MI16 running hot, any clues for a newbie?
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  1. #1
    Tadpole Naything's Avatar
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    Icon8 MI16 running hot, any clues for a newbie?

    Hi everyone, my series 1.5 Mi16 is running quite warm, The first time i only noticed because i was pulled over and left the engine running to keep the air- con on ( it was a high 30's day) when i returned to the car i found it was overflowing coolant every where, I was about 500m from a servo so i pulled in, topped it up with coolant only to have it spit it all out again. I discovered the radiator cap wasn't on properly so i let it cool down, refilled the coolant and drove off, seemed to go ok. No more loss of coolant. Then after a bit of shopping and the car having a chance to cool down i attempted to drive home, after a while the temp gauge was on 100, not having had the car that long i wasn't sure if that was unusual or not, then it gradually went up to 110 which didn't seem right at all but still no warning lights came on (they all work during the test during ignition, at least i hope that is a test!). When the oil temp gage started to rise i got worried and pulled over , i let it cool down and replaced the coolant that spat out when i took off the radiator cap. After about an hour i drove home, by now the sun had gone down and i had the heater on full and gauge stayed at 90 for the rest of the trip.

    I live in Gympie and am a little wary about having it looked at by a non pug mechanic, with the closest that i know of bein Cullens in Nambour 70k's away. So I'm not sure what my options are, If you let it idle with the radiator cap of it does seem to blow bubbles in the coolant eventually overflowing the reservoir. Does that mean a bad head? Very bad? The oil still looks like new after having had the car for over 2000kms (my saab 900i dirtys the oil after a few hundred k's but it's done 50 000k's in 3 years without a break down and it only cost me $1500 so i don't mind a few extra oil changes).

    I've taken it for a few short drives lately at night and the temp usually stays at 90 even without the heater turned on, though it did start to head towards 100 when left to idle after after a drive. The fans seem to operate differently to those described in other posts, with one being constantly on and i've never heard or felt the 2nd one come on at all! Though at 100km/h would that even make a difference to the heat of the engine?

    The Temp warning light or the stop light have never come on during all this time, though the engine / k-light may come on for a second or 2 during ignition, only once has it stayed on and turning the car off than on again got rid of that.

    Sorry to have so many questions for my first thread but i have been trawling all the past posts for about a month now and can't find anything of a similar nature to my problem, Cullens have said if it is the gasket, repairs would start at $750 with an upper limit in the thousands. For an engine with 220k on it would i be better served looking for a 2nd hand engine, or a contemplating complete rebuild?

    ANY advice would be greatley appreciatted.

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! James504's Avatar
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    Are you talking about the water temp going upto 110 or the oil? My Mi16 seems to be different from other's as well. It stays at 84-85 degree's but only with the a/c on. Off, it seems to sit at 90 degree's (water temp). I have never had a warning light come on, except the coolant level low light. Being new to Mi16's myself I am still learning a great deal, however I doubt the head gasket is causeing this problem. Maybe there is an airlock in your system? water pump gone or thermostat. There is one thing I know for sure Mi16's= time+money. Hopefully others on this board can help you more.
    2006 Peugeot 206 Xt
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  3. #3
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    It sounds to me as though the fans aren't operating as they should and that by now you may have air in the system.
    Unfortunately, I'm more Citroen orientated and they have a different system to operating the fans as the temp rises but my initial suspicion would be to check the Bitron relay that controls fan speeds. If you find it, try disconnecting it and see if it causes the fans to blow at full blast (look in your service manual for location) and if it does, then that could be your problem. If however say only one fan goes hard (or at all) then go looking at fan relays and fan motors.
    The systems need to be bled of air or they will show some weird symptoms; if you don't know the procedure, I'd suggest you either check it in the service manual or ask someone to run you through it.
    Cullens are a good option for service; have a good reputation etc, but if it's any help, try this guy via a PM through this board:

    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/members/chevroen.html

    Ned lives in Gympie and knows his way around the BX16V which is 95% the same as your Mi16. I live 1 1/2 hours north of you so there's a few Froggies up this way. Next service place north of you would be at West Car Sales in Bundaberg if that's any future help for you.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  4. #4
    Tadpole Naything's Avatar
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    Thanks Guys, that is encouraging. I did try bleeding air out of the system but the valve in the thermostat was siezed so i just loosened the temp probe next to it. I will endevour to do it properly. I'll also try and track down the bitron relay, i am at least semi comfortable with the electrical side of cars, i must admit mechanicaly i don't know much more than changing fluids and plugs. Maybe this car will teach me!

  5. #5
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    You'll possibly find a large screw head on the right hand side (as you stand at the front of the car) of the header tank on the radiator. I think it's common to BXs and Pugs and I have an Mi16 here at present and it has one, be sure to slacken and bleed via that one. Fill radiator to the top and release that screw and you'll possibly find a big pile of air will come out of it. Let it run out of there until the air bubbles stop coming out.
    I'll be passing through Gympie next Friday but as it will possibly be about 3am, little chance we'll catch up.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    My Mi16 which I am selling runs around 90 all the time, when sitting in traffic it creaps up to 100 and then the fans cool it back to 90 again, regular as clockwork.

    The thermostat in an Mi16 is designed to start opening at 88 degrees and be fully open at 98 degrees.

    They are a fairly warm running car, but if the cooling system is in good shape then you wont have a problem.

    Cheers

    Ben
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  7. #7
    Member franco's Avatar
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    Average driving through the city in traffic, mine sits on about 90 degrees. No cooling problems whatsoever.
    1991 Peugeot 405 Mi16 sports saloon
    Boge shock absorbers all round
    K&N panel
    FOR SALE: $4800 NEGOTIABLE
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/cars-sale-wanted/32141-sale-1991-405-mi16-s1-5-adelaide.html

  8. #8
    Tadpole Naything's Avatar
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    The Bitron box wasn't even plugged in! I'm not sure why someone would have unplugged it, any theories? Not that it really matters i guess. I've plugged it back in the 2nd fan came on straigt away, it had been idling at about 105, which brought it back down to 90. Drained the coolant, replaced and bled the air from the system . And the whole time i was running the coolant through the system (about 20 minutes at 2000 rpm) it never once went over 90! Thanks heaps guys! Is there a forum equivalent of buying everyone a drink?

    I must admit when i was told it was most likely the head, i had considered selling it of to try and cut my losses, but then i'd take it for a drive.....

    You have all taken a huge load off my wallet, thanks again

    Now i just have to figure out why it surges whe reversing and where all the powersterring fluid keeps going! Oh well a man needs a hobby!

  9. #9
    Member 405STi's Avatar
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    what about the oil temp, what is normal
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  10. #10
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naything
    The Bitron box wasn't even plugged in! I'm not sure why someone would have unplugged it, any theories? Not that it really matters i guess. I've plugged it back in the 2nd fan came on straigt away, it had been idling at about 105, which brought it back down to 90. Drained the coolant, replaced and bled the air from the system . And the whole time i was running the coolant through the system (about 20 minutes at 2000 rpm) it never once went over 90! Thanks heaps guys! Is there a forum equivalent of buying everyone a drink?

    I must admit when i was told it was most likely the head, i had considered selling it of to try and cut my losses, but then i'd take it for a drive.....

    You have all taken a huge load off my wallet, thanks again

    Now i just have to figure out why it surges whe reversing and where all the powersterring fluid keeps going! Oh well a man needs a hobby!

    Are you certain it was the bitron that wasn't plugged in?

    If it's not connected, then both fans should be going full bat all the time.

    In the process of doing a top end rebuild on an Mi16, yours truly forgot to connect it and had problems starting the engine mainly due to the battery drain from 2 fans blasting at full chat from the moment the ignition was turned on.
    The connection is located directly under the thermostat housing in a bugger of a spot to both see and access and I needed to use a set of extra long pointed nosed pliers to refit mine. The plug that connects to it is brown and two pin.
    I'd suspect if a local garage has been working on it and doesn't know Pugs, he may have inadvertently disconnected it and just forgot to reconnect.
    You weren't referring to just a relay behind the grille and near the fans by any chance??
    Good to see it's sorted anyway. If you can do a bit yourself, you'll find they don't cost all that much to keep rolling. The job I just did on ours was about $3500/$4500 at a garage/specialist but cost under $500 all up without the labour charges and the car is now almost as new.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  11. #11
    Tadpole Naything's Avatar
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    Yeah that brown connector was a real pain but it wasn't the problem, it was the box mounted behind the steering as mentioned in this post 405 Mi16 Overheating problem . As for the oil temp it seems to sit around 100 generally, but that one time when the coolant was up to 110+ the oil climbed over 150 before i thought "i don't care if the warning lights aren't coming on i'm pulling over!". Since then it hasn't been out of the ordinary.

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! James504's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naything
    Yeah that brown connector was a real pain but it wasn't the problem,
    Is that the one down and to the back of the Temp sender wire (red wire)? I tried looking for my Bitron today, but couldn't make sence of "under the steering column" Is it inside the Flip down fuse panel? Or further back towards the firewall? Any pictorial guides? Oh how I miss the simple fuse box that filled up with water in the 504.

    James.
    2006 Peugeot 206 Xt
    1991 Toyota mx83 grande 1jzgte

  13. #13
    Tadpole Naything's Avatar
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    The brown connector is in the engine bay just below the thermostat housing, the box i was talking about is visible by flipping down the panel covering the fuses and looking above the steering column, it's about the size of a small mobile phone. It is black with blue writing on it. Hope it solves your problem as it did mine.

  14. #14
    Tadpole
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    Default Running Hot

    Hi all

    Does the Briton box control the "stop" warning light and the temperature warning light? What temperature should these come on at?

    My Mi16 will light the warning lights at between 90 and 100 degrees on the gauge (no numbers on the gauge but the handbook suggests this is the number). It will get to this temperature on hills usually on a hot day or when travelling slowly on hills in a stream of traffic.

    The thermostat is fine, the temperature rises quickly to 80 degrees and climbs only a few degrees higher on hot summer days

    The handbook says the light should come on at 110 degrees so I suspect a faulty sensor.

    Thanks.

    Tony

  15. #15
    Tadpole Naything's Avatar
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    Well some more updates, the box has started chattering now flashing the the 'stop' and 'heat warning' lights simultaneously with about the frequency of morse code, maybe it's trying to tell me something! The temp is still under 90 according to the guage, so i unplugged it again figuring it couldn't do any more damage then it already had. Which of course stopped the chattering and dropped me back to one fan which is ok for highway driving or around gympie but not so good in brissie. But a side affect of unplugging it is that i now have my air con back! Do these symptoms suggest any paticular problems to any one?

  16. #16
    Member SmothePeanut's Avatar
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    Hi,

    I have owned a Sereis 1.5 MI16 for about 2 years now and like many of the people that have owned/own one, I have had constant worries about the cooling, event now. In short all I can say is that if you are not doing track work and dont have a leaking cooling system all you can do is have faith.

    The water temp on my car (as described on many posts here) go up to 80 quickly, then calm down until the oil reaches the same level, then it will stay between 80-95 depending on A/C and whether or not I am moving. From what I have gathered this is quite normal and not to be worried as the water in the system won't boil to well over 100C since its under pressure (hopefully).

    The oil is what I have been worried about most. It will top at about 110C on a hot day(30C+) and about 95 on a cool day (15-20C). Even after driving down the highway for hours on end the days temperature has dictated the oil temp. From what I have noticed by making the fans go full bore by taking out the sensor the water will always go though at 75 - 80 (the thermo minimum, well somewhere around there) and the oil (on my car anyway) will stay at about 90C. Other people have tried using different thermostats (ie that fully open at 75C) and no real difference. So the only conclusion I can gather is that maybe the cooling aint as good as it used to be when the engine was new??? Is this a good assumption based on the fact that the car is almost 15 years old and may not have had regular coolant changes, hence causeing come corrision in the block??? I don't seem to be the only one, so maybe someone can shed some light on this situation.

    All in all, I have been constantly worried about the temp of my car but it has never been an issue, never skipped at beat even on the hottest days. As for your recent lights problem I have no idea, except I have heard of French electronics, and from what I have heard they aint German .

    Hope this helps

    Owen
    "Hurray I'm useful, I am having a wonderful time." Dr Zoidberg

    '91 Peugeot Mi16

  17. #17
    Member Luke G's Avatar
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    I had a 405 series 1 for 7 years and when I first bought it I used to get concerned about the stop light coming on inconjunction with the high temp light, after having the system thoroughly checked I soon realised that it was just faulty. The temp gauge was accurate and after changing the thermostat to an 83 degree one the coolant temp never went above 90, though the warning light would still flicker on (like morse code as described). The temp gauges are usually accurate, its the stop light which is stuffed. Why couldnt they have got the Jap's to wire up the car...

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