407 road manners

[407owner]

I took the family on a picnic yesterday. Tight windy secondary road, not well finished off. I am sorry to report that the 407 did not handle this road at all well!
The rear of the car felt particularly odd at times while cornerning and striking a depression or bump in the road. The rear suspension bottomed out a few times, and once we bottomed out the front as well! Not pretty!
The only way to get the car to behave was to reduce the speed to about 10-20km/hr less than the posted speed limit. I have to say I was more than a little disappointed. My old Subaru would have eaten this road up.

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[kermit]

I've also noticed the 407s rear end isn't as composed as it should be, given the technology available and the market segment in which the car sits. IMO the 406 handles better than the 407, except or initial turn-in. That trick 407 front end is great but you don't necessarily miss it, the 406 is good enough.

[orestes]

Not to turn this into another anti 07 thread, but this is eexactly what people talk about when comparing the current bunch of pugs with their predecessors. In terms of ride, and handeling quality the answer is well... their is no comparison. Sorry for you to have to find out like this, but this is a large reason why a lot of us haven't gone on to own 307's, and 407's

[407owner]

I only have the 306 XSi to compare it against. The 407 is a vastly different car to the 306. We loved the 306's sporty character and ride-on-rails handling.
We still love the 407, but just have to be aware that it does not like poorly constructed roads. Around town and on well made highways, this car is a delight to drive.
I guess no car is perfect.

[68 404]

We still love the 407, but just have to be aware that it does not like poorly constructed roads. Around town and on well made highways, this car is a delight to drive.
I guess no car is perfect.

...except the 406 SV

[bstoned]

I am beginning to wonder what the %^@$ is going on with Peugeot suspensions...

At the time of their release the 406 was said to be very good, but a step backward over the 405's handling.

I only ever drove a 4-cylinder 406, finding it was a bit lifeless until really pushed. THEN it felt like a real Pug!

It sounds from a distance as though it's happening again in the move to the 407. The more I read, the more I think a Pug is not next on my shopping list.
On top of this, 406s are pointed at as the benchmark for handling/ride. Makes the 405 look pretty good indeed.

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

I am beginning to wonder what the %^@$ is going on with Peugeot suspensions...

At the time of their release the 406 was said to be very good, but a step backward over the 405's handling.

I only ever drove a 4-cylinder 406, finding it was a bit lifeless until really pushed. THEN it felt like a real Pug!

It sounds from a distance as though it's happening again in the move to the 407. The more I read, the more I think a Pug is not next on my shopping list.
On top of this, 406s are pointed at as the benchmark for handling/ride. Makes the 405 look pretty good indeed.

Especially when you consider how much more interior and boot room the 405 has.
Just as the 404 became a great car with 1.8 and 2 litre updates the 405 as it becomes available for a few hundred dollars, with engine or transmission problems, may well be a great thing to put the later 16 valve engines and gearboxes into.
Graham

[PJ810]

The salesman told me the 407 is supposed to appeal to the mass market. To me it felt very much like a BMW. Quite sharp, too firm, and not very "french".

I drove it back to back on the same roads with a 607 and the 605. Having driven 405 and 406SV, I can say that the 407 is definitely the odd one out. I liked it though, but it's not the same and I can believe it's going to be too firm on unsealed roads. I don't want to say it appeared better or worse, just very very different.

I've only had the 605SVE on Australian unsealed - which basically becomes a sealed road with a bit of excess dust.

With the 605SV I once accidentally missed a "road closed" sign late one night - found myself negotiating tractors, large concrete pipes the size of my car, and no road surface whatsoever. Reading the map of where I was going, and negotiating a partially open fence at the other side, I didn't think much of it at the time. Peugeot soaked up a few bumps but was otherwise comfortable. The next morning I went back and checked - nearly had a heart attack! There was no way a normal passenger car could have made it through there without getting ditched!

Patrick
605SVE

[Meggsy]

I must admit that when I recently had a 407 on loan I was quite dissapointed with the suspension it was very "Honda-ish" andthe steering left mush to be desired although I was generally impressed with the car give me my 7 year old 406SV handels and breaks better with better fuel economy and cost a lot less.

I think that the last of the 406's must have been a much better car and less trouble.

[SamR]

Could the increasing weight of passenger cars due to them being built stronger to survive impacts have any bearing on how well the suspension performs Or is a 407 still lighter than a 605 etc.?

[PJ810]

Could the increasing weight of passenger cars due to them being built stronger to survive impacts have any bearing on how well the suspension performs Or is a 407 still lighter than a 605 etc.?

How heavy is a 407? A 605 is certainly bigger. Weighs around 1575kg. I do wonder how much stronger a new car is compared to a high-end 1990's vehicle.

Patrick
605SVE

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

How heavy is a 407? A 605 is certainly bigger. Weighs around 1575kg. I do wonder how much stronger a new car is compared to a high-end 1990's vehicle.

Patrick
605SVE

The 605 weighs 1294 in 4 cylinder form, less than a 307?
A V6 weighs 1414.
The 407 2.2 weighs 1480 and the V6 1585.
Graham

[407owner]

The 605 weighs 1294 in 4 cylinder form, less than a 307?
A V6 weighs 1414.
The 407 2.2 weighs 1480 and the V6 1585.
Graham

According to the owners manual the 407 HDi (manual) weighs 1624 kg.

I notice a few people have been saying the 407 suspension is too hard. I think the problem is that the suspension is too soft for the hugh mass of this car.

Ride on the highway feels very good, however. It's only when the road surface gets dodgey that the car starts to feel decidedly uneasy, particularly the read end.

I have no problems with the handling and steering of the car. I've pushed this car hard and fast around some corners and I am still amazed that it will take corners so damned fast. And I don't think I'm anywhere near the limits of it's handling in this regard. As far as I am aware I haven't pushed the car hard enough to cause the stabilitity program to kick in.

[PJ810]

The 605 weighs 1294 in 4 cylinder form, less than a 307?
A V6 weighs 1414.
The 407 2.2 weighs 1480 and the V6 1585.
Graham

OK, time to check:

According to my rego label mine weighs 1527kg.

I clearly remember my SV in Europe weighing over 1500 as well - I had to pay extra road taxes. The exact specifications of the model can make a difference. For example, what does an airconditioning unit weigh? Aircon wasn't standard on the Euro-spec vehicles, and items like airbags, power seat adjustments, sunroofs, etc, all weigh a lot.

All in all 150-200kg shouldn't make it more difficult to make a car handle better. It's the weight of two people sitting in the back seat. One would expect a heavier car to ultimately be more comfortable than a lighter one.

It is interesting though, that with all the new light-weight technology, cars *are* getting so much heavier.

Patrick
605SVE

[PJ810]

According to the owners manual the 407 HDi (manual) weighs 1624 kg.

Does the HDi come with the electronic air suspension?

Patrick
605SVE

[407owner]

Does the HDi come with the electronic air suspension?

Patrick
605SVE

No, only the V6 has that (I think). The weight of the HDi is a combination of the increased engine mass and the extra crumple zones, side intrusion protection etc necessary to get the 5 star crash rating. And all the other "smarts" like the Electronic Stability Program.

[PJ810]

No, only the V6 has that (I think). The weight of the HDi is a combination of the increased engine mass and the extra crumple zones, side intrusion protection etc necessary to get the 5 star crash rating. And all the other "smarts" like the Electronic Stability Program.

I really would be interested to see how a 605 performs if it were fitted with as many airbags as the 407. I'd be surprised if there was much difference. 605 has side intrusion bars, crumple zones, etc etc, and is a very safe car in which to have a crash.

Patrick
605SVE

[Sergetov]

Ride quality is the issue with modern Peugeots. I wonder if increasing road quality in Europe (one thing the EU has done) has changed the handling focus of PSA towards ultimate cornering grip and stability for smooth surfaced roads? In the past, they used to cater for appalling cobbled roads, which worked well for us out here?

[Pug307]

The ride on 407s with 16" wheels is noticeably better than in those with 17"s in my experience.

The front end of the 407 is great (great tolerance of mid corner bumps, noticeably understeer resistant), but the rear end seems somewhat underdone.

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

Ride quality is the issue with modern Peugeots. I wonder if increasing road quality in Europe (one thing the EU has done) has changed the handling focus of PSA towards ultimate cornering grip and stability for smooth surfaced roads? In the past, they used to cater for appalling cobbled roads, which worked well for us out here?

I'm sure that's right, on smooth hot mix the 307 is amazingly quiet.
Graham

[Trixie]

Same for C4. Driving enthusiastically through the Royal National Park a couple of weeks back I was really impressed by its ability in the corners. Its a very sharp handler, and is firmly, sportingly damped; almost no float to speak of. Still seems to cope well with big lumps, even a couple of particularly nasty mid-corner ones. Its a world away from the ZX's soft, rolly ride and in a way has less distinct character because of it. And while its going to corner flatter and a bit faster, I get the feeling the loss of lower speed ride comfort is not quite made up for by its handling advantage when on below-average roads.

Having said that, it rides rather better with a bit of speed up.

When I drove the 407 (petrol 2.2 auto on 17's), I also found it a little.... strange; glued-down front end but the rear felt a little stiff over bumps yet roly in corners. It drove like it looks; as if a fair bit of weight was out the front.

[PJ810]

More speed definitely helps, although I'm not familiar enough with the 407, having only driven it for about half an hour, albeit on a mixed bag of roads in Sydney. The 605 becomes really compliant once you pass about 100km/h. Heading onto the Harbour Bridge from the city, the lanes are full of cracks, filler, old lane markings, etc. These are not upsetting at all but can be felt, (and are far more noticeable in other cars) however, late at night I'm always faced with the dilemma of ignoring the speed limit there and bringing it up to about 100km/h. You feel nothing at all and the car literally feels like it's gliding over all the mess.

As for unsealed conditions, I don't really have much experience with Peugeots. However, I've done a hell of a lot of unsealed driving with old Volvos. They generally handled far better at higher speeds. From about 30-60km/h the car would vibrate so badly that your vision was blurred, but bridge that gap and cruise at 70-80km/h and the uneveness was barely noticeable. I've only bottomed out once, just out of Hill End, leaving a big dent in the back of the car - that road is now sealed.

But of course there are things you can do with a well-used Volvo 240 that you wouldn't dare try if you've just shelled out your hard-earned money on a brand new 407 that is supposed to remain shiny for the foreseeable future.

Patrick
605SVE

[407owner]

More speed definitely helps, although I'm not familiar enough with the 407, having only driven it for about half an hour, albeit on a mixed bag of roads in Sydney. The 605 becomes really compliant once you pass about 100km/h. Heading onto the Harbour Bridge from the city, the lanes are full of cracks, filler, old lane markings, etc. These are not upsetting at all but can be felt, (and are far more noticeable in other cars) however, late at night I'm always faced with the dilemma of ignoring the speed limit there and bringing it up to about 100km/h. You feel nothing at all and the car literally feels like it's gliding over all the mess.

As for unsealed conditions, I don't really have much experience with Peugeots. However, I've done a hell of a lot of unsealed driving with old Volvos. They generally handled far better at higher speeds. From about 30-60km/h the car would vibrate so badly that your vision was blurred, but bridge that gap and cruise at 70-80km/h and the uneveness was barely noticeable. I've only bottomed out once, just out of Hill End, leaving a big dent in the back of the car - that road is now sealed.

But of course there are things you can do with a well-used Volvo 240 that you wouldn't dare try if you've just shelled out your hard-earned money on a brand new 407 that is supposed to remain shiny for the foreseeable future.

Patrick
605SVE

We've had our 407 on unsealed roads once. I wasn't pretty!

Took our kids to Pony Camp. Highway driving was fun and relaxing but their "driveway" ( 5 km of the worse dirt road you could imagine ) was another matter.

Near the end I underestimated the height of an obstacle and CRUNCH - there went the license plate protector! Fortunately the front farring is plastic is it bounced back with no damage.

I was at the dealers today ( for a new license plate protector ) and noticed another 407 HDi in the customer parking area. His license plate was BENT AROUND the front faring. Obviously he'd given up trying to protect it. The faring itself looked in good shape though - so I'm thinking a "slimline" license plate might be a good investment.

BTW - I'm noticing a distinctly anti-07 vibe on this forum. May I suggest you guys actually drive one before slagging them off? Sure, they have their shortcomings, but the plusses FAR OUTWEIGH the minuses - IMHO. Our 407 is streets ahead of our old 306 in terms of built-quality, safety and fuel economy. Getting the best out of the car is taking us a while to get used to - but hey - it's a Peugeot. Isn't that supposed to be part of the fun? If we'd wanted a boring safe commuter car we'd have bought a Corolla.

Dammit - '07 owners are Peugeot people too!

[PJ810]

Dammit - '07 owners are Peugeot people too!

Hmmm.

[407owner]

Hmmm.

That was the reaction I expected...