite low. Decided to top up with demineralised water for the time being - the previous owner had evidently already topped it up with water at some stage (on top of the coolant ). Problem solved for now. I figured it might be worthwhile to wait for the moment and replace the radiator hoses in the near future, before flushing and putting decent stuff in there. I also didn't want to mix coolants.

    Gave the whole thing a good wash and the white paint has come up great (I'll get some photos soon). Only the roof is slightly chalky. Bumpers and other plastic bits are still quite black, I'm very pleased. Inside the car pretty much everything works, including the clock! (but not it's backlight). A couple of dash globes have gone but that's it.

    Took it down to Paul Vassallo this morning for the clutch and gear linkage work. He has since put it up on the hoist, sure enough all the linkage bushes are stuffed. The clutch master and slave cylinders look new he says, so it looks as if it is either a hydraulic blockage or something going on with the pedal (there's a bit of free play in it). The front exhaust muffler has a hole and needs replacing. Other than that he reported that the steering is all good, looks like some work has been done there, and the front suspension bushes are good too. No mention of the rear which seems a bit stiff to me. There's a slight head gasket leak but nothing too major, I think I can learn to replace a gasket. The carburettor is pretty shabby by his description so after all this I'll start looking for that falcon weber. Overall it should have no trouble passing rego (due next week ) with the exhaust fixed.

    Paul reckons it'll be ready tomorrow afternoon. Can't wait!

    Thanks for all your help guys When I get it back I'll get a few photos up.

    Harlan

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    Fellow Frogger! tomb's Avatar
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    Default Sealwel

    Harlan get some Sealwel, Bursons seem to stock it, comes as to small blocks, grate one of them up into small pieces and straight into the radiator. That will fix the coolant leak. If it is very bad do both blocks. There are other products on the shelf but I have had the most success with this product. (the local cylinder head business near me hides a block in every head they repair just as a precaution). It want harm your radiator.

  16. #16
    Tadpole harlanj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomb View Post
    Harlan get some Sealwel, Bursons seem to stock it, comes as to small blocks, grate one of them up into small pieces and straight into the radiator. That will fix the coolant leak. If it is very bad do both blocks. There are other products on the shelf but I have had the most success with this product. (the local cylinder head business near me hides a block in every head they repair just as a precaution). It want harm your radiator.
    I just had a third call from Paul and apparently it's not the head gasket, it's actually the water pump. Bearings are on the way out. He's fitting a new one along with the other work. Thanks for your advice though I will remember this product in case I ever need it.

    The cold start issue has been traced to the choke diaphragm. Paul is renewing that also.

    Harlan

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! Ikenna351's Avatar
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    Harlan, Congrats! I know what it feels like to own a 505. Just like mine that will arrive in 2 weeks time.

    Enjoy!

    Ikenna.

  18. #18
    Tadpole harlanj's Avatar
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    Thanks Ikenna Even in it's rough running form it's been great, lots of fun and it just has that special something that's missing from most cars. I think overall I'm happy I sold the last one - this one is better!

    Harlan

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    Good to see you back in a Pug, Harlan.

    I remember you turning up at the BBQ in the STi
    Regards,

    Simon

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  20. #20
    Tadpole harlanj's Avatar
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    Thanks Simon!

    You must be the fellow who was in the blue 206 GTi180 on the day (judging by the cars in your signature) I think that was 2006...gee four years has flown.

    Harlan
    1984 Peugeot 505 SR

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