Wheels reviews facelifted 307
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  1. #1
    Tadpole oingoboingo's Avatar
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    Default Wheels reviews facelifted 307

    Just noticed this short review of the facelifted Peugeot 307 (an XSE petrol auto in this case) in the latest Wheels magazine. Not terribly flattering, and some of the comments about the ride over harsh surfaces are reminiscent of 407owner's comments in the '407 road manners' thread. What do owners of the new facelifted 307 think of Wheel's comments? Reason I'm asking is at the moment the new 2.0L 307 HDi and the 2.0L VW Golf TDI are frontrunners to (eventually) replace my 206 XT.

    (Apologies if the scanned article is a little on the small size, I had to crop it right down to get it under 100KB to upload).

    EDIT: Added a link to a full-size scan of the article which is much easier to read! Here it is:

    http://www.photodump.com/viewer/oing...iew_large.html

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    Last edited by oingoboingo; 29th January 2006 at 01:18 PM.

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! 307FELINE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oingoboingo
    Just noticed this short review of the facelifted Peugeot 307 (an XSE petrol auto in this case) in the latest Wheels magazine. Not terribly flattering, and some of the comments about the ride over harsh surfaces are reminiscent of 407owner's comments in the '407 road manners' thread. What do owners of the new facelifted 307 think of Wheel's comments? Reason I'm asking is at the moment the new 2.0L 307 HDi and the 2.0L VW Golf TDI are frontrunners to (eventually) replace my 206 XT.

    (Apologies if the scanned article is a little on the small size, I had to crop it right down to get it under 100KB to upload).
    very hard to read. My 307 is a bit on the harsh side of things when going over crap roads but its not as bad as some might make it out to be.
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  3. #3
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    I'm not going to read anything coming out of Wheels Magazine.

    Sorry.

    Patrick
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ810
    I'm not going to read anything coming out of Wheels Magazine.

    Sorry.

    Patrick
    605SVE
    That's it for Wheels as far as I'm concerned. I drove a 1.6 HDi around Southern Queensland a year ago over a wide variety of roads and there was no ride problem. The only problem was the placement of the clutch pedal (strangely not mentioned by Wheels) and a slightly rough feeling to the cable? gearchange.
    The harshness of the early model was gone in this car and I have been told the latest model is better again. I wonder just how much time Wheels spent with the car?
    Graham

  5. #5
    Veni Vidi Posti 68 404's Avatar
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    I just think Wheels is preoccupied with the petrol head reader who demand a V8 Commodore/Falcon comparison every month.

    Holden and Ford must gleefully furnish vehicles on them weekly and pay for all disposables for such wonderful coverage.

    Obviously Peugeot doesn't pander to them...

    It pisses me off when at first blush it appears that any Pug seems to be written off before the ignition key is turned

    Dave
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    As 307 Feline and Graham Wallis have pointed out, that magazine seems to be happy to amplify the PSA cars' faults and minimise the issues with others. Note also that they are running a Golf GTi as a long term test car and just finished a term with a 2.0 TDi.

    To me the ride of the 307/C4 is firm, well-controlled, but nicely absorbent of big bumps and it handles sharply as a result.

    Interestingly, Drive in the Sydney Morning Herald also had a short report on the new 307 and stated that its pluses included 'good ride and handling'...

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie
    As 307 Feline and Graham Wallis have pointed out, that magazine seems to be happy to amplify the PSA cars' faults and minimise the issues with others. Note also that they are running a Golf GTi as a long term test car and just finished a term with a 2.0 TDi.

    To me the ride of the 307/C4 is firm, well-controlled, but nicely absorbent of big bumps and it handles sharply as a result.

    Interestingly, Drive in the Sydney Morning Herald also had a short report on the new 307 and stated that its pluses included 'good ride and handling'...

    On the subject of Wheels can someone tell me why the 504 wasn't even considered for the Car of The Year in 1970?
    This was won by the Renault 12 against such opposition as VW Series 3 Fastback.
    Graham

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    To be honest, I can't see anything hugely wrong with the review - I've probably driven more 307s in a greater variety of conditions here than anyone bar salespeople here.

    The new 2.0 16V is punchy, especially above 3500rpm, but it's noisy. Probably more noisy high in the rev range than its predecessor. PSA could've improved the car had they not removed the underbonnet sound insulation back in 2003.

    The ride in the 307 is fine at high speed, but a little unsettled at lower speeds. Handling is reasonable (few who have driven with me have ever had cause for concern with the 307's ability to keep up on a twisty road, let alone lead), but the car is somewhat more understeer prone than the 306 for example.

    It's an old design now compared to most in the class, that's a fact of life. The T6 update hasn't added much in terms of substance in the car, aside from the updated 2.0 petrol engine, what meaningful mechanical improvements have been made?

    To those who want to rant on about some anti French conspiracy here - have a look at what other English speaking press have said about the 307. The criticism of its ride is hardly unique to Wheels. If you think the new 2.0 is refined at high revs, you need your ears syringed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    Handling is reasonable (few who have driven with me have ever had cause for concern with the 307's ability to keep up on a twisty road, let alone lead), but the car is somewhat more understeer prone than the 306 for example.
    I agree with you there Justin A lot of it is to do with tyres. I drove a 307 2L manual a while ago with cheapie Chinese tyres on the front. 60km/hr on a windy road, plant your foot in second and straight ahead she goes!!! I know your car is not like that with good quality tyres.

    I agree they should have updated the auto to 5 or 6 speed in the T6 model, and perhaps dropped a 6 speed manual in (they have one in the parts bin after all don't they?)

    Derek.

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    Veni Vidi Posti 68 404's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    To be honest, I can't see anything hugely wrong with the review - I've probably driven more 307s in a greater variety of conditions here than anyone bar salespeople here.
    Salespeople know something about the car they're selling?????

    Now that's a good one
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeKa
    I agree with you there Justin A lot of it is to do with tyres. I drove a 307 2L manual a while ago with cheapie Chinese tyres on the front. 60km/hr on a windy road, plant your foot in second and straight ahead she goes!!! I know your car is not like that with good quality tyres.
    The added understeer is a function of the car's height, necessary to stop it from flipping over in an elk test type manoeuvre.

    Instant understeer is the mechanism by which anti roll systems function in SUVs.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeKa
    I agree they should have updated the auto to 5 or 6 speed in the T6 model, and perhaps dropped a 6 speed manual in (they have one in the parts bin after all don't they?)
    The 2.0 HDi has the 6sp manual.

    I'm curious to see if PSA goes a little more high tech in the 308 and dumps the torsion beam rear end in favour of a multi link axle. VW's Golf went from the dunce in the class to one of the best as a result of that move.

    Having said that, the Astra arguably has one of the best tuned torsion beams in the business - VW reportedly were unhappy at how good a job Opel did with the plain old torsion beam. Having said that, it's technically impossible to achieve the same levels of wheel control of a multi link setup, with a torsion beam (a torsion beam is only semi independent).

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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    That's it for Wheels as far as I'm concerned. I drove a 1.6 HDi around Southern Queensland a year ago over a wide variety of roads and there was no ride problem. The only problem was the placement of the clutch pedal (strangely not mentioned by Wheels) and a slightly rough feeling to the cable? gearchange.
    The harshness of the early model was gone in this car and I have been told the latest model is better again. I wonder just how much time Wheels spent with the car?
    Graham
    Wheels have tested the 307 many, many times. Nathan Ponchard has run comparisons with the pre-update 307. He is well qualified to compare the pre update with the new 307.

    How much of the 307's competition have you driven Graham? Have a drive of a Mazda 3 or Holden Astra, and put the 307 in some perspective. I actually really like the 307, thanks to my extensive experience with Justins. But if I were buying now I'd find it difficult to argue with Ponchards conclusions "too little, WAY too late". The 307 is a great car in a class with truly brilliant competition. The bar is high.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 68 404
    Salespeople know something about the car they're selling?????

    Now that's a good one
    Well, I only said they probably have driven more 307s than me

    I might've driven more of the competition than them though

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    The added understeer is a function of the car's height, necessary to stop it from flipping over in an elk test type manoeuvre.

    Instant understeer is the mechanism by which anti roll systems function in SUVs.



    The 2.0 HDi has the 6sp manual.

    I'm curious to see if PSA goes a little more high tech in the 308 and dumps the torsion beam rear end in favour of a multi link axle. VW's Golf went from the dunce in the class to one of the best as a result of that move.

    Having said that, the Astra arguably has one of the best tuned torsion beams in the business - VW reportedly were unhappy at how good a job Opel did with the plain old torsion beam. Having said that, it's technically impossible to achieve the same levels of wheel control of a multi link setup, with a torsion beam (a torsion beam is only semi independent).

    As is any suspension with an antiroll bar.
    If there has been no change to 307 suspension then the improved performance of the 1.6 HDi with respect to rear suspension noise must have been down to the tyres. These were 16 inch, sorry can't remember the brand, as compared to the Dunlop 15 inch on the first 307 I drove.
    Graham

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    I'm curious to see if PSA goes a little more high tech in the 308 and dumps the torsion beam rear end in favour of a multi link axle. VW's Golf went from the dunce in the class to one of the best as a result of that move.

    Having said that, the Astra arguably has one of the best tuned torsion beams in the business - VW reportedly were unhappy at how good a job Opel did with the plain old torsion beam. Having said that, it's technically impossible to achieve the same levels of wheel control of a multi link setup, with a torsion beam (a torsion beam is only semi independent).
    It will be interesting to see what they do.

    I'm not entirely convinced of the Astras set-up though. I think its a bit dangerous. I found it very fun and playful, but worry about in the hands of some. Under load and braking, the rear steps out quite dramatically with the slightest steering movement. And life-off oversteer is unlike anything I've ever experienced in any car other than a RWD in the wet. Its sensational fun, and almost makes up for its weedy engines, but has me wondering...

    I look forward to trying a Focus sometime but so far the Mazda 3 is my personal favourite in the class (have'nt had enough wheel-time in the Golf, but the interior is not condusive to sporting pretensions IMHO). I still love thrashing the 307 on a nice road though, modern hatches are so easy to drive quickley, its crazy!

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    I think the point here is that Peugeot was once renowned for the way it could get cars to ride and handle exceptionally well - at the same time: 403, 404, 504 604, 505 and so on; it seems these days that the market demands a good handling car which now seems to come at the expense of ride; while a standard 504 leans like billy-oh through corners (but still hangs on with minimal understeer) its ride is an absolute pleasure on poor surfaces, railway crossings, dirt, and so on...
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    That still doesn't make sense though. Why compare to a 504 when we can compare 307 to 306, and 407 to 406?

    A 306 or 406 rides AND handles exceptionally. And despite being a decade old, will out-handle and "out-ride" pretty much anything that's brand new. Why all of a sudden take a step backwards?

    I've even heard various criticisms of the 607 compared to the 605, one from someone who actually owns both. So it must be an '07 thing that's going to pass. Apparantly the 404 handled worse than the 403, and the 504 was back to 'normal'.

    I'm looking forward to my '08.

    Patrick
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ810
    That still doesn't make sense though. Why compare to a 504 when we can compare 307 to 306, and 407 to 406?
    Experience...I haven't driven a 306 or a 406, or a 307 or a 407! If I had, I daresay I would be using them as a comparison.
    Last edited by boodek; 29th January 2006 at 10:01 PM.
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    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergetov
    I'm not entirely convinced of the Astras set-up though. I think its a bit dangerous. I found it very fun and playful, but worry about in the hands of some. Under load and braking, the rear steps out quite dramatically with the slightest steering movement. And life-off oversteer is unlike anything I've ever experienced in any car other than a RWD in the wet. Its sensational fun, and almost makes up for its weedy engines, but has me wondering...
    That sounds like great fun! Is the latest model Astra's that exhibited this trait? Even the non-sporty models? Might have to take an astra for a test drive soon.
    Take the long way home....

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    One criticism I have heard about the early 307 HDi (not sure if it carries through to the later 307s HDI's) is that rear tires chewed out much earlier than they should. I have a relative that has now done close to 240,000 kms in his 3.7 HDI, and has experienced this on each set of rear tires. He knows of at least two other owners with HDi's that have experienced the exact same problem. Seems to affect only the diesel models. Pug Aust. were not remotely interested in resolving at any stage; hence this is his last pug.

    Regards,

    Scott

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    Quote Originally Posted by oingoboingo
    Just noticed this short review of the facelifted Peugeot 307 (an XSE petrol auto in this case) in the latest Wheels magazine. Not terribly flattering, and some of the comments about the ride over harsh surfaces are reminiscent of 407owner's comments in the '407 road manners' thread.
    Yes, the review does find similar handling shortcoming in the 307 as I found in the 407. Does anyone know if they share the same suspension architecture? The 407 has double wishbones up front and multilink in the rear. How heavy is the 307? It sure looks more solid than the 306.

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    1000+ Posts TroyO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 407owner
    Yes, the review does find similar handling shortcoming in the 307 as I found in the 407. Does anyone know if they share the same suspension architecture? The 407 has double wishbones up front and multilink in the rear. How heavy is the 307? It sure looks more solid than the 306.
    The 307 and 407 suspension is different. The 307 has mcpherson struts at the front and a deformable u-beam at the rear with coil springs.

    I don't know about the 307 being more solid than the 306, I have only ever driven one 306. I did notice a tendancy for a fair amount of suspension noise on the 307's I have driven, especially in the rear suspension.

    Troy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by U Turn
    That sounds like great fun! Is the latest model Astra's that exhibited this trait? Even the non-sporty models? Might have to take an astra for a test drive soon.
    Yeah the latest Astra (the cool looking one, well I like its looks anyway).

    I drove both the base CD and top-range CDX-i. Both were Auto's. I can't remember which one we took up the hills, but I think it was the basemodel CD. I strongly recommend taking one for a drive, they are a fantastic car. And the interior is quite modern and well made too. The Astra can be driven really quickley, but one must be careful. Its a really entertaining car, but the engine is utter rubbish, its got very little to give. The new AC astra has the same engine as the old, but has porked up a bit.

    We were going down hill quite quickley, and my friend just lightly taped the breaks, going straight but there was a bit of road camber. And the tail just got moved a little, he caught it straight away, but it was enough. After that we had a lot of fun provoking it, which it seems to encourage you to do.

    Its a very different drive to the Golf. The Golf has huge grip and is techincally brilliant. But its attitude is totally uninspiring compared to the Astra IMHO, although I have not spent massive amounts of time in a Golf (behind the wheel anyway).

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    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    Wheels....has lost its credibility ......completely....

    Just look at their SHOWROOM section that is supposed to demonstrate the various specs of the many vehicles in the market.........
    How is this.....(check commonbore v8 fuel consumption figs).....

    Why is it SO hard to supply its readers the holden v8 (5.7) fuel consumption figures.....An Aussie mag can not manage to obtain and publish these figures on an aussie built car???.....You have to be kidding me......All one sees are NA NA NA NA....blah blah blah..........
    I d say, its absolutely scandalous....definitely not proffesional and obviously biased....
    The other problem is their "adverts" that are presented as stories....there is at least one thats blatantly "all" by FORD..... Media watch would have a ball with this mag if they bothered to give it a once over....



    cheers


    dino

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    Quote Originally Posted by dino
    The other problem is their "adverts" that are presented as stories....there is at least one thats blatantly "all" by FORD..... Media watch would have a ball with this mag if they bothered to give it a once over....
    Yeah, pretty nice coverage for Ford on the BF/SY. Elements of the story were a bit 'press releaseish', but when you're talking about changes made to the car (as opposed to the actual drive), that's somewhat inevitable.

    But, can you pick something particularly wrong with the comments they've made on those cars?

    In regards to the 5.7l V8 figures, not sure why it's not quoted for the Commodores, but it's quoted for the Adventra & Crewman, etc.

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