Near catastrophe
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  1. #1
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Default Near catastrophe

    i near stuffed the whole shebang in the 604 today

    i thought seeing as i had a falcon weber or 2 sitting in the shed i might have a play and stick it on the 604 for something to do

    seems simple enough and what could go wrong ???

    so off comes the old weber and a rag shove into the manifold to stop anything from falling in

    i get to putting a kit through the other weber and making up some longer studs to mount it

    i get all that done and then i start thinking about the throttle linkage for the carb as it works in reverse from the old weber which after a few modifications all seems to be well

    then onto the air cleaner to modify it to fit the falcon weber, now i didn't want to modify the air cleaner from the old weber so i set to modifying another one i had

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    after about an hour i had all that done and in between time i sat the falcon weber on the manifold and had it all set to tighten up and wire the choke and idle soleniod up

    all pretty straight forward so far and everything seemed to be going quite well

    i thought to myself before i put throttle linkage on i'll just start the car up and make sure all is ok

    damn a fuel leak from the line on the fuel filter so i turned the ignition off and replace with a new hose

    no more leaks

    ok now i can start the car

    turn the power on and check all the lines just to make sure there weren't any more leaks anywhere and then i started her up

    started pretty well and then it started making a racket and missing on one pot, damn what the hell is wrong with this thing

    started checking plug leads and nothing amiss there

    look up and here is smoke bellowing from the back of the car and i start thinking of the noise and how it sounds like a big end and the fact that the car is missing on that pot and i have smoke and all sorts of things start going through my head

    so, i shut her down and light up a smoke to have a think about what i am going to do then it hits me, the damn rag was still in the bloody manifold

    i rip the carb off and shine a torch down each runner and sure enough i see the end of the rag in number 4 runner

    some choice words start going through my mine at this stage and of course what damage has been done internally to my good engine

    i took the plug out and here i could see the end of the rag in the cylinder, more choice words start flooding my mind

    i grab some long nose pliers and tug at the end of the rag in the runner but hardly any movement so i turned the engine over a little to see if the valve releases the rag and it does and the whole rag comes back out

    i then think i should give that cylinder a compression test but alas i loaned my guage to my boss so he could do a test on one of his fiats so i thought stuff it

    throw the plug back in and put the carb back on and give her a kick again

    she starts on all 6 and sounds ok

    i think to myself that that really doesn't mean too much as the valve could still be slighty bent

    i give the new carb a quick tune and throw the linkage and air cleaner on and take it for a run

    the car goes like the clappers when the secondary opens up and all seems to be ok

    i may still play with jets but at the moment my major concern will be number 4 pot but the car seemed to go well and much better than before with the old carb

    so that was my day playing with the 604

    what a huge mistake and it could have been a lot worse so i might go and buy a lottery ticket
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! Phil Whitton's Avatar
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    OH DEAR.................
    well it reminds me of a N**A tow in job I had a few years ago in a type 3 VW wagon. Seems like the patrol man disconnected the fuel line to the carby and lost the line clamp.
    Well he found it on start up. I had the job of striping down the head and removing the impacted clip from the head and piston crown.
    But wait there's more................................

    a friend once had a Healey 100S. Now there were only about 50 built so in the course of the restoration and the 2 nights before he had to have it onto the train to Melbourne was fitting the carbys to the ally head.
    "Oh dear, we seam to be missing one brass manifold stud nut."
    "Grab one from the odds tray."
    " Everything OK? "
    "start it up"
    BANG.
    "Found it."
    Now thats where the term "Bugger" came from!
    Rapid strip down and machind chamber and crown.
    The car was since sold to UK for 275000 POUNDS!

    Pays to take time and check ...]


    bon chance

  3. #3
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    "My 604 runs on the smell of an oily rag..."

    Pugrambo, 2005.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey
    "My 604 runs on the smell of an oily rag..."

    Pugrambo, 2005.



    absolutely PMSL reading that one

    i suppose i was lucky it wasn't anything solid and was only a rag
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Or -'pugrambo's Car Is On The Rags'-bazz

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! 505 to the max's Avatar
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    Or "from rags to riches", depending on the jetting of course.
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  7. #7
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    you're lucky you didnt start an engine fire

  8. #8
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    no idea on what the economy is like yet and with the way it's going i have a feeling that the first run is not going to return anything great as it's just too much fun to drive

    must make a note to myself to lift foot so as not to open up the 2nd throat all the time but the noise and kick is addictive

    also having a choke that works is a novelty

    walk out to car, put key in and turn ignition on, slightly touch pedal and turn key and bang she's off and running with hardly a touch on the starter and idles at around 1300rpm and slowly comes back down to normal after a couple of minutes if i let it sit there

    and i am still using the 604 air cleaner so all looks standard except for the cold air intake
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  9. #9
    XTC
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    Where was the nurse during all this Rambo?... it's their job to check if all the parts are accounted for ... saves opening up the patient again !!! (and a law suit).

    - xTc -
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




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  10. #10
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XTC
    Where was the nurse during all this Rambo?... it's their job to check if all the parts are accounted for ... saves opening up the patient again !!! (and a law suit).

    - xTc -

    the nurse was in the house but she did help to pull the rag back out while i turned the engine so the valve could release the other end of it

    just lucky it didn't cause any major damage as i had thoughts of bent valves going through my head seeing as their isn't a lot of room for error in there with the high domed pistons
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Near catastrophe.

    'Rambo,
    Tsk. Tsk. You having a HD fitters ticket? an' all!

    As one of the above in my earlier working life this,rag incident, would have you out the gate.
    Everything on the job would carry an aircraft type tag, steering wheels, hydraulic controls etc. Regardless, things still happened.

  12. #12
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    'Rambo,
    Tsk. Tsk. You having a HD fitters ticket? an' all!

    As one of the above in my earlier working life this,rag incident, would have you out the gate.
    Everything on the job would carry an aircraft type tag, steering wheels, hydraulic controls etc. Regardless, things still happened.

    you are right about bieng out the gate with something like that and i have seen it happen

    my mind was wondering in all different directions with thoughts of how to fit up the throttle cable and get the air cleaner to fit and having the kids attacking each other outside the shed and i just lost track of the rag

    i remember puttnig the studs in place and then sliding the adaptor on and seeing the rag in there and then i put the plastic gasket/spacer on and still thought i best remove that rag before sticking the carby on as i didn't want any foreign objects going down the big hole

    i then picked up the carb and placed it on the studs and started to feed it down and forgot all about the damn rag

    first time i have ever made a mistake like that after years and years of playing and working on all things mechanical

    i even go as far as never ever carrying a rag in the engine bay as i have seen quite a few people do over the years
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts mr bern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    i best remove that rag before sticking the carby on as i didn't want any foreign objects going down the big hole
    Not quite of the same order, but many years ago, one of my earliest cars was a mighty Humber Hawk tourer with no rear suspension, but with real leather upholstery and a lovely sounding Lukey sports muffler that really used to crackle on cold mornings. Somehow I came to be driving it for a protracted period without its air cleaner ... a really bad idea in the days when petrol stations could still combine driveway service (yes, that long ago) with work experience.

    Well, the best part of a pint of oil went down "the big hole" before anyone thought better of it. Found out that day that a battery hygrometer is one way to suck oil out of a carby, though not much at a time, and I think I laid down a pretty solid smokescreen for at least the next 15km ... I was just thankful that it started at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    ...and having the kids attacking each other outside the shed and i just lost track of the rag...
    Yep. I've found I have to be really careful with the kids around (fighting as usual) as you get distracted and tend to make mistakes. I've got a cam belt job on the Astra this weekend (assuming the missus has recovered from her pneumonia) and they'll be out of sight...

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

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    I don't remember the full story but a friend was finishing the engine rebuild for his XK150 roadster resto, he was using a piece of dipstick in a plug hole to find TDC to set the valve clearances. All was ok until he finished the first cylinder, then turned her over to do the second - all of a sudden there was a bit of a lump in the rotation followed by the awful realisation, the "just short enough" dipstick had dropped completely into the cylinder... Ended up finding bits in the sump & had to take the head off to get the rest out.

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey
    "My 604 runs on the smell of an oily rag..."

    Pugrambo, 2005.

    And the envelope please.......the winner of the inaugrial A/F mechanic of the year is.drummmmm roll....Pugrambo

    I can't, well shouldn't laugh I am sure my off-sider could tell a story or two about me.

    My worst was frying my arm an alternator on an R18 when my medic alert bracelet which I'd have normally removed shorted the terminals. The smell of burning hair and flesh...

    Rambo, you should go buy a scratch lotto ticket. Very lucky.
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    Member SLIPPERY PIZZA's Avatar
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    Another one to be very wary of is that some bonnet catches ( particularly on older vehicles) can grab wedding rings and do you a damage if you have it with only one hand & the bonnet rod in the other.

    Anyways, after all that when Rambo has the car in final tune,we V6 owners need to know the results:- LTs/ KM, performance etc etc. How does it compare to the Injected V6 ( Rambo owns one also??).
    Maybe Rambo may be kind enough to post all the info here to save us time sorting out jet sizes etc. The Webers off Falcons were D38 or D34 something- something??
    Nothing like the sound of heaps of petrol getting "SLURPED" down in gallons when that second throat opens up, this sound always cheers me up when I give the 4 BL Rambler Rebel a bit of stick
    "The bigger the Emu egg the heavier the burden"

  18. #18
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLIPPERY PIZZA
    Another one to be very wary of is that some bonnet catches ( particularly on older vehicles) can grab wedding rings and do you a damage if you have it with only one hand & the bonnet rod in the other.

    Anyways, after all that when Rambo has the car in final tune,we V6 owners need to know the results:- LTs/ KM, performance etc etc. How does it compare to the Injected V6 ( Rambo owns one also??).
    Maybe Rambo may be kind enough to post all the info here to save us time sorting out jet sizes etc. The Webers off Falcons were D38 or D34 something- something??
    Nothing like the sound of heaps of petrol getting "SLURPED" down in gallons when that second throat opens up, this sound always cheers me up when I give the 4 BL Rambler Rebel a bit of stick

    i am working on an injection setup for the 604 and hopefully over the xmas break i'll have it all on a car completed

    i thought i'd give the 34ADM from a falcon a run just for the hell of it and also to see what can and can't be done with it

    when i do my next run out of town i'll report back with consumption figures but as for performance it has bucket loads now and when you open up the secondary it just hammers

    you can crack the throttle open without any hesitation from the engine and the only tell tale when you floor it on take off is a slight plume of black smoke

    i was thinking of playing with a 4bbl but seeing as i had a couple of these falcon XE webers sitting around it was easy to just play with putting one on

    the car idles as well as it ever has and now that it has a choke it starts very quickly

    even with the little running aorund town i put fuel in it the other day and it had 1/2 a tank and it is still sitting on 1/2 a tank where as before the guage would have moved a little by now so it seems to be a bit better around town fuel wise

    just trying to keep it at or under the 50km/h limit is the hard thing now

    i am slowly growing out of the flooring it to hear the lovely sound syndrome but i am looking forward to taking it for a run out of town to see how she goes both economy wise and performance wise on the open road

    i am still running the water injection and static timing is set at 15deg advance plus i have the cold air pipe ramming air into the standard air cleaner complete with a new element

    when i pulled the top off the air cleaner the other day when i started the conversion and due to the cold air intake i even found a few complete butterflys sitting on the far side of the air cleaner so the cold air must be working
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  19. #19
    Member SLIPPERY PIZZA's Avatar
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    Hi Rambo,
    could you please let us know , is this the 2849 engine with the Volvo cams, electronic dizzy etc . Should end up a "NICE DRIVE".
    Have fun.




    "Never let your Nulla Nulla dangle in the dust"
    "The bigger the Emu egg the heavier the burden"

  20. #20
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLIPPERY PIZZA
    Hi Rambo,
    could you please let us know , is this the 2849 engine with the Volvo cams, electronic dizzy etc . Should end up a "NICE DRIVE".
    Have fun.




    "Never let your Nulla Nulla dangle in the dust"

    2849 engine running around 10.5:1CR with type 2 volvo cams from a 2849 engine which have the best overlap and highest lift of the standard cams that the volvo had in these engines from the 260 series cars

    604 heads with the exhaust ports cleaned up and match ported to the manifolds and inlets cleaned up a bit

    valves have 3 angle cuts on them

    inlet manifold opening opened up to provide clean unrestricted flow and the runner from the old primary carb cut back and blocked off internally again to create a smooth flow which in turn creates a nice plenum under the carb and a cleaner flow to the front cylinders

    twin points dissy at the moment just to prove a point that they are reliable but i do have a volvo electronic dissy ready to go in when i put the injection on as it makes sense then as it will be one less item to service

    plugs are 4 prong champion jobbies

    604 block machined out to suit the larger volvo liners

    standard 604 air cleaner modified to suit the weber complete with snorkel that normally sucks hot air up from behind the engine but has cold air pipe running into it from a snorkel behind the grille to force cooler air into the engine

    water injection plumbed into the vacuum advance line on the carb to prevent pinging and also allows the car to run more static advance which at this point is 15deg

    jets in the carb are standard XE falcon at this stage and will be monitored to see how the fuel usage goes

    so really the engine isn't over worked but more so just a nice clean engine

    would be interesting to see what it does on a dyno just for curiosity

    the next engine will be better again and it should be in a car and running in early in the new year so keep tuned

    i will continue with odd fire engines as they just sound so damn good and i enjoy making nice clean N/A versions and leave turbos to the people that know more about them than i do

    i'd love a turbo one but i'm a simple person

    the bum in the seat estimation so far i would say the car has around 160hp and may possibly go a little more with a free'er flowing exhaust on it and that is on the cards
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  21. #21
    Member SLIPPERY PIZZA's Avatar
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    I agree with your philosophy Rambo, not too many mods- just a clean engine, like porting and polishing, correct timing ,good points etc-etc.
    Over my 35 years of tinkering with cars & rebuilding them I find that this is where you should begin.
    So many of my mates have brought there cars around for me to have a fiddle even after they have had it serviced -(what ever that means??), by the time the points are set properly, timing, perished vacuum lines replaced,leaky inlet manifolds fixed, mixture screws adjusted or reseated where some one has screwed them half way into the carby, the car performs nearly as good as the manufacturer intended- what a surprise , they exclaim !!
    I just call it good maintainence & starting with the basics -seen many V8's done by a well tuned 6 in my youth.
    "The bigger the Emu egg the heavier the burden"

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    well yesterday i found out just how much fun the car is on a wet road now

    with the old carb it would never break traction in the rear end on a sealed surface but with the new one it can quite easily do this even with 215's holding it to the road

    i found this out when coming home from work and the rain had stopped about 15 mins before driving home so the road was still damp but was drying out after a fairly warm day

    i came around a bend in the roadand had someone pull out from a side road in front of me which is fairly typical in this town of cornflake lisense holders and as i had room to move i went straight around them and gave the car a bit of a boot and away she went

    i thought that was fun so when i pulled up at the next intersection i gave her a squirt across the highway just for the hell of it and again it broke traction

    it was all worth the grin factor and not indicative of how i normally drive but it's good to know that it doesn't just bog down anymore and has turned it into more of a drivers car now
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  23. #23
    Member SLIPPERY PIZZA's Avatar
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    "VERY NICE" Rambo, similar feeling as when a few years ago my pristine stock standard one owner VK Berlina, was given a new Holley & a set of extractors for my Christmas present.
    Probably only up the horses by 10 -20, but I know what you mean, it turned a car that was a very comfortable sedate drive into something a little more responsive.
    Hope none of the young PUGGERS are reading this as they will think we are both of with the fairies.
    I notice you said that you were running 215's- on the standard rims ??-they don't rub on anything?? This was to be one of my questions on the forum one day, 215's would really set the car off.

    As my missus say's "BOYS & THEIR TOY'S".
    "The bigger the Emu egg the heavier the burden"

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i run 14"x6" alloys on the car with the 215's on them

    i can't stand the standard size tyres they came with and for the life of me i could never understand why they put 175's on a 604 when something like a 404 had 165's

    the 215's fill out the car nicely and it takes away some of that skinny rear end look they have

    they don't rub on anything so all is good
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLIPPERY PIZZA
    Another one to be very wary of is that some bonnet catches ( particularly on older vehicles) can grab wedding rings and do you a damage if you have it with only one hand & the bonnet rod in the other.

    Nothing like the sound of heaps of petrol getting "SLURPED" down in gallons when that second throat opens up, this sound always cheers me up when I give the 4 BL Rambler Rebel a bit of stick
    Hey slippery, my Dad used to drive Ramblers, and had a nice white Rebel back in the 70's. Had a 290ci in it, from memory.

    Speaking of rings, they should never be worn when using machinery, welders etc. I've heard of people getting their fingers ripped off in machines (in a car factory), and nastily, a guy that had a big lump of weld adhere to his wedding ring and the heat instantaneously go through the gold. The ring sunk into his flesh, burning it deeply. Arrrgh!

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

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