205 GTi "lighter"
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  1. #1
    Cub
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    Default 205 GTi "lighter"

    Hi Puggers,

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    Just wondering whats the opinion on shedding kilos on a car. In a car like a 205 GTi whats the potential gain? and how far can you go without comprimising too much roadworthiness?
    Say for instance remove:
    - Rear bench
    - Rear speakers
    - Electric windows (replace with winders?)
    - Spare wheel
    - some carpet?
    - lighter bonnet?
    - lighter wheels

    Cheers everyone.
    CUB

  2. #2
    al
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    Start off with the rear seat/parcel shelf/boot lining, (all that crap back there) then rip out the carpet and soundproofing. Mine is all out at present, and i can't believe how much that crap weighs.

    Then dispose of the spare wheel, and fit some lightweight bucket seats.

    Or just read this.
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  3. #3
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    Take out the aircon ?

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    I've never carrried a spare (but have put a plastic box in the same location with the jack, tools, tow rope).

    The front speakers are heavier (and better) than the rears. When my rear ones died I moved the fronts to the rear and bought better - even heavier - ones for the front. Actually, I bought 4 new better ones initially but they didn't fit in the back. I might also be obsessed with weight but it IS a road car.

    One large weight is the rear hatch. I remember a Fiat 127 motorkhana car that had the rear hatch replaced with a sheet of Perspex. Probably save 25kg and would have excellent visibility for reversing in motorkhanas!

    Original wheels (well, the S3 15" ones at least) are rather heavy - maybe not much in terms of the overall car, just unsprung weight.
    For that matter, I think R spec tyres are also lighter than regular tyres. Hoosier R spec tyres definitely are substantially lighter (but are only good for dry weather use, unlike Yoki A032Rs or Toyo RA-1s).

    Those useless low 'driving lights' in the front spoiler don't weigh much but are something. (Proper wiring with relays to the headlights will vastly improve both low and high beam). The air horn is pretty light in spite of how bulky it looks.

    I use a 6 or 6.5kg sealed lead acid battery (mounted flat under the carpet just in front of the passenger seat) instead of the 13 odd kilo battery that was making access such a problem in the engine bay.

    Does anyone do hollow anti-roll bars for the 205?

    Glass can be replaced with Perspex (acrylic) or Polcarbonate (preferably with a hard coating). The least compromise is suffered on the back side windows - could glue a 2mm thick sheet onto the rubbers instead of hinging them.

    I remember the spec sheet for some modern passenger car that showed a weight difference of 30kg whether it had aircon or not. (I'm not prepared to give up air con myself - the 205 seems to be typical of modern cars where the manufacturer gave up on preventing engine heat entering the cabin and used big black dashes because they figured that air con was going to be fitted anyway).

    Rick
    Last edited by Rick; 8th February 2006 at 10:47 AM.

  5. #5
    al
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    Removing the air con saves heaps of weight. The main hose, bit that attaches to the sump, and the other thing in the wing (i have no idea what they all are) weighed over 14kgs when i pulled them out. Then there is the evaporator and condensor, which weigh heaps too.
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  6. #6
    1000+ Posts n b j's Avatar
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    The bonnet is also a large weight, replacing the bonnet with carbon fibre one would reduce a lot of weight. Same goes for all the glass becoming perspex.

    Like has been said, removing aircon, stereo and speakers would reduce a lot of the weight. If you want it just as a track car or motokana, just remove the rear seats...

    If yo wanted to get seriously hardcore, you could replace mechanical parts with lighter weight versions, but that would be some serious $$$

    I know people who have replaced their exhaust system (just cats, muffler, piping) with some crazy new light weight material. The exhaust system is an area where a lot of weight can be reduced.
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    The bonnet of a 205 weighs very little so the expense of going carbon fibre would not be worth it, in the latest Practical Perfromance Magazine there is a detailed article on fitting perpsex windows to a 205. All that trim and carpet add up, sound deading (spelling?) could be scraped out, it really is never ending, work out what are using the car for and find a happy balance.
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  8. #8
    al
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    One large weight is the rear hatch. I remember a Fiat 127 motorkhana car that had the rear hatch replaced with a sheet of Perspex. Probably save 25kg and would have excellent visibility for reversing in motorkhanas!
    I've heard that it is unwise to lighten the rear any more, as there is barely enough weight there to start with...

    And carbon bonnets are nice for show, but there is so much weight that can be removed without any cost at all.

    What about the drivers? Do you decline a second dessert before going out on the track...? Or for everyday driving, could your g/f be traded in for a lighter weight model?
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    Quote Originally Posted by al
    Or for everyday driving, could your g/f be traded in for a lighter weight model?
    So true, i date girls who throw up after they eat, mad weight saving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by purrr-geot
    So true, i date girls who throw up after they eat, mad weight saving.
    Classic!!!!!!

    you know I once had 2 chicks in my old fully hectic Mazda 121 bubble car with sports exhaust. (It was the sickest 121 at my skool)

    I went to perform a little 180 handbrakey manouver (I used to do handbrakeys every day after skool) except this time, I had a hot chick in the front and a big fat biatch in the back, and I couldn't pull off the handbrakey beacuse of all the extra weight the mole was carrying. I nearly rolled the car instead. To make maters worse, I apologised to the hot honey beside me and said the car was heavier then usual. (At 17 yrs old you don't know social graces) the big mole cracked the shits and got out.
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  11. #11
    al
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    They always get aggressive when you say they are too heavy.

    Last week i told someone i couldn't start any kind of relationship as my underpowered french cars couldn't deal with their weight... On the positive side, i found their friend far more suitable...
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    Firts a MUST DO (& then a consideration list) to add to all the things you & others have mentioned.

    - Entire Roof ligning. Heavy & bulky, plus probably past its use by date. Also the less weight up top the better the handling.

    -Side windows. Easy replacement by plexyglass & much lighter.

    -Hatch wiper & mech, you dont need it i reckon & its about 4-5 Kg. Just plug the hole with some silicone.

    -Smaller lighter battery. & install in the middle of the hatch area for better weight distribution.

    -Whole dash board. What its really do apart from crack in the aussie sun. Just keep your instrument cluster in place & the it will be easy to chuck the a/c fan heater core etc..... when rego comes round just stick in a cheap electric air box such as from a holden gemini to demist the window. If your really hard core your never going to use the radio etc anyway!

    -Platic mudguard lining. Remove all the plastic linings inside your wheel arches. Its just there to stop that mud from going too far.. just wash the car regularly.

    -Remove every seat except yours.... including their corresponding seatbelts... girlfriend passengers phffff just get it over & done with at their place & tell em your going out to buy them Krispy Kreams for beign such a fox in bed...

    -Only half fill the coolant resirvour... every bit counts.

    -Remove side mouldings & all extra plastics,.. hell you only legally need x1 side rear vision mirror.

    -Door locks are just one more thing to fall off on a 205. Install a pull wire to the door mech inside & out side of the car, then you can discard the door cards/trim/speakers altogether. Don't bother locking the car as no one's gonna want to steal it & there wont be anything left to steal anyway.

    -IF you have a sunroof!! turf it, they leak & look crap anyway.... Silicone over the hole a nice tinted sheet of thin plexyglass. Ala Citroen Moonroof!

    -IF out goes the spare, then obviously so do the jack & brace..

    -You could also remove water pump, buy an electric water pump ( google davies craig) which releases some load on the engine so more power to your wheels & fit a smaller lighter radiator such as the very efficient ones from a Suzuki Swift Gti.

    -Then start getting serious, such as shaving the top of bolt heads down to remove weight, forged hollow spoke wheels, race rubber/tyres, lightweight exhaust (half length el chepo style), change instrument cluster for a bycyle speedo and a 2" tacho. All other warning lights can go. Fit a go kart race seat-only 2Kg! Cut roof sheeting off, just bolt x2 reforcement round alluminium pipes or RHS diagonally, just don't drive in the rain. Get your brake disks machined down so their lighter.... .... ok enough. - Chris
    Last edited by CHRI'S16; 8th February 2006 at 01:31 PM.
    ... ptui!

  13. #13
    1075.6 SamR's Avatar
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    You could certainly save weight by swapping your seats for a pair of these.
    They were in a Lotus Elise with a supercharged Honda iVTEC motor at the supersprint round at Oran park. It was very, very quick
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 205 GTi "lighter"-p1050811-1-.jpg   205 GTi "lighter"-p1050809-1-.jpg   205 GTi "lighter"-p1060156-1-.jpg  
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamR
    You could certainly save weight by swapping your seats for a pair of these.
    They were in a Lotus Elise with a supercharged Honda iVTEC motor at the supersprint round at Oran park. It was very, very quick
    ...very(and very nice)!
    ive installed an alum. rad. and its about 3-4 kgs lighter than the original. also the heater hoses overall are probably lighter.
    Puggy.

  15. #15
    Cub
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    Hi Puggers,

    Guess most of you missed the part about "comprimising road worthiness!" *joke*...i followed the link given earlier and the forum was talking about acid dipping the car!... ...must have a big bankroll to afford something like that...

    If I dont manage to sell my 205 soon, I feel a brain-snap coming on and will start making it "lighter"...Does anyone have a recent quote for those polycarbon-whatyacallit windows?

    Cheers everyone!

    Stan
    CUB

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHRI'S16
    -Smaller lighter battery. & install in the middle of the hatch area for better weight distribution. - Chris
    Given the battery is on the passenger side, and also given you suggested removing the front passenger seat, wouldn't moving the battery closer to the drivers side upset the weight distribution (left-right of course, fore-aft would be improved) ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by scatterbrain
    Given the battery is on the passenger side, and also given you suggested removing the front passenger seat, wouldn't moving the battery closer to the drivers side upset the weight distribution (left-right of course, fore-aft would be improved) ?
    Not really, when i did this the changes were minimal. A good small battery to do the job will only be about 8-10 Kg... so its marginal considering that there is many factors at hand. The problem with having the battery right next to the driver, it might not pass CAMS inspection, as I do beleive it has to be in sealed of from the driver, but don't take my word for it. - Chris
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHRI'S16
    Not really, when i did this the changes were minimal. A good small battery to do the job will only be about 8-10 Kg... so its marginal considering that there is many factors at hand. The problem with having the battery right next to the driver, it might not pass CAMS inspection, as I do beleive it has to be in sealed of from the driver, but don't take my word for it. - Chris
    Should be in a box, but they weigh next to nothing. If you're keen you should do the corner-weights anyway, makes a big difference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by casnell
    Should be in a box, but they weigh next to nothing. If you're keen you should do the corner-weights anyway, makes a big difference.
    Yup, overall balance & weight distibution by scaling the car certainly does. I do this with my race Kart every few weeks. - Chris
    ... ptui!

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    There was an article in Perforamce GTi mag a few months ago where they stripped out a 205gti and it managed to gain 1 sec in a 0-60mph sprint. Like, they totally stripped it out down to its shell.
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    Don't think I could bring myself to deface my 205 in many of the ways mentioned here.

    I think the best suggestion has been an ultralight exhaust/tubing in a lightweight material. There's a LOT of weight down there. If only titanium were cheaper...

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by al View Post
    I've heard that it is unwise to lighten the rear any more, as there is barely enough weight there to start with...

    And carbon bonnets are nice for show, but there is so much weight that can be removed without any cost at all.

    What about the drivers? Do you decline a second dessert before going out on the track...? Or for everyday driving, could your g/f be traded in for a lighter weight model?


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    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    Realistically removing the rear seats, carpet and soudproofing matting is the cheapest and most effective. The hoodlining mentioned above is only 3 Kg so leave it alone unless looking to never put the car back to "normal". The seats are heavy, I think around 18Kg each, when race seats weigh 6.5Kg.

    My race battery weighs only 5 Kg, but costs $300, a saving of 8-10Kg. The 205 wheels are about 9.5Kg from memory. Lightweight wheels would be around 6.5, and lessen the flywheel effect of accelerating and slowing those 4 "flywheels". A 14" spare weighs 18Kg, a 15" 19Kg.

    If serious, yes the air con can go, but will take a fair effort to put back.

    After that it becomes more costly and often less roadwothy. A friend replaced his bonnet and bootlid on his BMW 2002 with a carbon fibre set, about $2000 including paint, for a 40Kg weight saving but this would not be the case in a 205.
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  24. #24
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    battery - http://www.batterydirect.co.nz/verte...ll_battery.htm

    Wheels are also damm heavy - if i remember they are about 10kg or so each... I know the mi16 wheels with road rubber was 16kg each.

    2 piece disc can save a couple kg also.

    You can buy the poly-glass kits from oversea's but at that point shipping becomes more expensive than locally made.
    Last edited by DRTDVL; 17th February 2011 at 12:16 PM.

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    I recently got a space saver wheel from a 206. Plenty of people hate these things but it will do me and there is a fair weight saving to be had over the usual spare.

    I reckon that if you end up shaving bolts and buying carbon bonnets etc, you should forget about having it as a road car. Perhaps a series 1 Lotus elise is a better $$ option at that point!
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