504 Clutch puzzle
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default 504 Clutch puzzle

    Can anyone help me? While driving in a city street, the clutch on my 504 suddenly gave out. I towed the car home and checked both the slave and master cylinders for leaks etc. and found that when the clutch pedal was pushed in there was full movement in the clutch fork. I took the engine out and found the clip on the back of the clutch fork was broken. I replaced that, put it all back together, and still could not engage the clutch. I then took the engine out again and replaced the clutch plate and pressure plate. I have now put the engine back in and still canot get it into gear.
    The strange thing is that when the clutch pedal is depressed, I cannot move the gear lever at all, yet when the clutch pedal is not depressed, the gear lever feels like it's going into gear and yet it's not as the car will not move.
    Does anyone have any ideas?

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  2. #2
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    Howdy, and welcome to Aussiefrogs...

    To diagnose this people might need more info about the initial failure.

    When you say it 'gave out', do you mean that the pedal went all loose like it wasn't doing anything? Did the car still drive, and the gearbox seem ok at that point? This might just separate what happened before you took it apart from something that might have been put back together incorrectly.

    Cheers

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  3. #3
    Tadpole
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    The pedal didn't go loose and the car wouldn't drive at all. However, I seem to remember that just prior to that, while changing gear, after releasing the clutch, it took about 15 - 20 seconds to engage. That's why I assumed it was the clutch. It was shortly after that that I could not drive at all.

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peugdriv
    The pedal didn't go loose and the car wouldn't drive at all. However, I seem to remember that just prior to that, while changing gear, after releasing the clutch, it took about 15 - 20 seconds to engage. That's why I assumed it was the clutch. It was shortly after that that I could not drive at all.

    Three things spring to mind - sheared spline at the back of the gearbox or a bent synchromesh ring assembly in the gear box or a broken selector mechanism in the gearbox.

    When you had the engine out did you turn the gearbox input shaft by hand - what happened?

  5. #5
    Tadpole
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    No, I never thought to try and turn the shaft as I was thinking "clutch". But when the engine is running, and the clutch is NOT depressed, the gear stick is able to be moved and it feels like it's in gear (but it isn't as the car won't move) but once I depress the clutch, the gear stick won't move.

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peugdriv
    No, I never thought to try and turn the shaft as I was thinking "clutch". But when the engine is running, and the clutch is NOT depressed, the gear stick is able to be moved and it feels like it's in gear (but it isn't as the car won't move) but once I depress the clutch, the gear stick won't move.

    Strange.
    1. Have you checked the gear linkages to see if they are intact and operating. IE get underneath and watch what happens when someone else operates the gear shift and clutch pedal.
    Please don't do this when the engine is running and please use quality stands not hydraulic jacks..


    2. When you have the engine running and the clutch engaged and you 'think' its going into gear (or the gear lever moves) do you hear any grinding noises. My GTI 505 (auto) sheared the gearbox output spline back in '98 and when trying to 'drive' all I heard was grinding. If there is grinding then my guess is the gearbox has to come out.

    3. It's a puzzler why the gear lever won't move when you have the clutch disengaged. However my parent's 403 was a bit like this and when the gearbox came out there was a synchomesh assembly which was twisted like spaghetti. But this also made gear changes when running almost immposible as well.

    Whatever it is, it sounds a lot like the engine and gearbox will have to come out (again).

    I wish you luck and am eager to find out what the problem is.
    Roland
    Last edited by Roland; 28th October 2005 at 11:25 AM.

  7. #7
    Tadpole
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    After reading these coments I'm starting to think it might be the gearbox too. My next day off is Monday so I guess I'll spend it taking the engine out and the gearbox and let you know what I find.

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! Filldebin's Avatar
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    To my mind it sounds like the splines have had it somewhere along the drive-line and it probably (possibly) is the one from the tail shaft connecting onto the diff. If it is then it is most likely the inner spline (female) of the shaft.
    My
    Phil

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peugdriv
    After reading these coments I'm starting to think it might be the gearbox too. My next day off is Monday so I guess I'll spend it taking the engine out and the gearbox and let you know what I find.

    Peugdriv,
    any news on your strange clutch/gearbox problem - did you get the engine and gearbox out yet - what did you find?

    Roland

  10. #10
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    Icon5

    Hear, hear! What was the problem in the end?

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland
    Peugdriv,
    any news on your strange clutch/gearbox problem - did you get the engine and gearbox out yet - what did you find?

    Roland
    Anything?

    Did you fix it yet?

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! Westair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peugdriv
    After reading these coments I'm starting to think it might be the gearbox too. My next day off is Monday so I guess I'll spend it taking the engine out and the gearbox and let you know what I find.
    Similar thing happened to my wife many years ago in our 504-changed gear and turned corner and lost drive completely. She also thought that further back the clutch was slipping.
    To cut long story short it was splines on end of tailshaft-worn to nothing and finally no more drive.
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  13. #13
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    I had this problem with a 505 diesel. The vendor said that the engine was kaput, something with the pump etc, so when I finally got the car home and tried to start the car I decided to throw in the 504 engine I had. After quite a bit of mucking around the engine started like a beaut, but the car went nowhere. It was after checking the gearbox etc that I discovered that the spline had gone at the back. In Sweden you can get information about previous owners from the rego branch and I spoke to the bloke. He had been driving in town, parked the car, shopped, came out, started the car and it refused to budge. So he rang the man he had bought the car from only a couple of months before and made him take the car back. Subsequently, the car sat up in Gothenburg for about a year before I bought it and the vendor had forgotten what was wrong with the car. So I had changed the engine for nothing and I fixed the driveshaft and then the crankshaft broke anyway after a few months. I still have the 505 engine, but I have never actually had it going. It probably is quite good- the original purchaser said it was great and used very little fuel.
    I just got rid the car after that.
    Phil

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