206 GTI 180 Versus MK1 Renault Sport Clio
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  1. #1
    Tadpole Trent's Avatar
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    Icon14 206 GTI 180 Versus MK1 Renault Sport Clio

    Hi all, Its been along time since I've posted but I spent a short time not owning a french car. My history has been 1991 Peugeot 405 Mi16, MK1 Renault Sport Clio,, 1989 Peugeot 205 GTI and now the proud owner of a 2004 Peugeot 206 GTI 180.

    Can I just say that I think that the 206 GTI 180 is a worthy successor to the 205 GTI. Contrary to what I have read the 206 feels similar in more ways than one. Firstly the steering is quite heavy in both cars. Secondly the suspension is very firm yet controlled and driving positions are also similar. The 206 handles really well. So well that I think it handles better than the Clio........except perhaps in the braking department

    The engines have a similar feel in power but the Pug sounds noiser at very high revs. I have no complaints with the 206 engine, its so smooth during accelleration its a beautiful noise. The induction and exhaust noise are great and I swear I can hear a "swoosh" sound in the higher rev range changing up through the gears, say above 5000 rpm. As for pulling power I reckon the Clio pips it for pace especially lower down. However, we must remember that the Clio weighs in at 1009 or 1035 kg (Can't remember which for the MK1 ) compared to the 206 at 1100 so that could be explained by the excess weight. The 206 has a smooth gearbox with a light shift action which I think is lighter that the Clio and just as positive. Styling wise the 206 kills the Clio inside and out although beauty is always seen in the eye of the beholder....personal opinion only. The rims on the 206 look awesome compared to the rims on the MK1 Clio which were very hard to keep cleans due to the design.

    The 206 I have just bought had 34000 km on the clock. I extended the warranty for another 2 yrs also. Its Aegean Blue and standard apart from a LSD. Handling wise I really think that the 206 handles better, especially at the limit to which I have driven both cars. That route (For those Adelaide people in the know) consists of Magil Road from Teringie up to Norton Summitt then onto lobethal and back, man what a fantastic, piece of testing raod that is. That trip is loaded with sharp 25 and 35 km corners with a mostly excellent road surface. Its on this stretch that I have driven both cars and its based on my impressions that the 206 handles better......except for the brakes. I think the 206 pedal feel is softer compared to the Clio and requires more pedal effort to pull the car up. Don't get me wrong the 206 breaking is very very good but the clio is slightly better for feel and progression.

    The 206 has switchable ESP which I had turned off for the trip. The Clio did not have this function. For all my trying I could not "lose" the 206 but I did manage to step the rear of the Clio's tail out at least once. The front pads on the 206 squeal around town but on the drive (Once they were warned up I think) the squeal disapperared The suspension on the clio was softer and not as firm as the 206 but all in all the 206 hangs on better but is more harsh around the burbs. I think the rim size/tyre combo differences between the two cars is the reason here. After all we are talking 15 inch rims on the Clio compared to 17 inch rims on the 206. Because of this the Clio is easier to drive around the city given its smaller rims.

    I'm still thinking about my next trip up the Norton Summitt Road man it is just sensational!!

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    Anyway the best points about the Clio are (when compared to the 206) : Engine, gearbox, suspension (metro), Exhaust sound, straight line accelleration, interior space.

    Worst points (compared to 206) : Exterior shape, interior styling, Rims (Shite to keep clean), handling at the limit (my limit), driving position.

    Best points about the 206 (compared to clio): Engine, Gearbox, Handling, suspension (good road), styling in and out, driving postion, challlenging road handling is phenomenal. Quick changes of direction are more fluid than the Clio. e.g - chicanes. Its easier to drive fast.

    Worst points (compared to Clio): suspension on poor surfaces, under dash rattle (minor), probably not as fast in a straight line compared to the MK1. A better handler than the clio just not faster.

    Out of 5 stars overall I give both cars 4. Both have strong points and weaker points, but I think overall generally they even out against each other. My worth.

    Enjoy your performance Pugs and Renaults, Trent.

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Icon14 'Ere we go again



    Hey Di, it's on again.
    Pulls up chair and waits for fur(frogs-legs I mean ) to fly.
    Did you ever watch Fawlty Towers Trent??

    Shhhh..Don't mention the war

    Edit: But seriouslyYou are one of the lucky few who has had serious drives in those mentioned cars and your views are actually very unbiased which in this arguement is a welcome change I must say that.
    Last edited by HONG KONG PUGGY; 24th February 2006 at 10:59 PM. Reason: adding sensible parts & title
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  3. #3
    Tadpole Trent's Avatar
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    Icon10

    Thanks for your concern HKP, I don't care whether this sets the fur or frogs legs flying or not. I posted it giving my opinion as an enthusiast. I don't profess to be a motoring journalist or an expert driver. The comments made we an expression of my point of view, having owned both cars. However, If you have owned or driven both cars HKP, I would like to hear what your comments are .

    Quote Originally Posted by HONG KONG PUGGY


    Hey Di, it's on again.
    Pulls up chair and waits for fur(frogs-legs I mean ) to fly.
    Did you ever watch Fawlty Towers Trent??

    Shhhh..Don't mention the war

    Edit: But seriouslyYou are one of the lucky few who has had serious drives in those mentioned cars and your views are actually very unbiased which in this arguement is a welcome change I must say that.

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts gti138's Avatar
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    Welcome aboard! We should be having an adelaide run in the next few weeks. U Turn is looking at organising a dyno day which should be a bit of fun too! For lots of 206 specific info check out 206gti.net

    Just a hint - the comparo's between the clio and the 206 tend to get people fairly "polarised" Dont take it personally though

    You bought LeighO's car didnt you? The LSD is a dead giveaway. I know he's missing the car lots!
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  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! nos205gti's Avatar
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    l cant say anything,, you are fully right my friend.thank you this is really good seriously..

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! codgamer's Avatar
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    I know the engine sounds great!! I went from Cobber Pedy to Alice Springs some of the roads there are pretty straight so I got up to 220 - 240, the car sounds like a jet plane about to take off.

    Codgamer.
    Arden Red 2006 206 GTi 180 (Hong Kong)
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  7. #7
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Trent,
    I hope ypu didn't take anything I said as being negative. I applaud you for posting a very unbiased and informed view of both cars which as I said is a welcome change around here. I can only comment on the fact that I ahve driven the Clio Sport and I am not sure now what model it even was as it was near on 2 years ago. I only drove it a short distance but it was a willing machine nonthe less even with 4 adult males on board.
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  8. #8
    Member minigolf's Avatar
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    Well, the MINI is better than both. Haha, just kidding seriously, no intention to cause any grief. Thanks for the review, good stuff.

    Just an observation on your comment about turning off the ESP. Would you normally do that? And how would you feel if you stacked it and the ESP was switched off?

    I'm not having a go, just curious. I've rarely swicthed off the DSC in my MINI on public roads. I've thought to, but I just think what a goose I would feel if it went pear shaped and I had the function that could have potentially saved me deactivated.

    On the track it's a bit different, especially coming out of the horse shoe at Wakefield. But even then, after days at Wakefield and Eastern Creek I have to say the DSC is actually pretty good.

    On the Pugs and Renaults is the ESP very intrusive?


  9. #9
    Tadpole Trent's Avatar
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    Thanks for your support guys, I did not intent to cause a stir, just wanted to add my thoughts on the this well documented debate. MiniGolf, my brother in law has an HSV clubsport an he whinges at the intrusive traction control on his, no formal ESP though. I guess that thought have filtered into switching off the ESP in my car but you are right I would feel like an idiot if I did stack it with ESP off. I have to admit that I have not driven to 206 quickly with ESP on but Iv'e gotta say I didn't feel that it needed to be on. I only drove with it off as I wanted to see how far I could take it. Next time I take the drive I will turn it on to see how it goes. If it doesn't intrude too much then I will leave it on. I dare say that it would take a better driver than me to casue the ESP any alarm.

    Yes GTI 138 I bought the car from Leigh, he lives a stones throw away from my place so I didn't have to go very far to buy it and yest I have been to 206gti.net. Some really helpful advice and info there!

    HKP, disregard my tongue in cheek comment, I did not read your Edit: But Seriously bit at the end of your post before I posted.

    All.

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Mate i reckon that swoosh is the green cotton air filter. I won it at the Rendezvous Adelaide dinner. Cant remember what for though

    I thought it was just me when i heard that sound every now and then but i guess i wasnt crazy after all!

  11. #11
    moosey
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    Drive a 180 without an LSD and you might think differently. You aren't exactly comparing apples with apples.

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    Fellow Frogger! BW205's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moosey
    Drive a 180 without an LSD and you might think differently. You aren't exactly comparing apples with apples.
    so true
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  13. #13
    Member minigolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trent
    … MiniGolf, my brother in law has an HSV clubsport an he whinges at the intrusive traction control on his, no formal ESP though. I guess that thought have filtered into switching off the ESP in my car but you are right I would feel like an idiot if I did stack it with ESP off. I have to admit that I have not driven to 206 quickly with ESP on but Iv'e gotta say I didn't feel that it needed to be on. I only drove with it off as I wanted to see how far I could take it. Next time I take the drive I will turn it on to see how it goes. If it doesn't intrude too much then I will leave it on…
    No worries, cheers for the reply. Keep enjoying the car anyway, you have some seriously good roads in your neck of the woods.



    Cheers Liam

  14. #14
    Tadpole Trent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeighO
    Mate i reckon that swoosh is the green cotton air filter. I won it at the Rendezvous Adelaide dinner. Cant remember what for though

    I thought it was just me when i heard that sound every now and then but i guess i wasnt crazy after all!

    Leigh I didn't know you put a green cotton filter in the intake, thats good because I was going to buy one. Just out of interest did it come with cleaning oil?

    Trent. (ps - Looking after the car, just washed and polished it this arvo)

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts rustymunga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trent
    Trent. (ps - Looking after the car, just washed and polished it this arvo)
    Aren't they great!!!

    Great review dude.

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! Dr_Pug's Avatar
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    Interesting review

    Quote Originally Posted by Trent

    As for pulling power I reckon the Clio pips it for pace especially lower down. However, we must remember that the Clio weighs in at 1009 or 1035 kg (Can't remember which for the MK1 ) compared to the 206 at 1100so that could be explained by the excess weight.
    However, I find this comment hard to believe, considering that the 180 air fuel mixture goes into 12/13s @ 2700 nm/the wheels and holds it there for the whole run where as the clio has no fuel until its gets to the 14s @ 4600 nm/the wheels.

    The fuel curve affects the torque and in this case the 180 pulls harder down low.
    04' GTi 180

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trent
    Leigh I didn't know you put a green cotton filter in the intake, thats good because I was going to buy one. Just out of interest did it come with cleaning oil?
    Nope. Came with a dead bug actually
    its only been on since maybe oct/nov

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Pug
    Interesting review
    However, I find this comment hard to believe, considering that the 180 air fuel mixture goes into 12/13s @ 2700 nm/the wheels and holds it there for the whole run where as the clio has no fuel until its gets to the 14s @ 4600 nm/the wheels.

    The fuel curve affects the torque and in this case the 180 pulls harder down low.
    You are completely ignoring the gear ratios though and thats why the clio feels / is slightly quicker.

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! Dr_Pug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeighO
    You are completely ignoring the gear ratios though and thats why the clio feels / is slightly quicker.
    The comment refers to both the clio and GTi at a rolling start in 3rd gear in shoot out mode 4 where the 3rd gear in the 180 isnt tall if not identical. The air fuel ratio speaks for itself, power is made at 12s in the 180 and 14:1 on the clio, 2700rpm vrs 4500rpm nm @ the wheels.

    How does the Clio have more torque down low?
    04' GTi 180

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gti138
    You bought LeighO's car didnt you? The LSD is a dead giveaway. I know he's missing the car lots!
    I was going to say the same thing!

    Trent, congrats on the purchase, you've bought a fantastic machine. Great review too.

    Dr pug, I don't think Leigh said the Clio's engine actually has more torque down low, but just that it feels like it does possibly due to gearing (and as Trent has said, the lower weight). I haven't yet driven a '180 with the latest ecu updates, which I've heard make it stronger down low??, but of the ones I've driven, the clio does actually feel torquier down low. Feels more torquier than my gti6 too.
    Take the long way home....

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  21. #21
    Tadpole Trent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by U Turn
    I was going to say the same thing!

    Trent, congrats on the purchase, you've bought a fantastic machine. Great review too.

    Dr pug, I don't think Leigh said the Clio's engine actually has more torque down low, but just that it feels like it does possibly due to gearing (and as Trent has said, the lower weight). I haven't yet driven a '180 with the latest ecu updates, which I've heard make it stronger down low??, but of the ones I've driven, the clio does actually feel torquier down low. Feels more torquier than my gti6 too.
    Can someone explain how one would obtain the latest ecu updates, I take it from the dealer? Is there a cost factor involved and is it worth doing?

    Trent.

  22. #22
    Member Ekliptix's Avatar
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    I was going to ask the same thing Trent.

    My 180 is going in for it's first service this Friday and I was going to enquire about getting the latest ECU update if it's available. I'll let you know how I go.
    2005 Aegean Blue 206 GTI 180

  23. #23
    Tadpole Trent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekliptix
    I was going to ask the same thing Trent.

    My 180 is going in for it's first service this Friday and I was going to enquire about getting the latest ECU update if it's available. I'll let you know how I go.
    I would appreciate that, thanks mate.

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! qd180's Avatar
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    I love how this pot gets stired ever cople of months.....

    Very objective points though.....

    The 180 is better........... cause ive got one
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  25. #25
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekliptix
    I was going to ask the same thing Trent.

    My 180 is going in for it's first service this Friday and I was going to enquire about getting the latest ECU update if it's available. I'll let you know how I go.
    Well, one could always ask them

    Seriously though, if it's the first service it will probably be plugged in anyway to check for faults. Failing that, why not ask them to check for you? I've not heard of a Sydney dealer charging for Diag2000* (or Planet Peugeot I believe it's called these days...) time, but some other states have tried this on.

    *Just in case you were wondering, the computer used is called a Diag2000, though when the 407 turned up, a new system called Planet Peugeot (I think!) was introduced.
    Regards,

    Simon

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