New S16 - breathless!!
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  1. #1
    Tadpole C_Balls's Avatar
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    Default New S16 - breathless!!

    Having purchased my new baby (1994 306 S16) a few weeks ago I have finally got it serviced and all checked over. Allowing me to appreciate the full potential of these amazing little cars.

    Firstly i must say i am breathless with the way this car handles, even on average tyres (Michelin Pilot HX - anyone now these?). I drove what I thought was pretty quick thru some twisties up Kurrajong way (2nd and 3rd gear corners) and was shocked. Then a mate with a 205gti S111 took me for a drive in it up upped the pace a knotch or two - I am breathless, the car can go quicker around corners than my nerve allows me (Thanks Scott). As a passenger or driver the ability of this car to go around corners at ridiculous speed defies normal thought process.

    Just a few questions for other S16 owners out there. Both diaphragms are seeming to be working properly, got one changed with the major service (timing belt, tensioners, water pump, serpentine belt and service). Seems strong up to about 5700-6000rpm but after that it really seems no point and a bit breathless and quite coarse. My understanding is that peak power is at 6500rpm. Any ideas?
    "
    Also when pushing hard in the 5000-5700rpm range in 2nd or 3rd there seems to be a 'beating' or 'surging' in the exhaust noise, is this normal?
    Is there generally a bit of a 'fluffy' exhaust note at lower revs? (sorry for poor explanation, noises/sounds a little bit difficult to explain).

    Other than that, the car is sensational. Great on the highway and just cruising around town, but on ANY twisting piece of road, look out.

    Any input would be greatly appreciated.

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
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    Congrats on the purchase. Good fun eh? Brought a smile to my face reading your post as I remembered my thoughts after taking one through a winding road a few weeks after purchase.

    As far as I know, the suspension setup of a S16 and gti6 are very similar (or same?) and as such, the only tip I can give is when you get the wheels aligned, get them to set the front wheels to toe out 2mm total (or 1mm per wheel). The car responds really well to this, turn in becomes very keen with no increase in tyre wear.

    With your exhaust sounds, it could be that the rear muffler is wearing out? I had mine replaced a little while ago. It wasn't cheap, but was worth it. A reputable exhaust shop can advise you whether this needs to be done.
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! slick's Avatar
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    nice one... looks like you got a white one.

    head over to the members gallery section and upload some pics of your car

    here's my gallery
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/vbp...p?do=view&g=23
    1994 306 S16 sold but not forgotten
    2004 Clio 182 current

  4. #4
    Tadpole C_Balls's Avatar
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    Thanks for the advice on the alignment settings, although turn-in does seem pretty sharp as is (all compared to a standard family car of course). As i say they seem to go faster around corners than my normal understanding of physics.

    Yeh its a white one, these cars are pretty stealthy in any colour, but even more so in white. It is totally stock, right down to the Eurovox cassette (though that will have to change along with front speakers very shortly). Chasing an BA XR6 Turbo down thru the Old Pacific Highway to Hawkesbury River, didnt no what was happening to him. Put some pics up in the gallery a few weeks back before car was serviced and before i detailed it (look under user name or 1994 306 S16)

    Not sure if it can be the back section of the exhaust, inspection show it has been replaced not that long ago and a look at my service records says front and rear muffler were replaced approximately 10,000km (but 18months) ago. Surely they should still be ok. I have heard things about the flex pipe, could it be that 'fluffing' when the throttle is flat in the 5000-5500 range?

    So do everyone elses S16 rev hard and smooth all the way out to 6500-7000? Is there a bit of an extra kick in the 6000-6500 range?

    It seems after service a have a slight 'hunt' in the idle too, barely noticable and not showing on tacho but you can feel it thru the car. Not too worried about it, just was not doing it previously.

    What tyres you guys running on your S16? Any feedback on them in terms of feel, handling and km out of them?

  5. #5
    Member semerton's Avatar
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    Yeah I'll have to add that the S16 is a very comfortable car to drive - sharp and direct through the corners, but very settled and controllable as well.

    The 306 is definitely a well sorted chassis.

    Thanks C_Balls for the drive Will repay the favour soon!

    Regarding his concerns, I would describe the sound as a 'swishing' under acceleration (sounded similar to driving past other cars at speed but it was definitely coming from the car), probably from the 3000 mark onwards... It didn't seem to have any noticeable affect though, as the car seemed to run perfectly (other than the flat power from 5000 up)...

    Any ideas on the swishing noise, or comments on the top end power of an S16 guys?
    Last edited by semerton; 30th January 2006 at 03:25 PM.

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! buzzlite's Avatar
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    That swishing sound on mine is more like a sucking sound ........could explain the need to keep putting more juice in it (note : must keeps revs down to save on petrol......nah)
    Quick, to the Poojet

  7. #7
    I might be slow... DRTDVL's Avatar
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    I've got a S16 also... and ya there is a second surge a round the 6200 -6500 mark in mine also...

    I also get that flully sound although normally under heavy load.... I think that i need to change the center (it's dented) and rear muffler (it's a bit resrictive)...

    I'd recommend the yoko c-drives if you going to get new tyres, they are a good price here and have been wearing very well on some of my friends cars... the dunlop direzza's arn't bad but i have found them to be a but understeary when pushed very hard... they do handle well on gravel tho...

    i'd check the air filter, if it's seaming a bit breathless and hessitant to rev past 6... you can stick a pod in the factory air box with a little work... i've can explain what you need to do if you want to do it... it will make a nice differance. Also i would recommend removing the factory intake resonator (a muffler) you will get a much nicer induction sound (15 min job).

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRTDVL
    I also get that flully sound although normally under heavy load.... I think that i need to change the center (it's dented) and rear muffler (it's a bit resrictive)...
    I'm not sure how much (if at all) the s16 muffler is different from the gti6 muffler, but a few months back when it came time to replace my rear muffler, I did a bit of an experiment with different sets of mufflers. On a dyno the stock muffler had virtually the same output as a high quality straight through muffler. 306 gti6 Dyno charts vs different mufflers
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! slick's Avatar
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    The 195/55R15 Tyre Thread

    this link will answer a lot of tyre related questions because it's specifically for our size tyres. I'm looking at GoodYear Revspecs, Yokohama C-Drives or Fulda Attiro for my next tyres. They're not really that close in terms of performance but I'm still unsure how much $ I'm prepared to pay and how much I need them to last...

    When I've bought my car it came with 2x Michelin Pilot HX and although they seem to last for ages they had similar grip with my current Kumho Ecsta 711 in the dry. In the wet the Kumho's outperform the Michelins and they were dirt cheap in comparison. Anyway Michelin's new tyres are up there in terms of performance but they're nowhere near the competition in terms of price. The michelin's already had 10000km on them when I got the car and it is compare when the other 2 tyres were Dunlop FM901 (one of the best tyres you could buy at the time). My opions are based on having the michelins on the front because the fronts do most of the work...
    1994 306 S16 sold but not forgotten
    2004 Clio 182 current

  10. #10
    I might be slow... DRTDVL's Avatar
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    1.2kw at the wheels isnt something to be injored tho... espically on a na car.

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! buzzlite's Avatar
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    DRTDVL - I've been quoted $185 for Yoko C-Drives - is that a good price our do I need to shop around ?
    Quick, to the Poojet

  12. #12
    I might be slow... DRTDVL's Avatar
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    the best i've got quoted from up here was $175...

  13. #13
    Tadpole C_Balls's Avatar
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    Nice to hear someone is driving C-Drives on an S16, wasnt sure if they would be suitable. Have them on a 97 V6 Magna and they have been very good so far. In terms of your price, if in Syndey perhaps give Tyre and Wheel in West Ryde a call, from memory i got 215/60 16 for $145-150 each and they will match or better any other price. Maybe 195/55 15 are more pricy but i should not have thought so.

    DRTDVL I was implying that i dont seem to have any additional kick above 6000rpm, which to me seems strange. Is there a possibility that it has been driven largely below 5000-5500 most of its life and the engine become 'lazy'? It sound stupid but i had two Toyota TwimCams 1986-88(4AGE) and one had been thrashed, not real torquey but would rev so hard and quick you would hit the rev limiter all the time (7000+), the other was very torquey down low but didnt like or do much above 6000.
    When you say you get the fluffing under heavy load, what are we talking 4500-5000 at full throttle? like ive said majority of exhaust system in near new

    To be honest not super keen on modifying the S16 just yet (besides some tunes), shall check air filter. Just think it should rev cleanly at least to 6500 and acutally give some benefit in taking it that far. As it is, quicker and more pleaasant to change at 5700-5900 when going quick (4000-4500 or even less when cruising, suprised how torquey these engines are).

  14. #14
    I might be slow... DRTDVL's Avatar
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    nah it has kinda a leaking sound under load... the exhaust isn't cracked and it's not leaking just a phluffffffff sound to it on top of the exhaust note...

    my car seams to have a little kick at 6200 - 7200... so i'm not sure if thats common or my car is just weird.

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! buzzlite's Avatar
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    what sort of speed to rev range are you getting ?
    Quick, to the Poojet

  16. #16
    I might be slow... DRTDVL's Avatar
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    i'm not to sure... 1st is about 55 - 60 for first, 2nd about 95ish, 3rd about 135ish... haven't redlined 4th yet...

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! buzzlite's Avatar
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    I've seen mine hit 90 in 2nd @ 6.5 , had 125 in 3rd last night but didn't get to look @ the revs (got to love motorway onramps at night with no traffic).
    Quick, to the Poojet

  18. #18
    I might be slow... DRTDVL's Avatar
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    hehe i don't really look at the speedo that much... just guess at speed by engine noise... in saying that i'm stuck in traffic most of time and it's mainly when i head up north do i really get to have some fun

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! buzzlite's Avatar
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    took a Jap import 206 - 138 out for a test drive , it had a Big bore - makes it bloody hard to hear the engine (found the 2nd gear cutoff). Quick car, fast off the line but I think the old S16 handles far better and has it in the top range (but then I have a S16 and not a 206 GT).

    The lines on the 206 and 306 are just great - makes them stand out !!!!!
    Quick, to the Poojet

  20. #20
    Tadpole C_Balls's Avatar
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    My bad on the tyre front. Spoke to Guy at T&W and apparently Yoko C-Drives $175-185 in our size and Goodyear GS-D3 about $205. Seems i got my old tyres for the Magna at a steal.

    Is the GS-D3 a lot better? He suggested it is and that you would get more kms out of them and are a better tyre.

    Damn i want an extra kickin mine above 6000 rpm. Shall have to hopefully catch up with another S16 in Sydney and compares notes on performance and general running to give me some yardstick to work to.

  21. #21
    I might be slow... DRTDVL's Avatar
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    i had the g3's on the car when i got it... they where very good but didn't wear very well and where noisy... but that just me

  22. #22
    Member semerton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buzzlite
    took a Jap import 206 - 138 out for a test drive , it had a Big bore - makes it bloody hard to hear the engine (found the 2nd gear cutoff). Quick car, fast off the line but I think the old S16 handles far better and has it in the top range (but then I have a S16 and not a 206 GT).
    I used to have a local 206 GTi (old school 138) - can confirm that S16 handles much nicer. Less body roll, more settled in corners and reasonably higher corner speeds.

    I'm pretty sure my 96 306 XR actually felt alot better than the 206 as well...

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! buzzlite's Avatar
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    I think the only step up from the S16 would be to get a GTI6 - shame as I really like the seats (in the 180) and the shape of 206 (i.e. looks fast sitting still). The 306 has some great lines but I have to say it - the 306 is a wolf in sheeps clothing - doesn't look like it's going to kick your arse, but it will.
    Quick, to the Poojet

  24. #24
    I might be slow... DRTDVL's Avatar
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    you could also put the 180 seats into the gti-6 or s16... the holden r8 seats are also very nice... i was looking at trying to find a set for my gf's car...

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! buzzlite's Avatar
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    S16 seats are floor mounted and I think the GTI6's are floor and side i.e. that would be the runners. So it would be a bit of work to get them in (unless the seats could go on the old runners).
    Quick, to the Poojet

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