What about a 505 GTI?

[STALLED]

Hey,

Been looking around and I have come accross a 505 GTI for sale!

So yeaa.....Basically Id like to know a bit about the car?

I know they run a 2.2 Dourvin motor - Does it have a timing chain or belt?

Are they series 2 or one in body shape - or did they come in both?

Much I should look out for when I do check out the car?

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How do they handle - Id also like to do some motorkhana work in it as a possibility, I know its not the best car but it will do I suppose until I get possibly a 306?

Auto gear box - Any problems, I know they got a 4 speed in '87 but im unsure about if it has this box or not?

Any other comments?

Thanks heaps again AF'ers!

Joel

[Lennix]

Hi Joel. Ive never owned a GTI but from secondhand experience these are great cars. You can also check some of the ealier threads for pleny of info on the subject.

But, yes, they do have a timing belt not a chain and I believe they are only found as series 2 or new model as some call them.

There are a few things to look out for, mostly standard Peugoet stuff, check the threads for this info, there was a very resent one on the subject, i.e. jan/feb 2006.

They handle very well but probably you could find something more suitable for the motorkhana, assuming its some sporting event.

Gearbox, my choice would always be manual with the more gears the better. The auboxes are fine but they do have their drawbacks, also in terms of reliablity. Again check the threads.

Any other comments - check the threads again, there is plenty of info from people with firsthand experience...

[James504]

Good to see your staying clear of Mi16's Joel. A well tuned 505GTi will beat a Mi16 in a straight line. If 505's are like 504's you shouldn't have many problems. Just check for rust!

James.

[Gus]

Joel, I think a 505 GTI, while a car with obvious weaknesses, is great value for money if you get a good one. To answer some of your questions:

- Came in both S1 and S2 variants. S1 is leaded fuel, higher compression, warmer cam. Not huge differences, though.

- The accumulated opinion on the 2.2L Douvrin is they vary widely in drivability, depending on how the engine has been treated over it's life and how well the fuel injection is working. I'd agree on this, too. None of them go that hard, though (James - are you _sure_ about that Mi16 straight line thing? Sounds almost impossible!)

- If you have any electronics-oriented skills, fitting aftermarket EFI seems like a great option to free up some ponies. Graham Wallis claims to have had excellent results with Megasquirt, something I'd love to try myself.

- The only reason I've ever heard of these failing (although I'm sure there are plenty which failed for other reasons) is due to the front cam seal behind the timing sprocket. If the seal isn't changed (normally when timing belt is due), they invariably start leaking and either prematurely wear the timing belt (SNAP ) or the thing just runs out of oil.

- They are a royal PITA to work on, especially starter motor and dissy (the distributor is under the inlet manifold.) Can't be much worse than an Mi16 though, I guess. .

- They're noisy, but have a decent exhaust note .

- Auto box = slugbox. I have a natural mistrust of both, the 4 speed is very rare (only fitted to wagons maybe?), allegedly better for drivability but worse for reliability. If I were you I'd hold out for a manual (esp. if you want to use it in a motorkhana!)

Hope some of this helps. . I've been reminiscing about my 505 STI (w/ retrofitted GTI injection) while I work on my diesel slugmobile.

[Demannu]

GTI's were avaliable from 1984 (late) through till the end of production, so both series 1 and series 2 cars.

The pre-1986 models were Leaded fuel engines, and went much better.

Automatics feel boring, heavy and slow. Manual GTi's KICK ASS. I know there's many a hot 205, 206 and 306 that can't keep up with me in the hills in my 505.

The pick of the crop is the December 1985 build 505 GTI Series 2 5 speed (that's what I've got). Leaded engine in the series 2 car. Perfect.

Peugeot was smart, when they realised that they could only sell unleaded models after January 1st 1986, they imported a whole lot of the new series 2 cars and complied them before the cutoff. So there are a few around to be had, unfortunately 95% of them are autos.

The other advantage of the Leaded models is that you can do silly things with the engine without having to cope with the 1986 ADRs - for example, V6 engines without catalytic converters

People get sick of auto 505s pretty quick apparently, although not complete slugs, they're still nothing impressive. Stocko 5 speeders will hold their own with V6 Commodores, and will leave many cars for dead in the twisties. Noone sells 5 speed GTi's, so they tend to go for a fair bit more (double the price for cheaper ones). They also use less fuel. And no, you can't have mine

[Demannu]

None of them go that hard, though (James - are you _sure_ about that Mi16 straight line thing? Sounds almost impossible!)

I have both an Mi16 and a 505 GTi 5 speed. The 505 is quicker. By the time the Mi16 comes on cam, the 505 is already miles ahead. If you rev the motor in the Mi16 before you take off, then dump the clutch, you break traction too easily and the 505 still wins. In the wet, the Mi16 will never get traction, but the 505 has no troubles.

My next challenge is making the 505 suspension feel more like the Mi16 in stiffness and roll, but I don't want that from wheel drive feel that the Mi16 is cursed with. I'm going to try to measure the spring rates, no load camber and castor angles, lower control arm angle and swaybar thickness and leverage of the 405, then try to duplicate it in the 505, and see how it works with RWD.

[James504]

Stock 89 505 Turbo (Blackie) vs. Stock 405 Mi16 (rolling start)

http://www.505turbo.com/video/405vs505.wmv

Edit- some more very interesting pug videos here .
http://www.505turbo.com/videos.php

[AllezLePug]

At the end of the day its a 505 and a GTi.

So the auto box is a slug! Who cares. Unless your a regional courier in the Northern Territory, you'll see the right side of 110km/hr.

I say buy it and enjoy.

[raver]

I've driven both the 4-sp slugomatic and 5-sp manual series2 505GTI's and I have to agree the manual is by far the way to go, problem is finding a series 2 manual, you could always retrofit a 5sp g/box into an series2 GTI auto.

[tassiediesel]

I had a '85 S1 GTI and it handled like it was on rails. Here in NW Tassie the roads are just phenomenal and driving a car that handles and points like a GTI puts a permanent smile on your face! My SRDT is a wallowing hippopotamus by comparison. My GTI was a 5 speed and the gear ratios were perfect for hilly, twisting roads. I sold it last year to a fellow frogger from Launceston for $1000 and have regretted it ever since. I should have put my diesel engine into her!
Not sure I agree with the comments on FWD cars. My Golfs will leave most RWD cars for dead on our roads...having said that they aren't a match for the 505 GTI, especially in the wet!

[Ralph]

Our '90 505GTi wagon has a 4HP22 in it and it is a bit of a slug. My father has a 5sp 505STi and I reckon it out performs the wagon. The wagon is a great car though, my wife drives it and loves it. Plenty of room in the back, she can fit an entire netball team in there.

Matt.

[MR604]

We have a '85 S2 GTI (the first shipment to come over) with a 3 spd auto . The thing is a slug around town, but once you get out on the open road it's brilliant. Find some winding road and it's a real hoot.

[Pug_405_Mi16]

We have one of those late 1985 S2 5 Speed GTI's what a top car, I had another one a couple of years back which I regret selling....bloody great cars.


Cheers

Ben

[Gus]

Wow, anyone on this thread who admits to having owned a 505 GTI also regrets selling it, that's pretty impressive. .

James - There's a bit of a difference between a 505 Turbo and a 505 GTI. . Different base engine, very different specs. Oh, and one's got a big ol' turbo. .

Scott - I'm impressed to hear that. Having never driven an Mi16 I could only guess from watching other people drive 'em (and what I read.) Live and learn.

I definitely miss my pseudo- (suspension and engine, but not body) GTI.

[crosspug]

Wow, anyone on this thread who admits to having owned a 505 GTI also regrets selling it, that's pretty impressive. .

I definitely miss my pseudo- (suspension and engine, but not body) GTI.

Yeah this thread is certainly an eye opener!!

Never drove a GTi, the STi is still in the drive and I still look at it thinking of the fun that was had with it. My auto STi was my first car, but the current manual STi is a much better car (performance, economy and FUN wise)

What can I say...... All that torque......

As has been said before 505 (in this case an STi) vs a Mi16 (well BX16valve). Two totally different cars, two totally different driving styles, neither bad but the 505 certainly less care needed about what gear your in etc....... And those seats.....

But having said that, it is an old *feeling* car (yes it does have modern appointments) but compared to a 405 etc you can certainly tell the decade difference in interior and so on.

I certainly will never regret the BX16v as it is such a nice car to drive and is always entertaining. But the 505 is still VERY special, for me at least.

Jono

[Jack Z]

Joel...

It's all been said... comparing a 505 which is a RWD car designed in the 70's to the more contempary 80's FWD design of a 405 or BX or Xantia is really difficult.

I guess it all comes down to what you want and can afford...

Let's also understand that a 505 will be almost 10 years older than a Xantia or 405 or even a late BX and a generation away from a 306....

I think your greatest joy is talking about it and that's ok because we all shared that as young drivers and enthusiasts....at the end of the day... get you $$$ sorted have cash in hand and look at ALL the cars that apeal to you in that budget and decide on what the best one is at the time... it's really as simple as that...too much information and too many options can lead to confusion... and these discussions really should be had the week before we are going to seriously look... and even then it's YOUR choice... you ultimately have to be happy with what you decide..

There are plenty of Xantia's around under $10k... lots of nice late model BX's for around $3-4 (tops) and I'm sure a few nice 505's as well.. but don't discount the 405's... and in this price range you find some very nice Renault 19's (5SPEED ONLY!!!!!) which I presonally think is a briliant first car... They haven't dated, have all the bells and whistles and a 95 1.8 litre can be found with patience for between $5 and $7 with some bargains to be had...

You also have a good selection of Saab's in both a 900 and 900 series which are terrfic value for money and a hell of a lot of car for the $$'s in the $5k - $9k price range... and whilst I love my Cit's etc... a Saab 900 / 9000 would makek a great, safe and reliable first car... and would cost no more or less than an equvialent French car to keep on the road...

Good luck with it all... and remember... PARALYSIS BY ANALYSIS... !

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

Yeah this thread is certainly an eye opener!!

Never drove a GTi, the STi is still in the drive and I still look at it thinking of the fun that was had with it. My auto STi was my first car, but the current manual STi is a much better car (performance, economy and FUN wise)

What can I say...... All that torque......

As has been said before 505 (in this case an STi) vs a Mi16 (well BX16valve). Two totally different cars, two totally different driving styles, neither bad but the 505 certainly less care needed about what gear your in etc....... And those seats.....

But having said that, it is an old *feeling* car (yes it does have modern appointments) but compared to a 405 etc you can certainly tell the decade difference in interior and so on.

I certainly will never regret the BX16v as it is such a nice car to drive and is always entertaining. But the 505 is still VERY special, for me at least.

Jono

Don't know about torque, I find these engines lacking below 3500 whether STi or GTi.
My Gti does have good power to 6500 now I have fitted a 2" aftermarket exhaust system and it has a real bark to it, doesn't go as well as the Megasquirt engine but a lot of fun on gravel roads.
Of all my cars the 505 GTi gets used the most because it is just so comfortable and nice to drive. This car has had a hugely hard life but keeps coming back for more. It is a series 1 (with the nice interior stying and instrument panel that isn't blocked by the steering wheel).
I will probably get rid of my 404s when the 205 rally car and 203 are going and just use the 505 for all of the hard work, maybe raise the suspension so I can use it for the rough road work that 404 is getting at the moment.
There is no doubt that the 505 in any form was the strongest Peugeot ever made.
Graham

[Gus]

... the current manual STi is a much better car (performance, economy and FUN wise)

I'm glad she's still making people happy (I assume it's the same car.) Still got the big ol' dent?

[pips]

I did the incorrect thing and bought a cheap 405 Mi16 off an old lady, first owner, who serviced it at the same place all it's life. Never broke down, etc. Until I picked it up, drove it home, with the thing leaking coolant all of a sudden, and a whole bunch of other issues that have been well documented on this forum.

In hindsight, I should have bought myself a 505 of some sort for half the price, and I would have been a happy froggy. I still love my frogs, but once the 405 is fixed and sold, I'll be looking very hard for a 505 STI or GTI at least. Manual of course.

Reason why? 99% of the time, all you will read about 505's on here is praise. Naturally, the other 1% is when something breaks, which can happen on any car, anytime.

pips

[KIMDEB]

We have a '85 S2 GTI (the first shipment to come over) with a 3 spd auto . The thing is a slug around town, but once you get out on the open road it's brilliant. Find some winding road and it's a real hoot.

I have to agree with this, and many of the other quotes.

We have an 84 505 Executive (5 speed - ZDJK motor) as well as a late 85 build (86 compliance) S2 GTI 3 speed auto (ZDJL motor).

The ZDJK is the perfect engine for a wide torque band, excellent flexibility at low RPM's, & very good economy (8.6 l/100 km) open road with 4 up & the A/C operating.

The leaded GTI engine, in 3 speed auto guise, is somewhat docile below 3000 RPM, & in that mode of travel (city / suburban driving) tends to guzzle the fuel a bit.

However, get the car on the open road, with a few curves etc, and both the car & engine are transformed. The fuel consumption actually reduces, and whilst not approaching 5 speed manual figures, 700 + km is still achievable per tank. Cruising above 110-115 though, does show the limitation of 3 speeds, and an overdrive 4th gear would be welcome. Or a 5 speed manual gear box!

Anybody done an auto to manual conversion?

I agree that the 505's are very strong & safe vehicles in terms of body & suspension, and these factors must explain why this model continues to stay on the list of the NRMA's safest top 10 used cars.

Cheers,
Kim.

[bowie]

as long as ppl regard the 505 as a Grand, or Super Tourer... with injection, ppl will never be disapointed.

The car just makes bucket loads more sence sitting on 130od, navigating down any given major highway / autobahn

Getting to speed isnt a struggle, but of course greater power would never be fround upon.

I love my Manual STI to bits, love the simplified dash layout, over the later GTi's and like i mentioned, you could hop in i suppose, any given 505 and drive it a 1000km knowning full well you will travell in upmost comfort the entire time. And thats really not an understantment..

For something with a nimble thrash in mind, find something with a smaller wheelbase, but for everything else.. and the occasional thrash, you really would be hard pressed to find something that makes a compromise with everything all at once to deliver everything in a reasonably high standard.

Still needs a few more ponies tho

[Sergetov]

The 505 3sp auto GTi would be a great tourer were it not for two fatal flaws:

1) The engine is doing 3-4000rpm at around 110-120km/h
2) The factory sunroof makes more noise than the space shuttle on take-off. One is usually presented with 2 choices in this regard. A serial killer inspiring whistle with roof closed, or the space shuttle when open. Maybe this was unique to the one I spent time in, although he has tried rebuilding it numerous times!

Its lovely inside though (assuming the leather is still in good condition), very comfy seats. The suspension calibration ensures that the ride is very comfortable. Its another league to the current Pug range in this regard. When in deent nic, the steering is also very nice and communicative.

However, this car is no back-road weapon. The brakes are outdated, and its limits are simply not as high as modern cars, like the 206, or even the 306. It may have been nothing short of brilliance in its day, but I would'nt want to over-sell it to Joel.

A worthy first car if your prepared to get your hands dirty, otherwise expenses can get away with you if your not careful when car hunting.

How much do 505 GTi's go for these days anyway?

[STALLED]

Well thanks heaps for that guys - The car which I have found is a Auto, not sure if its a 4 speeder or a 3 but I assume its a 3. So the motor did run off a cambelt design - I was allways under the presumption that they had a chain system? So did they come in S1 and S2 - seems to be a bit of confusion in the earlier posts here?

As for the whole "Why a 505" - I thought they would be a good car for a year or so, seem fairly reliable and it would be somthing which I wouldnt keep for very long and sell the next year and get somthing like a 306. I havent discredited the Citroens yet, Xantias are amazing value and the BX's are to some extent but ill have keep my eye out for them still. Dont worry - as much as id like a Mi16, ive given up on the idea they seem to be a tad to expensive to maintain as a first car - from all accounts they seem allmost tempremental.

I have looked into the Saab/Volvo's but to be honest - Im a huge fan of the 9000, I would prefer a manual, the 9000 would be a car I would keep for a considerable amount of time. Not a fan at all of the "GM" 900. Volvo's offer good value but to be honest - the whole idea of me driving a "850" for a first car doesnt really appeal to me....if you know what I mean (It would be a very different story if it was a T5-R )

They seem a bit of a slug performance wise in auto guise - I'm not out to break land speed records, but then again I dont mind a bit of power. Seem to handle nice from all accounts - I have no idea as to the condition of the car, Ill have to speak to the owner and have a look at it, see what its like?

If it doesnt work out, no big deal - there will allways be another car!

Anyways thanks heaps again - great advice!

Joel

[Pug_405_Mi16]

I know this is a big call but I think the 505 could possibly be the best peugeot ever built....I love them to bits!!

A nice STI or GTI is a very good thing....

Ben

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

Well thanks heaps for that guys - The car which I have found is a Auto, not sure if its a 4 speeder or a 3 but I assume its a 3. So the motor did run off a cambelt design - I was allways under the presumption that they had a chain system? So did they come in S1 and S2 - seems to be a bit of confusion in the earlier posts here?

As for the whole "Why a 505" - I thought they would be a good car for a year or so, seem fairly reliable and it would be somthing which I wouldnt keep for very long and sell the next year and get somthing like a 306. I havent discredited the Citroens yet, Xantias are amazing value and the BX's are to some extent but ill have keep my eye out for them still. Dont worry - as much as id like a Mi16, ive given up on the idea they seem to be a tad to expensive to maintain as a first car - from all accounts they seem allmost tempremental.

I have looked into the Saab/Volvo's but to be honest - Im a huge fan of the 9000, I would prefer a manual, the 9000 would be a car I would keep for a considerable amount of time. Not a fan at all of the "GM" 900. Volvo's offer good value but to be honest - the whole idea of me driving a "850" for a first car doesnt really appeal to me....if you know what I mean (It would be a very different story if it was a T5-R )

They seem a bit of a slug performance wise in auto guise - I'm not out to break land speed records, but then again I dont mind a bit of power. Seem to handle nice from all accounts - I have no idea as to the condition of the car, Ill have to speak to the owner and have a look at it, see what its like?

If it doesnt work out, no big deal - there will allways be another car!

Anyways thanks heaps again - great advice!

Joel

I have a series 1 so they DO exist! The series 1s all have sunroofs.
Graham