Hot Jerky 306XSI
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Hot Jerky 306XSI

    I own a Pug306XSI 1998 model. I have a nagging problem which I was wondering if anyone else has experieced and rectified.

    The problem basicly only occurs when the air temp is greater than 28 deg. What occurs is when you back off from 3000 rpm, and as the revs drop, around 2000 to 2500rpm, the car jerks like as if it has stalled and than started up again or a bit like a real quick kangarooing, but it only occurs in this rev range.

    I have been back to my dealer each summer since new and the first year they repaced the whole injection system including the ecu.

    The problem appeared to go away, but next summer it was back. This time they said it was the sep up valve, and guess what the next summer it was back. I took it back again and they ran it through their checks and said that nothing was showing up on the computer. Everthing else runs fine and in the cooler months it appears to be ok.

    I have questioned all trades, local RACQ and they can not offer a solution.

    I would be keen to hear from anyone who has experienced this problem.

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    Cheers

    Terry

  2. #2
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    I have a similar probelm to what you describe, however only with very slight throttle openings. Not too sure if air temp has anything to do with it for me though. Not too worried about it so I havent looked into doing anything about it.
    B to the R to the A from the D
    1994 MX5 Clubman...are you sure it's not French?

  3. #3
    Tadpole
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    have you checked your vacc diaphragm on your inlet manifold????
    regards paul.

  4. #4
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Paul, are you talking about the two black diaphrams on either side of the inlet manifold? I had these gone when I bought the car, unbeknownst to me, and I didnt have the symptoms, just sweek FA power under 4000rpm and then WOOSH!!!!
    B to the R to the A from the D
    1994 MX5 Clubman...are you sure it's not French?

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Mi16 Man's Avatar
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    As all the above mentioned engines are XU10J4's, it maybe a similar problem. With my Mi16, on deceleration coming up to a set of red lights etc., the engine 'jolts' as it passes through 1200rpm.

    Just had my 100K kms service today and have been advised the ECU check told them that a solenoid on the AVAC (dual intake chamber) is 'playing up'. Similar to Phasis, although the parts are not missing as such, it is sometimes keeping the shorter chamber open no matter of engine speed thus creating a gutless car below 4500rpm! Can't wait to see how much that will cost. Today they did test it and the solenoid was operational - just my luck! Anyone else had the same?????

    Is it just me or is pricing of parts very wierd? I just had fitted a new clutch cable which only cost $65.00. The self adjusting one was 'shite' (thanks Roy & HG) and was not taking up the slack. Compare this to $120 for a second hand Tail light cluster after my sister backed her 505GTi into a tap.
    Also today, my Front LHS window mechanism was replaced for labour + $295+GST. I have never seen any regularity in Pug parts pricing nor delivery timing.


    BUT - I love it, gimme it anyday. It is all part of the Peugeot experience and the car makes up for it in other ways - I call it character!

    Keep on Puggin'

    Stu G
    "Take a Lion through a corner - FAST"

    Current Fleet;
    2010 308 XSE HDi SW [Vapour Grey]
    2010 VW GOLF GTI [Carbon Steel Grey]

    In the Family;
    2012 508 Allure HDi [Thorium Grey]
    2008 207 HDi XT [Bianca White]

    Past "Frogs"
    2008 308 XSE HDi SW / 2006 307 XSE HDi Touring / 2001 306 XSi / 2005 206 GTi180 / 2005 407 HDi / 2003 206 XT / 1993 SII 405 Mi16 / 1990 205 GTi / 2x 1985 505 GTi S1 / 1976 504 / 1982 20 TS / 1997 306 XR / 1992 205 Si

  6. #6
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Stu

    When i bought the car I just thought that was the way it was, a peaky 16v engine. Took it to Peugeotcare for its first service, 110k/km and one of the diaphrams was screwed and the solenoid was dead. $33 for the solenoid and $106 for the diaphram. Annoyed me cause that work not done under warranty cuase I was told I had a $100 excess, so I had to pay, but it was worth it. HUGE difference.

    Then about 2 months later the other diaphram went, another $100.

    Turns out I dont have an excess after all but it doesnt cover my shock absorbers which need replacing aswell.

    The right one leaking oil and the left one is making a clicking noise when i push down on the car and makes a dull thud when going over bumps. Very noticable going over speed bumps.

    Could this noise be from anything else beside the shocks, thinking bushes but the steering responsiveness is still the same.
    B to the R to the A from the D
    1994 MX5 Clubman...are you sure it's not French?

  7. #7
    Tadpole
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    Thanks to all who have replied. For those in Brisbabane can anyone recommend a repairer. In the past I have been taking the car to City Peugeot.

    Thanks

    Terry

  8. #8
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Depends where you live. I take my car to A&J Lewis at Wynnum. Very reasonable and do good work. Bob at Peugeotcare in Wooloongabba also knows his stuff but is a tad more expensive.
    B to the R to the A from the D
    1994 MX5 Clubman...are you sure it's not French?

  9. #9
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    [quote]
    "I have never seen any regularity in Pug parts pricing nor delivery timing."

    They're all the same. Any bits you constantly use are always cheaper than a bit you rarely use.
    Did a job on a dishwasher one day & bought a small plastic bit for about $30. Then found a large complicated looking plastic bit & told customer it probably was going to be an arm & a leg (suspected $200+ based on the other part). Cost $20. Checked with parts guy & was told that they "always have to replace the small bit, that's why the price is so high."
    So it's a case of if it's essential & nobody makes a competitive part, the price goes through the roof. "They're there to make money not friends." (Quote from parts guy

    :p

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  10. #10
    Tadpole
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    we replaced the diaphrams and solenoids on a regular basis on these motors. nearly as oftern as coil packs....
    due to having a diagnostic machine we can track these problems down fast...
    if you find parts pricey, as you do from dealers give me a call and i will see what i can do....
    some thing unfortunatly have to be orig, but not all ways
    regards paul
    <a href="http://www.autoparis.com.au" target="_blank">www.autoparis.com.au</a>

  11. #11
    Tadpole
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    Paul of Auto Paris,
    In relation to your question re the K light, my lights go out when you crank the engine over. The only light that stays on for a while is the airbag.

    Cheers

    Terry

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! Mi16 Man's Avatar
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    Phasis,

    I have bitten the bullet................
    I tested both diaphrams (they seem OK) and solenoid which I think is the 'weakest link' in this whole saga. As per your above reply, I hope it is only a $33 part. Once this is done, the car will actually have power below 5000rpm. It has been VERY scary. To think that a Ford Festiva has more get up and go than the Mi16 at the moment!!

    So, just awaiting the part now and I will fit as soon as it is in my hot little hands. Looks like a Houdini effort to get off.

    Look out on the Sydney cruise..........
    Stu
    "Take a Lion through a corner - FAST"

    Current Fleet;
    2010 308 XSE HDi SW [Vapour Grey]
    2010 VW GOLF GTI [Carbon Steel Grey]

    In the Family;
    2012 508 Allure HDi [Thorium Grey]
    2008 207 HDi XT [Bianca White]

    Past "Frogs"
    2008 308 XSE HDi SW / 2006 307 XSE HDi Touring / 2001 306 XSi / 2005 206 GTi180 / 2005 407 HDi / 2003 206 XT / 1993 SII 405 Mi16 / 1990 205 GTi / 2x 1985 505 GTi S1 / 1976 504 / 1982 20 TS / 1997 306 XR / 1992 205 Si

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Where do i find this diaphram and solenoid? I don't remember seeing a k light on my car during startup, can bulb be blown? Man this car... sometimes i'm just tempted to sell it and go get something more reliable!

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! Mi16 Man's Avatar
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    Puglsy,

    What Pug do you drive????? From what I am aware, only the Series 2 405 Mi16 and 306 S16 share the engine that has these 'dual intake' chambers. These diaphrams are located just infront of the fuel injection rail, they look like little UFO's. There are two of them and are work on 'vacuum' which is provided by this solenoid. The solenoid is at the gearbox end of the block, high up and bolted onto the head. At one end, you will see the ECU plug and the other has two black vacuum pipes that lead to the diaphrams.

    As above, you can test which one is playing up so you do not have to replace both.

    Good luck
    Stu G
    "Take a Lion through a corner - FAST"

    Current Fleet;
    2010 308 XSE HDi SW [Vapour Grey]
    2010 VW GOLF GTI [Carbon Steel Grey]

    In the Family;
    2012 508 Allure HDi [Thorium Grey]
    2008 207 HDi XT [Bianca White]

    Past "Frogs"
    2008 308 XSE HDi SW / 2006 307 XSE HDi Touring / 2001 306 XSi / 2005 206 GTi180 / 2005 407 HDi / 2003 206 XT / 1993 SII 405 Mi16 / 1990 205 GTi / 2x 1985 505 GTi S1 / 1976 504 / 1982 20 TS / 1997 306 XR / 1992 205 Si

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger!
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    98 306 Xsi just like Terry. XU10J4R This the same as yours?

    I've got a diagram from the pug dealer of the 'Intake Manifold Air Distributor'. There is no listing of any diaphram, it only lists the air intake case and the associated sensors/motors. I couldn't find any mention of this diaphram in the haynes manual either, but theres probably alot no in there.

    Thanks Stu.

    Update: I think i know what you're talking about now, i remember seeing a little UFO type thing, it has bosch on it and is silver, also has a little plastic casing arounf it. How do i test this?

    Is it called a fuel pressure regulator?

    [ 26 March 2002: Message edited by: Pugsly ]

    [ 26 March 2002: Message edited by: Pugsly ]</p>

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! Mi16 Man's Avatar
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    As Jim Carey would say;
    "Aaaaaaalrighty Then!!!!!!

    Now, have a look at Phasis's member gallery photo's and not only will see a FINE example of a well kept engine bay, it will help to show the where these mystery parts are.

    In reference to the engines, they are the same block (1998cc) but they have different things 'hanging off' them. From memory, the Mi16 is a XU10J4Z (RFY) spec engine.

    Now, the fuel regulator would be a round damper actually welded to the fuel injection rail. They are a bright silver round piece, about 8cm diameter. Ours is smack bang in the middle of the No 2 & 3 injectors. It seems to have a simple clip holding it in but the surround is welded into place. On Mi16's and S16's, they are regualarly replaced according to Northshore Euro this morning when I picked up my solenoid ($75 BTW). If this solenoid is not the problem (I doubt it is not the cause per my ECU) I will try the fuel regulator. I have been told they either work or not but I am not sure what the 'symptoms' are???!!!

    There was also another discussion in this forum under (new Avatar pictures). This is in 'general discussion' and it has links to a UK site that has piccies of engines. Hopefully yours is in there to have a look at.

    As you are in Sydney, best to speak with a dealer or P504 (9451 5100) in Forestville. Steve in Parts @ Northshore European (Pug Dealer in Brookvale) is fantastic and has plenty of Pug experience. Give him a call on 9905 6666. I am not sure if they NEED to look after us after spending about $100K in parts and cars with them but the team there really look after us

    Best of luck - but if you get something more reliable, it will take the 'joy' out of owning a Pug. Sure, I am getting very annoyed at the lack of reliablility in Pugs but they do not 'break down' as such. I have seen many a VT Dunnydores with bonnets up of late. Only the bits that are hanging off engines seems to break. Peugeot do not make the Fuel pumps/windows/bulbs/injections system etc etc and that has what let me down. You would think that BOSCH makes reliable fuel pumps by now!!!!!!!

    Keep that chin up! You coming for the cruise on the 28th of April???? Cmon...............

    See ya
    Stu G
    "Take a Lion through a corner - FAST"

    Current Fleet;
    2010 308 XSE HDi SW [Vapour Grey]
    2010 VW GOLF GTI [Carbon Steel Grey]

    In the Family;
    2012 508 Allure HDi [Thorium Grey]
    2008 207 HDi XT [Bianca White]

    Past "Frogs"
    2008 308 XSE HDi SW / 2006 307 XSE HDi Touring / 2001 306 XSi / 2005 206 GTi180 / 2005 407 HDi / 2003 206 XT / 1993 SII 405 Mi16 / 1990 205 GTi / 2x 1985 505 GTi S1 / 1976 504 / 1982 20 TS / 1997 306 XR / 1992 205 Si

  17. #17
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Just thought I might add some more pics to make things a bit clearer.

    <a href="http://public.fotki.com/Phasis/my_306_s16/03_2.html" target="_blank">Picture 1</a>

    Above is again my bay. The blue arrows are pointing to the diaphrams, both which have been replaced. The red arrow is pointing to what I think Pugsly was talking about, the silver thingy.

    I think i know what you're talking about now, i remember seeing a little UFO type thing, it has bosch on it and is silver, also has a little plastic casing around it.

    <a href="http://public.fotki.com/Phasis/my_306_s16/02_2.html" target="_blank">Picture 2</a>

    In this picture you can see the other side of the engine. The red arrow points to the t-piece vacume booster (which I also have replaced, and the blue arrow points to where the solenoid should be located. The solenoid will have one black tube comming from it going into a small t piece which runs to both diaphrams shown above

    Use the graphic below to see what I am on about.

    <a href="http://public.fotki.com/Phasis/my_306_s16/bay_diagram.html" target="_blank">Picture 3</a>

    [ 29 March 2002: Message edited by: Phasis ]</p>
    B to the R to the A from the D
    1994 MX5 Clubman...are you sure it's not French?

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger!
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    ok picture speaks a thousand words! The thing i was talking about wasn't the diaphram, they both look like ufos. I will have to check this stuff out on the weekend, but how do you test the diaphram? I think i will just goto the dealer in granville, the others are too far. but $99/hour labor! i just don't want the car coming back with all thses problems!

    I will not be attending the cruise, i would be holding everyone back! hehe

  19. #19
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    they can be taken off really easy. Just suck on the opening the pipe plugs into and see if you can not suck anymore. No really, this is how my mechanic did it, and he just can't be as good as your mech as he only charges $60/hour
    B to the R to the A from the D
    1994 MX5 Clubman...are you sure it's not French?

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger!
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    well i don't really have a mechanic yet, $60 sounds good to me! is he a mobile mechanic willing to come to syd? =)

    I couldn't find the diaphrams on my car, the pic on the web is different than whats under my bonnet.

  21. #21
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    I dont think the XSI has themm, they were only on the S16 and S2 Mi16 in this form. Not sure about the GTi6 though.
    B to the R to the A from the D
    1994 MX5 Clubman...are you sure it's not French?

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! Mi16 Man's Avatar
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    Hi Phasis,

    Again, i know...........................

    Hopefully this will be my last post on this topic re the Mi16's problem but the afore mentioned "T-piece vacuum booster", did you have that replaced???? I cannot seem to find mine plus I find it wierd that the Mi16 does not have a tube connected to the solenoid above where the ECU wires plug in. Basically at one end of the part you have the ECU receptor and a metal pipe coming out about 1cm horizontally. At the other end, another pipe comes out horizontally and off that horzontal pipe, is another that is vertical. At the moment, the latter two pipes (assuming they lead to the diaphrams) have tubes connected but not the other end..................I may have to have a good hunt around the engine bay tommorrow with a flood light to find it IF it is a missing tube. Most likely melted if it comes over the extractors from the brake booster.

    Must say I had a laugh that the soleoid is manufactured in MONACO of all places. My god, it makes it seem sooooooo cheap and inferior for $75!!!!

    But to Pugsly and Phasis, thanks for your help with this one. All 112Kw, please come back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    C YA
    Stu G
    "Take a Lion through a corner - FAST"

    Current Fleet;
    2010 308 XSE HDi SW [Vapour Grey]
    2010 VW GOLF GTI [Carbon Steel Grey]

    In the Family;
    2012 508 Allure HDi [Thorium Grey]
    2008 207 HDi XT [Bianca White]

    Past "Frogs"
    2008 308 XSE HDi SW / 2006 307 XSE HDi Touring / 2001 306 XSi / 2005 206 GTi180 / 2005 407 HDi / 2003 206 XT / 1993 SII 405 Mi16 / 1990 205 GTi / 2x 1985 505 GTi S1 / 1976 504 / 1982 20 TS / 1997 306 XR / 1992 205 Si

  23. #23
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    I had the solenoid replaced, but not with an OEM part, it was another type which is not standard. They did a kinda bodge job, otherwise it would of been big $$ to replace it with OEM. But it still has one inlet, one outlet and 2 wires.

    The t-piece is cylindrical in the middle, with a blcak body and white endcaps where there are 2 large connectors, one for connects to the vacume pump off the head, directly opposite this is the other large flange which runs to the brake booster. These hoses are the briaded type. Then perpendicular to these runs a small flang where the black tube come off from. This runs into the solenoid.

    I replaced this as one of the flanges broke off, hence no vacume to either the brake booster of the solenoid/diaphrams and no low down power.

    Brad
    B to the R to the A from the D
    1994 MX5 Clubman...are you sure it's not French?

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! Mi16 Man's Avatar
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    Well well well....................Phasis, I hear you brother!!!

    I turned the key over for it's pre-start system/oil check and then after only 2 or 3 revolutions, my ECU light went out!!!! WAHOOO!!!!! Usually, it 'lights up my life' for 5 secs.

    To ensure it was running well, even though I knew the diaphrams were doing their stuff, I took the Mi16 for a run up the M2 freeway and got did it bolt out of the toll gates or what!!!! From standstill to 110km/h....awesome. It has got it's original punch from 2000rpm and up. Probably for the past 3000kms or so, I did not known what the problem was and normally thinking Sydney's fuel was getting worse. Now, all gone.
    I might go and spoil the old girl tommorrow and give her some NULON Pro-Strength. "Super Cheap Auto" has 20% of everything tommorrow, sounds good to me!

    It is amazing the effect one small part does to an engine. Took me 30mins to fit including taking out everything on the RHS (battery+tray+all hoses)of the engine bay and giving it a GOOD clean. Many of the breather hoses had not been cleaned at all in it's lifetime and had some minor dust build up. Learnt a good lesson too.....don't trust your mechanic, even if they are a genuine dealer!!!! I found that the intake hose just prior to the throttle butterfly was loose and just fell off. No wonder I was getting mixed air pressure readings to the ECU. The mechanic advised me that he checked ALL hoses in relation to the intake system as the ECU stated two faults. The ACAV solenoid and a 'intake mixture' malfunction were showing up. I went over all of them and tightend the hose clamps with a spanner, not just the usual screwdriver job.

    Would have loved to have a digi-camera so I could post pics in the "Hints" section for future S2 Mi16 + S16 owners......but I will have one for the Sydney cruise.

    So, thanks everyone, esp. Phasis for putting up with my pestering!!

    All happy now.
    Stu
    "Take a Lion through a corner - FAST"

    Current Fleet;
    2010 308 XSE HDi SW [Vapour Grey]
    2010 VW GOLF GTI [Carbon Steel Grey]

    In the Family;
    2012 508 Allure HDi [Thorium Grey]
    2008 207 HDi XT [Bianca White]

    Past "Frogs"
    2008 308 XSE HDi SW / 2006 307 XSE HDi Touring / 2001 306 XSi / 2005 206 GTi180 / 2005 407 HDi / 2003 206 XT / 1993 SII 405 Mi16 / 1990 205 GTi / 2x 1985 505 GTi S1 / 1976 504 / 1982 20 TS / 1997 306 XR / 1992 205 Si

  25. #25
    Member JohnnoMi16's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad
    they can be taken off really easy. Just suck on the opening the pipe plugs into and see if you can not suck anymore. No really, this is how my mechanic did it, and he just can't be as good as your mech as he only charges $60/hour
    So, I did this. One of them were really hard to suck. I could only suck to a certain point, whereas the other one was easy to suck - I could just continue sucking on this one to no end. Does this mean that the one that was easy to suck is the dead one? Or is it the one that's hard to suck that's the dead one?

    My car is really jerky between 2,000 and 2,500rpm at the moment.

    Also, how do I test the solenoid?

    John
    Last edited by JohnnoMi16; 3rd April 2004 at 09:56 PM.
    1993 Series 2 405 Mi16 [MII-16V]

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