smokey 205gti
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Thread: smokey 205gti

  1. #1
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    Default smokey 205gti

    Hi all

    My beautiful 205gti is blowing white smoke and I'd like some opinions on how best to fix this please...

    Some background...

    After a major service (cam belts, radiator, muffler, oil change (semi-synth), aircon) the car now blows white smoke when hot (doesn't do it when cold) and always from startoff at the traffic lights.

    When travelling at speed it doesn't seem to do it (altough it's hard to tell). But from a standing start it billows out everywhere.

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    Car seems to be using both oil (about a schooner a fortnight) and water (about cup a fortnight) but it was doing this before and it wasn't smokey.

    An ideas? I've heard valve stem seals can be the problem but then I've also heard this doesn't always fix it.

    Have tried deglazing the bores to no avail. Have tried a heavier oil - no good. Have tried Nulon Stop Smoke - no luck. Even tried an Italian tune up.

    Just had a thought - if it mostly does it from a standstill position - would that indicate a lip on the bore?

    Any thoughts or ideas welcome!

    Graham

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts purrr-geot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graham66
    Even tried an Italian tune up.

    No, standing looking at the engine bay and waving your hands furiously wont help, i've tried that already.
    Last edited by purrr-geot; 21st February 2006 at 04:05 PM.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Your description indicates valve stem seals. When the car is standing still idling, there is a reasonably high vacuum in the engine. The vacuum draws oil down the stem of the inlet valves. When you open up the throttle, the oil is then burnt. To really confirm it, drive down a reasonably long hill at 60, then lift off suddenly, then back on again. The lift off at that speed will create an even higher vacuum. You should see smoke out the back.

    If oil was getting past the rings you'd see smoke all the time

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Thanks Peter - that makes good sense - cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by purrr-geot
    No, standing looking at the engine bay and waving your hands furiously wont help, i've tried that already.

    haha gold

  6. #6
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    Got the same prob with mine, tho mine smokes at traffic lights standing still not only on take off. It is also strange how it only happens when the car is hot, my suspicison is that the oil is getting stuck in the top of the engine and is getting sucked through the pcv valve. If it was valve stem seals then it would be smoky when you start up the car in the morn?
    Last edited by vespa; 21st February 2006 at 07:31 PM.

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    Fellow Frogger! nos205gti's Avatar
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    say,, goodbye or check your walet if you have $1500 you can re-condition your engine,,,or use for wrecking car. goodluck

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    Tadpole IBLOWN's Avatar
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    definately valve stem seals
    Peugeot 405 sri 94' everyday. Commodore once a month.

    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2213367

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    Quote Originally Posted by IBLOWN
    definately valve stem seals
    The synthetic oil is probably part of the problem as it is very fluid and will get past the seals easier.
    Try something like Penrite HPR 40 or HPR 50 or even just go back to normal 20w50.

    Graham

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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    The synthetic oil is probably part of the problem as it is very fluid and will get past the seals easier.
    Try something like Penrite HPR 40 or HPR 50 or even just go back to normal 20w50.

    Graham
    Using HPR30 and still smokey. HPR50?

    In a gti?

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    Tadpole Nick_405's Avatar
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    Ok, have you tried putting a piece of paper behind the exhaust pipe to see if any water(coolant) is comming out?? Do you have any water in your oil(it will look whitish) or oil in the water?

    This sounds pretty much exactly like what my car did(white smoke at the lights, only when hot, ect..) And it turned out to be a head gasket. I took the head off and the gasket was absolutely deteriorated. I then took the head to a workshop, had a full recon except the valve guides, pressure tested, machined.

    Anyway the whole procedure was about $320
    I reject the reality and substitute my own!!

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    I'm in EXACTLY the same boat as you! I've currently got 20W60 oil to minimise the amount burnt, but in the end, the heads gonna have to come off, and I'm saving like mad to get it done, and get it done right (since the head comes off, great opportunity for a full head rebuild).

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    Tadpole Nick_405's Avatar
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    By the way $320 approx. was what I spent on the whole exercise. VRS kit ~$150 (with head bolts) The brand was Elring, apparently it's good. Plus to get the head reconed was ~$160. Can remember the prices excactly but the whole thing was definitely less than $350.

    P.S. I did all the disassembly and assembly myself. Workshop only worked on the head
    I reject the reality and substitute my own!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by graham66
    Using HPR30 and still smokey. HPR50?

    In a gti?
    You said that you changed the oil to semi synthetic. Is HPR30 now semi synthetic?
    Graham

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Seems like there's a lot of assumptions here; how much oil do you actually need to use to top it up say every week?

    Might help to decipher if it's oil or water vapour that's chuffing out.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

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    if its only the stem seals u need i have them if needed. PM me.
    Puggy.

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Graham,

    I take it you know these can be done with the head insitu?

    I saw the valve lifter they use to do it at SuperCheap a few years back but they haven't had it since, however, I was in Repco a couple of weeks back when I was making up a valve spring compressor for a 16V and they produced a catalogue of v spring compressors which included the insitu variety.
    Saves you heaps on time and parts and hence cash.

    http://www.page.sannet.ne.jp/moribayashi/bxvstem.html



    Alan S
    Last edited by Alan S; 21st February 2006 at 11:52 PM.
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    You said that you changed the oil to semi synthetic. Is HPR30 now semi synthetic?
    Graham
    ... then said tried heavier oil with no luck.

    Quote Originally Posted by graham66
    Have tried a heavier oil - no good.
    Graham
    Back to question: HPR50?

    in a gti?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    Graham,

    I take it you know these can be done with the head insitu?

    I saw the valve lifter they use to do it at SuperCheap a few years back but they haven't had it since, however, I was in Repco a couple of weeks back when I was making up a valve spring compressor for a 16V and they produced a catalogue of v spring compressors which included the insitu variety.
    Saves you heaps on time and parts and hence cash.

    http://www.page.sannet.ne.jp/moribayashi/bxvstem.html



    Alan S
    Thanks Alan - will check it out. Thanks for that link too - great pics.

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    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    Back to question: HPR50?

    in a gti?
    hpr50 is a w40/70.....I think its way to thick for a little gti.....yes, sure the motor is reasonably torqey to trow it around but I think it isn t a good solution in the long run (esp on cold mornings).....
    A 25 70 is fine in an old motor with plenty of kays during peak of summer....
    If you want the ultimate temporary solution you need to throw in some NULON stop oil leak.....what it does to top end lubrication is an unknown quantity (depending on size of cam sprayers).....but give it a couple of hundred kays and it will almost totally cut back on smoke.....works really well with bad rings...
    Naturally itd be best if you can get the head off and do at leats a basic rebuild...get it decked and cleaned. Better compression etc etc
    good luck with it...


    cheers


    dino

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    Fellow Frogger! SydGTi6's Avatar
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    Another product useful as a temporary solution is called Xado. This will restore oil pressure and compression in most cases.

    This product comes in gel form - in three small tubes. Its a ceramic compound which hardens with friction and heat (ie:where your rings, bores or seals have become worn). It can be used in cars from new and wont void any factory warranty.

    The full treatment takes around 2000km but the effects can be noticed after around 150km or so. I've seen it stop white smoke in several old model cars with very high km engines. The effect is said to last for 10 or more oil changes - which is an almost permanent strategy. Performance is also enhanced as bores and rubbing surfaces are 'rebuilt' by the cermit layer formed and are therefore smoother. Take a look here: http://www.xadoshop.com.au/benzin.htm
    Black Peugeot 306 GTi6, Sydney Australia
    http://www.cardomain.com/id/sydvr6

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    Thank you for all the info guys - that's great, cheers.

    Graham

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    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    I think certain bits of this 1990 BX 16 valve for sale $3,500 ono
    is a better solution. Just don't let Alan, Shane, Craig or Chris(GB) know. - Chris
    ... ptui!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CHRI'S16
    I think certain bits of this 1990 BX 16 valve for sale $3,500 ono
    is a better solution. Just don't let Alan, Shane, Craig or Chris(GB) know. - Chris

    Hmmm, I'd prefer to keep the 205 stock.

    Dropping in a 16 valve would require uprated brakes etc etc, no?
    (Mine is a 90 with rear drums)

  25. #25
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    Ok, assuming I don't want to risk dropping a valve doing the in-situ trick...

    ...what's a reasonable price to pay for a basic rebuild - rings, bearings, valves, head job etc?

    allow $2000?

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