505 s/w auto to 5-speed conversion
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    505 s/w auto to 5-speed conversion

    Has anyone out there done a conversion on a 505 s/w 1985 carb model, from the 3-speed auto to a 5-speed manual (BA10-5)?. The standard transmission mount will not fit at all and i think the earlier 504 s/w will be the same. I am thinking that the one to suit the 4HP22 auto may be the one to fit? Any help would be great.
    Grant.
    <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

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  2. #2
    VIP Sponsor
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    Grant,
    You need to use a BA7/5 transmission, sorry!

    Regards, Graham Wallis

  3. #3
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I'm about to do a 504 conversion... the mount from the 4-speed auto would work, but would need mods, I'll be making something similar.

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! Ranger's Avatar
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    Hi e/city,
    you may find this page usefull for the 505 conversion.
    <a href="http://www.geocities.com/davemcbean/transmissions.html" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/davemcbean/transmissions.html</a> cheers ranger
    "The defendant is no gentleman, but that is neither here nor there. We find for the defendant, much as we dislike him." A.P. Herbert

  5. #5
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    It is possible, but not sound engineering (in my opinion) to fit the BA10/5 with the original gearbox mount reversed.

    The mount has its sandwich plate that goes between the box and the ball socket housing on the same plane as its main bolt holes, the ones at each side, so reversing it is possible.

    But it then works in tension rather than compression (to take the drive loads) and would have to be in good shape and checked regularly. I don't recommend it, but it has been done, I know Jim Taylor in Canberra did it, Bill McNamee maintains the vehicle (at least to some degree).

  6. #6
    Tadpole
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    THANKS FOR THE ADVISE, THE NEXT PROBLEM IS THAT THE BALL HOUSING THAT YOU MENTIONED IS TOO BIG AND DOES NOT FIT INTO THE BACK OF THE EXTENSION HOUSING. ANY SUGGESTIONS ON THIS ONE ????

    GRANT

  7. #7
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    You're right into it now, I see... yes, get the ball socket off an earlier model. 404, 504...

  8. #8
    Tadpole
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    I reckon you should do it all yourself as the apprentice is too busy with real transmissions

  9. #9
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    [quote]Originally posted by e/city:
    <strong>THANKS FOR THE ADVISE, THE NEXT PROBLEM IS THAT THE BALL HOUSING THAT YOU MENTIONED IS TOO BIG AND DOES NOT FIT INTO THE BACK OF THE EXTENSION HOUSING. ANY SUGGESTIONS ON THIS ONE ????

    GRANT</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Grant,

    I think you might be able to machine the spigot on the front of the ball housing down (in a lathe) so that it fits the BA10. I'm pretty sure all the ball housings (505, 504, 404) are too big to fit the back of the BA10 without machining them down. The 404 and early 504 (pre 1977?) are most definitely too big to fit in the back of the BA10. Considering your 505 ball housing is also too big, then I deduce they stayed the same size on all models. The smaller hole on the back of the BA10 is to suit sedans (post 1977?). BA7s made after about 1977? have a stepped hole in the back of them (probably so they can fit both sedans and wagons).

    Regards,
    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  10. #10
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Dave... looking at the back of my BA10/5 it seems there isn't any room to machine the counterbore any more at all... I'll have a look at it all when I get a chance.

  11. #11
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    You were right, of course... it is about 3mm different... is the bolt pattern the same? Are you sure the 404 and 504 are the same?

  12. #12
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Ray,

    I'm pretty sure the bolt patern is the same (but not quite 100% sure). Seeing as the size of the spigot and recess on the 504 sedan changed in the mid to late 1970s, I'm pretty sure the early 504s have the same size spigot and recess as the 404.

    Also thanks for dropping that wheel off. Sorry no one was at home to give you the distributor, etc.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  13. #13
    Tadpole
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    I wonder if the good old celica 5 speed that goes into a lot of other cars would fit with mods ????? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

  14. #14
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Yes the Celica 5 speed does fit. I've seen it done on one 504 sedan. It required that an alloy flange be welded to the back of the 5 speed, and the tailshaft and link/torque tube had to be shortened. It would probably be a little more difficult on a 504/505 station wagon, due to the unique style of gearbox mount.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  15. #15
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    When it comes to that, I think the Gemini 5-speed might be a better bet... I think it is a little shorter.

    But if the bolt pattern on the back of the box is the same, it will simply be a matter of machining out the counterbore (on the Pug box) to suit the ball socket.

    There isn't enough material, I don't think, to take any away from the ball socket... just had a quick look the other day at Norm's place... but a really thorough inspection could reveal more.

  16. #16
    Tadpole
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    thanks for your help everyone. the BA10/5 is getting put to the side until a BA7/5 comes along. for now i have just put in the standard 4-speed manual box (gotta be better than the auto), with the 5-speed shifter which seems like it will work o.k. with a 1/4 twist to one of the linkages. chow for now.

    Grant

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