505 Deisel pump calibration
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! tomb's Avatar
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    Default 505 Deisel pump calibration

    Weird being a tadpole again. As this is my first post since daddy did us over, many thanks for all the hard work done to get AF back.

    My desiel pump specialist has gone from capable to incompetent in the space of 12 months. I am looking for someone who has all the right gear to set the timing on my bosch pump. Pump has been rebuilt with new seals, injectors done, timing chain done, compression excellent all four cylinders.

    Ted at Peugeolplus (not my diesel specialist) has advanced the pump manually and this has reduced exhaust smoke/unburnt deisel smoke by 50-60-70% The car has gone from undrivable to passable. Without the right equipment that's all Ted can do.

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    Any suggestions. What is a fair price for this task. I know Morassi and Williams can do the job but they are out of my league $ wise.

    Tom

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! andrepug's Avatar
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    Sorry I can't offer an alternative but what did Morassi & Williams quote?

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! tomb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrepug View Post
    Sorry I can't offer an alternative but what did Morassi & Williams quote?
    Haven't rung them to ask. Used them twice years ago (94 & 97) and both times they were expensive. That said the car had some value back then and the work they did was done right. I think they are in Williamstown now which is to far from me, (Huntingdale).

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    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    I've given up on the factory settings on the XD series motors. Not nearly advanced enough. I set my injection pumps by ear now. I get more power, better fuel economy, and can wind the max fuel screw in a lot further before I get unwanted smoke.
    Scotty

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  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! andrepug's Avatar
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    Older posts with the address for Morassi and Williams will have been lost so here are their details;
    3/ 3 Techno Park Drv, Williamstown VIC 3016 phone 9397 3993. Ask for Bruce.

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    Fellow Frogger! andrepug's Avatar
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    You may find some help on this forum;
    http://www.505turbo.com/forum/
    Where's 'dieselman' these days?

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! andrepug's Avatar
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    Hi Tomb, You posted awhile ago about a very good diesel specialist in Cheltenham. I had this info saved but I take it you are not impressed with them now.
    Also I had these details about timing;
    You'll know if the timing is wrong when you start from cold. The white smoke is a dead give away.
    White smoke in general is due to not enough heat to burn the fuel.
    It's best to get your pump timed correctly. This is not something that can be done "by ear". Very slight adjustments in pump movement make a big difference in timing.
    You'll see the results if it's too far retarded (white smoke), but too far advanced causes increased combustion noise and possible engine failure due to the increased stress.

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrepug View Post
    Hi Tomb, You posted awhile ago about a very good diesel specialist in Cheltenham. I had this info saved but I take it you are not impressed with them now.
    Also I had these details about timing;
    You'll know if the timing is wrong when you start from cold. The white smoke is a dead give away.
    White smoke in general is due to not enough heat to burn the fuel.
    It's best to get your pump timed correctly. This is not something that can be done "by ear". Very slight adjustments in pump movement make a big difference in timing.
    You'll see the results if it's too far retarded (white smoke), but too far advanced causes increased combustion noise and possible engine failure due to the increased stress.
    Isn't it odd how you need a human to tune a piano as no machine is as good as the human ear at the job, yet to tune a crude mechanical pump,with no where near the complexities of a piano's overtones you need a machine.
    Whats easier to tune, a motor or a primary school band.

    I'm watching this thread with interest because the diesel series one pajero that lives at my place as a courtesy car is a filthy smoker, and its owner mentioned something about the pump timing.


    Jo

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Isn't it odd how you need a human to tune a piano as no machine is as good as the human ear at the job, yet to tune a crude mechanical pump,with no where near the complexities of a piano's overtones you need a machine.
    Whats easier to tune, a motor or a primary school band.

    I'm watching this thread with interest because the diesel series one pajero that lives at my place as a courtesy car is a filthy smoker, and its owner mentioned something about the pump timing.


    Jo
    smoking diesels can have a number a causes relating to the problem starting with a blocked air filter
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  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! tomb's Avatar
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    Default pump timimg

    Yeah Andre I was a rap for the guy in Cheltenham, I remember our discussion, he rebuilt the pump for a fair price in 08 and suggested that I needed to do the timing chain and the injectors. I did the timing chain myself in winter 09 and took the car back to him this winter to do the injectors.

    The tensioner on the timing chain was nearly at it's maximum lift so it needed to be done, but I have a leaky cams shaft seal now, despite replacing it again this winter.

    When I returned to have the injectors done I mentioned that I had done the timing chain and that I had a problem with excessive exhaust smoke. He had it for a week, failed to seat two of the injectors, failed to remove the old copper washer for one injector and put a second new washer in on top of the old one.!!!!!!!! (I asked him if he got all the old washers out! Yeah, he said). Then he said the failure to seal the injectors wasn't an issue.!!!!!! The final straw was not adjusting the timing on the pump, he couldn't work out why it was so smokey!!!!!!

    It seems straight forward that when the timing chain is replaced on a diesel you need to adjust the pump timimg. Ted had it sussed in one chat.

    Scotty, Ted has done it by ear and eyes and it is much better but he felt to be spot on he had to take the rocker cover off, get TDC, use some equipment he didn't have and it could be imroved further.

    Pugrambo I got a new air filter in there, but for a little while I was thinking that maybe a turbo seal had gone but we decided that wasn't the cause.

    I'm going to give it a long run on the weekend, the car is in great nic except for the smoke. Thanks for all responses.

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! tomb's Avatar
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    Default 505 diesel running like new again

    After reading some old threads I finally took the diesel out to Rankin Diesel in Bayswater.

    They pulled the pump off and found one of the fuel delivery valves was knackered, replaced all four, tested pump & injectors, timed the pump correctly, one injector had no shim set (so diesesl just pouring in), reset the injectors and the tappetts, replaced a few gaskets and that smooth diesel feeling is back with a vengenace. Virually no smoke on start up, very little smoke under boost, smooth idle.

    Good for another ten years.

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! dieselman's Avatar
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    Glad to hear you got it sorted out.

    I haven't read this thread until now. My new job means I'm not bored at a screen all day, so I don't look at AF as much as I should.

    Timing the pump is only one part of the equation. Factors such as injector opening pressure will also affect the timing and can lead to different timing on different cylinders if you have injectors set with different opening pressures.

    A weak injector opening pressure means the fuel will be injected earlier, which is equivalent to an advanced pump.

    Adjusting the timing at the pump will alter the timing for all 4 cylinders, adjusting the injector pressure will adjust the timing for just that cylinder. Make sense?
    Leon

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  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! tomb's Avatar
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    Thanks Leon, all makes sense, they set the opening presure on all injectors (something the previous diesel mechanic didn't do) and then set the pump timming. The only comment they made was that the rockers where well worn and after 440 thousand klms that is not suprising. I will be interested to see what the klms are for the next full tank.

    Recently got the digital clock fixed (thanks to Gamma) so the only thing on the list is the oil temp guage which mysteriously died after I replaced the sump gasket last year. I assume it is the jaeger guage that has died. (would be great if it just needs a resolder like the clock). Only way I know to test for the problem is to swap the instrument panel over with a working one and see if it works then. I had hoped it might be a dead sensor below the oil filter but they seem OK.

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