504 ti rear spring removal
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  1. #1
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    Default 504 ti rear spring removal

    hey

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    i have a quick question, which will most likely return a complicated answer...

    Q: how do you remove the rear springs from a 504???

    this is because i have a set of 505 springs to go in, and i dont have that much know how on rear spring removal,as this is the first time i have done it...

    thanks,
    mike
    1972 504 Ti

  2. #2
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    The quick answer is that you have to remove everything you need to remove so the trailing arms can be dropped (brakes, drive shafts etc.). It is a fairly involved procedure compared to rear spring replacement in other car types. Point of caution though: The 505 spring rates are significantly higher, so if it were my car I would also convert to 505 front springs to avoid oversteer.

    Thanos

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike L
    hey

    i have a quick question, which will most likely return a complicated answer...

    Q: how do you remove the rear springs from a 504???

    this is because i have a set of 505 springs to go in, and i dont have that much know how on rear spring removal,as this is the first time i have done it...

    thanks,
    mike

  3. #3
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    Default

    thanks thanos,

    how do i remove the drive shafts?, etc...

    as i have never done this before, i dont know how every thing comes off,

    thanks
    mike
    1972 504 Ti

  4. #4
    Member amremarah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike L
    thanks thanos,

    how do i remove the drive shafts?, etc...

    as i have never done this before, i dont know how every thing comes off,

    thanks
    mike
    mike

    I think going to a mechanic will be SAFER and easier, he will achieve the job not more than half an hour for both springs with the proper and safe tools,...I myself did this setup at a mechanic and it will not be an easy job for you as you say you never have done this before

    Amr Emarah
    1975 504GL

  5. #5
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike L
    thanks thanos,

    how do i remove the drive shafts?, etc...

    as i have never done this before, i dont know how every thing comes off,

    thanks
    mike

    step by step

    place a chock behind the wheel on the ground

    jack the car up one side at a time

    take the wheel off

    remove the bots that hold the brake caliper in place and gently move to the side out of the way, no need to totally remove the caliper

    with an 8mm allen key you need to spin the disc around slowly to line up the hole with each of the 4 bolts that hold the hub to the trailing arm and remove each of them

    gently slide the axle from the diff and arm keeping an eye on the boots aso you don't damage them

    place a 2nd jack under the arm where the hub of the rear axle was

    undo the bolt holding the sway bar to the drop down link into the trailing arm

    undo the bolt at the bottom of the shock

    push the shock up as far as you can

    carefully lower the jack holding the trailing arm and the spring will come free

    carefully remove the spring

    assembly is reversal of above
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  6. #6
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    Default thanks

    hey

    thanks for ur advice, thats exactly what i did pugrambo, it took acouple of hrs, but i learnt a bit about the car... it accualy wasent that hard at all to do,

    mike
    1972 504 Ti

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike L
    hey

    thanks for ur advice, thats exactly what i did pugrambo, it took acouple of hrs, but i learnt a bit about the car... it accualy wasent that hard at all to do,

    mike
    It gets easier each time you do it

    Be gentle with the brake caliper as the lines can be fragile sometimes, like on Sunday afternoons

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  8. #8
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    I like the sound of it. It does seem step by step.

    How are the 505 springs?

    shobbz
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shobbz
    I like the sound of it. It does seem step by step.

    How are the 505 springs?

    shobbz
    so far.... im accualy not that sure, i havent had a chance to take it for a spin yet.. but from what i can feel when i push the back down its feels about the same as the old ones.... as they came out of a 505 that waz being wrecked

    im probably going to have to bit the bullet and buy some new 504 heavy duty ones from EAI

    mike
    1972 504 Ti

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike L
    im probably going to have to bit the bullet and buy some new 504 heavy duty ones from EAI

    mike
    Before you do that check the ride height to see if it any different than before. The 505 springs are supposed to be around 20% stiffer than the 504's so I am not sure how easily you can feel that by just pushing down. If the height from the ground going through the center of the wheel to the center of the guard is 60-62 cm, chances are the springs are good enough.

    BTW, what are the color codes of the 505 springs? Check Ralph's very useful spring rates database to get an idea of the spring rates, then deduct around 20% for aging. Your old TI springs were probably around 160 lbs/inch by the time you pulled them.

    Thanos
    Last edited by Thanos; 25th October 2005 at 12:37 AM.

  11. #11
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    The spring rates database is off to a slow old start! I thought there'd be a lot more interest in it as questions about rates and identification of springs seem to pop up on this forum and others regularly. Mike, if you could get the colours and measurements from the springs and what cars they came from, that'd be great. Post them on the link below. Every bit of info appreciated. C'mon Rambo, you'd have a few sets of springs lying around!

    Thanos has kindly posted some very interesting information and calculations about springs which is worth a read if considering changing springs. See link below.

    Cheers,

    Matt.
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    Trouble is Ralph 99% of us haven't an f'ing clue, and the other 1% are scared off by that dog. Aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!

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  13. #13
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    Default going to buy new springs

    hey

    i think that im going to bite the bullet and buy some new ones from EAI, the 505 ones are a little bit stiffer, but they have changed some thing with the car... when driving, they make some sorta noise (wasent there with the old springs) and the have given the drivers side wheel a fair bit of negative camber (i think so).... and they have also lowered the car a fair bit (i think) it sits 60cm (from ground to gard) on the drivers side and 62cm on the passenger side..

    ill get a photo of the negative camber

    mike
    1972 504 Ti

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanos
    Before you do that check the ride height to see if it any different than before. The 505 springs are supposed to be around 20% stiffer than the 504's so I am not sure how easily you can feel that by just pushing down. If the height from the ground going through the center of the wheel to the center of the guard is 60-62 cm, chances are the springs are good enough.
    as u would have read above, the are 60cm on the drivers side, and 62cm on the passenger side,

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanos
    BTW, what are the color codes of the 505 springs? Check Ralph's very useful spring rates database to get an idea of the spring rates, then deduct around 20% for aging. Your old TI springs were probably around 160 lbs/inch by the time you pulled them.

    Thanos
    the colour code is red, red, yellow

    mike
    Last edited by Mike L; 26th October 2005 at 04:45 PM.
    1972 504 Ti

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! Ralph's Avatar
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    Thanks Mike it's been entered into the database. They sound like they have come off a 505GTi as the colour code I have for these was Red Red Yellow, is this the case?. I fitted a set to my GR last weekend and they have made a real difference. The rear end sits level, it used to slope to the right and it feels a lot firmer.

    I used a similar technique to that Rambo described except after jacking the rear of the car up I used a trolley jack to push the trailing arm up until the rear axle was almost level then removed the disc/axle assy. I also removed both dampers as I couldn't see how the spring could be taken out without doing this. The top of the spring has to be pulled out first. The way the Haynes manual describes the procedure turns it into a major task, dropping the rear crossmember and all that.

    C'mon Edge, you're underestimating the intelligence of us all! All a person has to do is crawl under their respective rear wheel drive Pugs and have a look at the colours painted on their springs and post that info plus make, model and year on manufacture to the link in my sig and the job's done! If you have a set lying around you can also do the additional measurements.

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  16. #16
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    the springs that i put in... i think were the ones on the left of the pic that u had in the "spring rate database" they were about 1inch maybe a bit less in height then the ones that i pulled out

    Spring Rates Database

    (man.. i should realy be doing english study, cuz ive got my exam on friday... 3hrs what a drainer...)

    mike
    1972 504 Ti

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! Ralph's Avatar
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    Thanks Mike. The ones on the left (Red Red Yel) are out of a GTi (now on my GR) and the right hand ones are out of a GR I wrecked earlier this year.

    Good luck with your exams.

    Matt.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike L
    the springs that i put in... i think were the ones on the left of the pic that u had in the "spring rate database" they were about 1inch maybe a bit less in height then the ones that i pulled out

    Spring Rates Database

    (man.. i should realy be doing english study, cuz ive got my exam on friday... 3hrs what a drainer...)

    mike
    That would drop the car by at least 2 inches if they weren't any stiffer.
    These springs made a huge difference when I had them in my 505GR.
    There is movement on some rally spec springs, somone at last is going to the trouble of getting a set made.
    Let you know how this turns out. Seems Hi Lux shockers are the way to go. Certainly anything else except factory spec doesn't work.
    Graham
    Graham

  19. #19
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph

    I used a similar technique to that Rambo described except after jacking the rear of the car up I used a trolley jack to push the trailing arm up until the rear axle was almost level then removed the disc/axle assy. I also removed both dampers as I couldn't see how the spring could be taken out without doing this. The top of the spring has to be pulled out first. The way the Haynes manual describes the procedure turns it into a major task, dropping the rear crossmember and all that.

    if you take the bottom bolt out for the shock and push it up as far as it will go and then push the trailing arm down hard you will get the spring out and still be able to leave the shock in place as it will move around enough on it's top bushes

    when you own 604's and realise how much trouble it is to get to the top shock mounts you tend to leave them alone unless it absolutely necessary

    i have never taken the shocks out when doing a spring change yet in 504, 505, 604 sedans
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  20. #20
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    I think you scored a good set of springs, Mike, I would let them be. What you really need now to balance your car is get a set of front late STI or GTI springs. Have a look at Ralph's database for the color codes. You can also get acceptable results on the cheap by cutting one whole turn from the top of your existing coil. This will drop the nose about an inch and stiffen the front by about 12%.

    After you study for your exams, that is!

    Good luck

    Thanos

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    That would drop the car by at least 2 inches if they weren't any stiffer.
    These springs made a huge difference when I had them in my 505GR.
    There is movement on some rally spec springs, somone at last is going to the trouble of getting a set made.
    Let you know how this turns out. Seems Hi Lux shockers are the way to go. Certainly anything else except factory spec doesn't work.
    Graham
    Graham
    Hi Graham,

    Any further details on the Hilux shocks. They are the shocks of the front of the Hilux I believe? Any particular model / year of Hilux or are they a standard item across the range?
    PJ

  22. #22
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    I have GTi fronts down as either Red Red or Blue Blue. I'll try and cofirm this this afternoon by having a look at my GTi. I just had a look then and couldn't see any markings, it will have to be jacked up.

    Matt.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph
    I have GTi fronts down as either Red Red or Blue Blue. I'll try and cofirm this this afternoon by having a look at my GTi. I just had a look then and couldn't see any markings, it will have to be jacked up.

    Matt.
    That's correct, Matt. Green Yellow will also work.

    Thanos

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