Ignition Switch 205 GTi
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  1. #1
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    Default Ignition Switch 205 GTi

    I had a relay installed yesterday and after doing a check found that the solenoid was receiving voltage after ignition, this is a good reason why my starter was stuffed, if it did not disengage after starting.

    Anyway it appears the ignition switch is worn and could be the culprit, my question is what does a new barrel and switch cost? It comes with a wire tail to plug in to the loom in the dash so it should be available. I plan to remove the barrel and use mine with the new switch behind it so I can keep my keys as is.

    Ideas on where and how much would be appreciated.

    Matt
    Red '88 205GTi

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  2. #2
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    ok some time ago i decided i'd get a copy of the key to my S1 205 and it was ok on the doors but a little tight on the ignition. disregarding this thinking its a new key and eventually will file down with wear it got stuck in the ignition. i removed the barrel and took it to a locksmith to remove the key which they did but stuffed the barrel in the process. i purchased a new ignition barrel, which comes as one assembly along with the wiring(& 2 keys - made by Valeo) and replaced it. not sure what theyre worth but i payed £20.00($50) for it from ebay. the 2 plugs(might be different on yours tho i doubt it) for the wiring is accessed from inside the glovebox(top RHS) and runs behind the heater controls to the steering column(i do advise when u remove the wiring to tape up a draw-wire to make it easier to install again as it is a bit messy back there!). you have to lower the steering column tho to remove the barrel, the haynes manual was great help. i put a tiny bit of (sewing machine)oil on the old key for the door locks and they turn much much easier & smoother now. btw the assembly can be separated from the wiring by removing 2 screws form behind the barrel but after the barrel has been removed. i still have the old ignition if its only the wiring u want, PM me. hope this helps.
    Puggy.

  3. #3
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    Puggy,

    sounds good as mine is a series 1 as well so there "should" be no diffierence. I will do a search on Ebay now too for a new barrel, and switch and harness, keys too. Yes I spoke to a mechanic and he said that is what comes with the genuine bits as well.

    $50 is a good price, it took me the best part of several hours to get in there and I got as far as thinking of pulling the lower part of the dash out to get to the wiring, which I will do and tidy it up and put a draw wire in for the new one.

    It is only the wiring that I am after, my key is fine it has worn in and was easy to turn, before I f*&^ked it in removing and dissasembling the barrel. I know the two screws you refer to quite well. The wear is in the switch the wiring connects to.

    PM on its way!

    Matt
    Quote Originally Posted by 205puggypower
    ok some time ago i decided i'd get a copy of the key to my S1 205 and it was ok on the doors but a little tight on the ignition. disregarding this thinking its a new key and eventually will file down with wear it got stuck in the ignition. i removed the barrel and took it to a locksmith to remove the key which they did but stuffed the barrel in the process. i purchased a new ignition barrel, which comes as one assembly along with the wiring(& 2 keys - made by Valeo) and replaced it. not sure what theyre worth but i payed £20.00($50) for it from ebay. the 2 plugs(might be different on yours tho i doubt it) for the wiring is accessed from inside the glovebox(top RHS) and runs behind the heater controls to the steering column(i do advise when u remove the wiring to tape up a draw-wire to make it easier to install again as it is a bit messy back there!). you have to lower the steering column tho to remove the barrel, the haynes manual was great help. i put a tiny bit of (sewing machine)oil on the old key for the door locks and they turn much much easier & smoother now. btw the assembly can be separated from the wiring by removing 2 screws form behind the barrel but after the barrel has been removed. i still have the old ignition if its only the wiring u want, PM me. hope this helps.
    Puggy.

  4. #4
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    Hey Matt, Sounds like it’s a bit late to ask, but when you say the starter is stuffed, do you mean that it just wouldn't turn over with the key, maybe just a click sound? I have recently had major issues with the starter doing just that. After a lot of stuffing around with the solenoid I thought that it could be a worn ignition switch so I fitted a relay into the line (same as you I assume). I then found that there was always a small current being supplied to the solenoid (as you have found) when the ignition is on. This kept the relay engaged so the starter won’t turn off! I scrapped that idea & found that one of the springs that hold the brushes on the commutator in the starter was bent in half & a bit melted! Replaced that & all’s good!
    Just thought this might be the same problem with yours. Cheap fix too ! -Will
    1990 205Gti
    1976 504 rally car (currently out of action)

  5. #5
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    Sounds very simialr, exactly the same in fact I will have to take another look at the starter. The solenoid and starter were recently rebuilt as they were stuffed. Symptoms exactly like yours infact. I am very curious now as the rebuilder said it was stuffed and charged accordingly, I wonder!

    Its a bit of a bugger to get in there again but you never knwo until you look do you.

    Matt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew
    ...The solenoid and starter were recently rebuilt as they were stuffed...
    I had only put new brushes & springs in the starter no more than a month before it started play up too. -Will
    1990 205Gti
    1976 504 rally car (currently out of action)

  7. #7
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    Guys thaks for the help so far, the issue is that I have approx 8 volts present on the solenoid after starting which I think has previously caused the starter to stay engaged, by by starter! Well its fixed now and it is still happening.

    My question the knowledgeable is this:

    Are there any relays between the key/ignition switch and the solenoid in a series 1 1987 205GTi? If not then is it possible to get a remnant / remaining 8 volts DC from the ignition switch because I cannot tell where the heck its coming from. Will do some wiring checks tomorrow in the light of the day.

    Matt

  8. #8
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    Default Ingnition switch

    Hi I have an ignition switch and wiring loom for sale if interested

    Regards
    Glen Seeley

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew
    Guys thaks for the help so far, the issue is that I have approx 8 volts present on the solenoid after starting which I think has previously caused the starter to stay engaged, by by starter! Well its fixed now and it is still happening.

    My question the knowledgeable is this:

    Are there any relays between the key/ignition switch and the solenoid in a series 1 1987 205GTi? If not then is it possible to get a remnant / remaining 8 volts DC from the ignition switch because I cannot tell where the heck its coming from. Will do some wiring checks tomorrow in the light of the day.

    Matt
    Did you find anything? Some one let me know otherwise but I think this 8volts might be normal. As I have said, my car is the same but it's not enough current to engage the solenoid. I think it could possibly be an earth from something else. You will know if the starter is engaging when the motor is running, the engine idles fast & you can hear it rattling. -Will
    1990 205Gti
    1976 504 rally car (currently out of action)

  10. #10
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    Did I find anything, well yes and no.

    Firstly I am an electrical engineer so I sat and thought about this and have come to one logical conclusion, there is somethign putting that 8 or so volts onto the solenoid switch wire, its high enough to hold in the little (30A automotive) relay I put in. The only thing it can be is an input on the ECU. Hear me out first before judging me though!

    The start of ignition will require enriched mixing so I fugure that the ECU is monitoring the solenoid switch line to do just this via its outputs. This input however is something dodgy as its not a typical high impedance output of say a TTL logic gate, its something more crude that is effictively a voltage divider of sorts that is backfeeding that voltage to the solenoid. As far as I can think or see there is nothing else that can do this in a car of this vintage.

    So the challenge is to make that relay drop out. A diode in the line that goes to the ECU would do the trick but where does it connect into this circuit?

    Over to the collective knowledge set on that one!

    regards,
    Matt

    PS, I broke the little switch that sits in behind the barrel so I will be taking someone up on their offer of a used item! Its functional but I would not like to use it like it is now permanently!

  11. #11
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    Well having looked at it a bit further and speaking to people I have changed my thoughts. The Series 1 ECU has no connection at all to the starter and takes a negative pulse off the coil for an indication of starting/running. Oh well I am an idiot.

    So the train of thought went to the coil itself, perhaps there is a ballast resistor in there doing something like this, giving 8 volts onto the starter solenoid? I am trying to understand why the coil would be connected to the solenoid in the first place though.

    I notice someone has done some investigation into the four wires in the ignition switch itself, so I will look at the wire involved tomorrow and report back. If its coming off this then I will have no option but to take out the relay for the immediate future until I sort this thing out.

  12. #12
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    Wauty 205 Re your starter problem,Is Mine similar?
    I am having problems with my 205SI starter motor. Fine when cold but every now and then when hot the solenoid hits but nothing turns. Try this 2-3 times and then nothing at all happens,no solenoid hit. Only solution wait for it to cool down then it works perfectly. This used to be rare but is getting more common. Battery has been replaced and charging circuit checked so that should be good. Its getting to the stage where its gotta be fixed.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul404
    Wauty 205 Re your starter problem,Is Mine similar?
    I am having problems with my 205SI starter motor. Fine when cold but every now and then when hot the solenoid hits but nothing turns. Try this 2-3 times and then nothing at all happens,no solenoid hit. Only solution wait for it to cool down then it works perfectly. This used to be rare but is getting more common. Battery has been replaced and charging circuit checked so that should be good. Its getting to the stage where its gotta be fixed.
    Sounds a bit like it! Trouble is that there are a number of reasons it might do it (or not do it). I think I have had more than my share .
    First, I it might need new brushes. It could also be the springs holding the brushes It could be the solenoid burnt out or it could simply be a bad soldered connection on the solenoid terminal. (I have had all these)
    The real pain with any of these is itís easiest to remove the starter & to do that you might need remove the inlet manifold (unless the car does not have air-con like mine, as I can squeeze it out under the car by only removing some piping)! Big job either way . -WIll
    1990 205Gti
    1976 504 rally car (currently out of action)

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