Damage to the anti-theft bolts on GTI-180
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  1. #1
    Member Mic_Col's Avatar
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    Default Damage to the anti-theft bolts on GTI-180

    Damn this sucks!

    I took my car in to be serviced a week ago. 21,000km on the clock, the front tires are wearing quite a bit on the outsides, the backs are quite good. I said for them to rotate the tires.

    They rang me an hour or so later at work saying they couldn't find the wheel lock nut adaptor thingies, which are supposed to be in the glovebox. I had no clue what they were referring to so I couldn't help them. So basically they didn't do the tire rotation. They told me to try and locate the nut adaptors or they would have to hammer the bolt with like a cold chisel or something to get it off and he said that could damage the rims.

    Later I found the nut adaptor things in the back, in the bag with the black thing that stops the car rolling. I figured that I wasn't going to take the car back just to get a rotation done. So I'd do it myself. Yeah well this morning when I got the chance, I started doing it.

    I had a look at the nut adaptor first and could see a little wear on their inside, the 'leading edge' of the little post things, that caught my eye as I was under the impression that they'd never been used. Trying it on the front left wheel I quickly found that the nut adaptor was lifting and popping off the bolt head despite my pushing hard against the socket head to keep it snugged in. I took a closer look at the bolt head and could see quite a bit of damage.

    To describe the damage I've done the little picture below. SEE ATTACHMENT

    I am really damn sure I never caused that damage cause I only tried turning the bolt three or four times and was never able to put much pressure on it as the adaptor thing was popping off pretty much right away.

    After I'd seen the damage, I stopped right away, I know that I could only do more damage from there on. I guess I'll take it back to the dealer and they might have better tools and know tricks to overcome this.

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    I checked the other wheels, the left rear wheel showed similar damage. But the right sides were fine. I never touched the rear wheel. BUT to add to my uncertainty my father had tried that one a little when we were going through the tools sorting out what to use. He had only tried once or twice and I saw he wasn't using any force, just testing the feel of the socket on the nut adaptor.

    My guess is that the previous service tried to, or took the wheels off and did the damage. But like I've said there is still the question of uncertainty here.

    Is it possible to do this with only a little force? I have had three years experience repairing electronics and ten years or factory work using all manner on miscellaneous tools. So I know very well that all steps should be taken to avoid threading, cross-threading or damaging any kind of nut or bolt.

    I was pressing hard against the socket head always to avoid this sort of thing happening. But I might of done it, maybe I did? But I don't think so!

    If so, If I did this damage so easily, this should act as a warning as most Peugeots use these things now.

    Has anyone else had this happen?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Damage to the anti-theft bolts on GTI-180-nut-pic.jpg  
    Last edited by Mic_Col; 11th February 2006 at 08:06 PM. Reason: title wrong term used
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  2. #2
    Member Mic_Col's Avatar
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    Default Captain's log - additional

    Oh yeah another point, minor but some reading the above might draw a wrong idea. The previous place I took it to for servicing closed. These guys are new.

    Gold Coast dealer closed Oct. last year I think and Zupps took over Peugeot dealership / servicing.
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    Fellow Frogger! Dr_Pug's Avatar
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    Speaking with a head mechanic at one of pug dealership, he did mention that overtightning of the 180 locknut leads to damage as well damage caused when excess force is needed to get it off.

    A torque wrench should be used to ensure that nuts are not over tightened. Although this isnt helpful to you now, all i can suggest is having that locknut reseated if you cant get them off with locknut adpator.
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    Default ...

    Im on my second set of locknuts,wanged 2 of em first time i rotated the tyres.

    They are not designed very well,all the pressure sits on those little grooves and they strip very easily.I shudder to think what a rattle gun could do to them,especially if the tyre place has just gone thru a bucket to find something vaguely similar... :/.

    Be specific whenever you take it to a tyre place.GIVE them that little yellow thing to remove the nut caps when you give them the keys,tell them not to use the rattle gun on the lock nuts,and to be careful with them..The first time i took mine in the guy just pulled out a screwdriver and proceeded to start jimmying the nut covers off .

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_Col
    , the front tires are wearing quite a bit on the outsides, the backs are quite good.
    Not related at all, but if your fronts are wearing only/more on the outside, they could be under-inflated. What pressure are your using?
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    Tadpole Tas 180 gti's Avatar
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    Rotated my wheels a week ago, the yellow thingy to get the fake wheel nuts off is missing found a hook thingy in the garage that got the fake wheel nuts off. Did a little bit of damage to one of those stupid lock nuts when rotating the wheels did not stop me tightening it(maybe the metal is to soft?). Found a crack in one of my tyres sidewalls!!!!!"GREAT".

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    Quote Originally Posted by scatterbrain
    Not related at all, but if your fronts are wearing only/more on the outside, they could be under-inflated. What pressure are your using?
    Nah..... can only assume this is not under inflation causing it - just "outer edge" wear due to 'brisk' cornering . I did exactly the same thing at my 20K kms service. As the P7000's are directional, they have to be taken off the rims and swapped to the opposite side to even up wear for the next 10-20K kms.

    All done now - I just had too much hassle trying to get mine re-balanced properly.....................

  8. #8
    Member Mic_Col's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by scatterbrain
    Not related at all, but if your fronts are wearing only/more on the outside, they could be under-inflated. What pressure are your using?
    34 PSI. I routinely check it monthly, I've never found any big pressure drop in that period.
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    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    I've rotated the wheels on my car maybe 4 or 5 times, and have successfully avoided damaging the security nuts - and this is with a rattle gun. I must confess this is a home rattle gun with an adjustable torque setting that I actually use (max to get them off, a lot less to put them on) - but to be quite specific, I only use the supplied wheel brace on the security nuts. One false move with a rattle gun on those and they would probably be toast.

    If it's damaged, I suspect someone else has damaged them, Mic-Col, as once my adaptor has been fitted to the lock nut, it's quite secure.

    As for taking it to a tyre place, I always remove the caps before I take it there - I wouldn't trust them to a) know how to take them off and b) succeed in doing so without damaging the wheels in the process.
    Regards,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mi16 Man
    Nah..... can only assume this is not under inflation causing it - just "outer edge" wear due to 'brisk' cornering
    Yep this was my assumption too! I have experienced the same thing myself, I ran the pressure on the high side to even out wear in the middle then strip & refit the tyres to get the wear on the other shoulder of the tyres - it also helps hide the more marginal part of the tread when they are nearly worn out.

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! 206 RC's Avatar
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    I damaged a security nut... All I can say is... If you need to use the tool provided with the car you will never get a wheel off. You need a gun like the tyre places.

    Cost $100..
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  12. #12
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    Unless your car is living at the racetrack, the wearing of the outside edge of the tyres is simply caused by too much tow in on the wheel alignment. I usually set my front wheel drives at zero tow.
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  13. #13
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 206 RC
    I damaged a security nut... All I can say is... If you need to use the tool provided with the car you will never get a wheel off. You need a gun like the tyre places.
    I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this

    If you are saying that the security bolt is too tight to remove with the wheel brace that came with the car, then you need to have a serious talk with the rock ape that tightened the bolt.

    Having said that, talking to a rock ape doesn't usually result in the most meaningful of conversations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206
    I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this

    If you are saying that the security bolt is too tight to remove with the wheel brace that came with the car, then you need to have a serious talk with the rock ape that tightened the bolt.

    Having said that, talking to a rock ape doesn't usually result in the most meaningful of conversations.
    Well... I attempted to remove the security bolt with the wheel brace that comes with the car... and all I ended up doing was braking the top of the nut off. This meant that it became absolutely impossible to remove the security nut and I couldnt now fit the plastic covers over the nut.

    Of course it is the persons fault who last rotated the tyres. But prove it. And.. when you are out in the bush and this happens saying "I will have to have a serious talk with the rock ape" is no consolation.

    All I am saying, is if you are going to use the wheel brace... I wouldnt bother. Having broken one and replaced them (100$) it isnt worth it.
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  15. #15
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Clint,

    I'm talking about tightening it up. If you use the supplied wheel brace, it would be very difficult to overtighten it because the lever isn't long enough (but of course, where there is a will, there is a way). Your problem of snapping in when removing it just proves my point - it was overtightened with a rattle gun - using a rattle gun to undo it wouldn't have necessarily stopped it from breaking.

    There is a similar absence of rattle guns when one is "out in the bush" and needs to undo an over-torqued nut.

    I'm even more confused now
    Regards,

    Simon

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  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! 206 RC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206
    Clint,

    I'm talking about tightening it up. If you use the supplied wheel brace, it would be very difficult to overtighten it because the lever isn't long enough (but of course, where there is a will, there is a way). Your problem of snapping in when removing it just proves my point - it was overtightened with a rattle gun - using a rattle gun to undo it wouldn't have necessarily stopped it from breaking.

    There is a similar absence of rattle guns when one is "out in the bush" and needs to undo an over-torqued nut.

    I'm even more confused now
    I can assure you that if you read my posts you will understand. The dealer that I go to informed me that a rattle gun is definitely preferable to a wheel brace. I had the Peugeot "Mechanic, I use this term loosely" try to loosen the nut and he failed... However a rattle gun took it off in seconds.

    My original post stated quite clearly that it is very easy to break these security nuts. I have done it. Well actually not me but I was there. Next I stated that if you need to change a wheel far from home you are stuffed as the wheel brace will not remove the security nuts. I managed to remove every nut except the security one. They are very poorly designed.

    Clint
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    Quote Originally Posted by 206 RC
    I I managed to remove every nut except the security one. They are very poorly designed.

    Clint
    Or very cleverly designed. They are designed to stop the wheels from being removed, are they not?
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  18. #18
    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 206 RC
    The dealer that I go to informed me that a rattle gun is definitely preferable to a wheel brace. I had the Peugeot "Mechanic, I use this term loosely" try to loosen the nut and he failed... However a rattle gun took it off in seconds.
    Guns should only be used in conjunction with torque tubes. This prevents over tightening.
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    Fellow Frogger! 206 RC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scatterbrain
    Or very cleverly designed. They are designed to stop the wheels from being removed, are they not?
    Yes, but not to those with the key surely?
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    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 206 RC
    Next I stated that if you need to change a wheel far from home you are stuffed as the wheel brace will not remove the security nuts.
    This would only be the case if the wheels had been overtightened with a rattle gun.

    Enough from me, other than to say I rotate my wheels every 5k, and use a wheel brace on the security bolts so that I don't over tighten them and therefore leave myself stranded "in the bush." I've done 44k, so that means I've managed to avoid breaking the security bolts 8 times so far (per bolt). I guess I'm way too lucky for my own good.

    Adieu.
    Regards,

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  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! 206 RC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206
    This would only be the case if the wheels had been overtightened with a rattle gun.

    Enough from me, other than to say I rotate my wheels every 5k, and use a wheel brace on the security bolts so that I don't over tighten them and therefore leave myself stranded "in the bush." I've done 44k, so that means I've managed to avoid breaking the security bolts 8 times so far (per bolt). I guess I'm way too lucky for my own good.

    Adieu.
    Ok, lets just say... if like me, you ever get your wheel nuts tightened at service.. Be very careful with the security bolt. However, if you are smart like Simon and do it yourself.. Be careful and you should be fine. Believe me... I don't want Peugeot to even go near my wheels now.. but I guess that is just impossible.

    Clint

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