407 coupe diesel reviewed
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Dr_Pug's Avatar
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    Default 407 coupe diesel reviewed

    Exhibited at sydney motorshow



    Peugeot previewed the stunning 407 two-door coupe before its official launch in the first quarter of 2006. Peugeot boss Rob Dommerson confirmed two engines, including a twin-turbocharged 2.7-litre V6 engine jointly developed with Ford - making the 407 Coupe Australia's first ever diesel-powered performance sports coupe.
    http://www.drive.com.au/editorial/ar...?id=10491&vf=0

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! Pug4eva's Avatar
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    http://carsguide.news.com.au/news/st...E27286,00.html

    2500rpm at 150km/h!
    72G's for twin tubro diesel, hmm...
    So, the petrol version consumes approx 20% more than the diesel;

    Let's assume both fuels retail at the same price (130c); 7 thou should get you 5200ltrs petrol; or approx 50,000km.

    Not going to calculate cost of ownership over the first 3 years, but clearly that 7g difference gives the advantage to the petrol version; After that, in the 2nd hand market, the story will be different.

    For the new owner, it's only after 250,000km's that the true savings in fuel cost would show; but it again, this is not a utility vehicle, it's a coupe. AND we assumed same cost for both fuels.

    Peugeot ought to bring down the price for it's diesel, to about 10% less than the petrol's to make it a 'bargain'.

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  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! tassiediesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug4eva
    http://carsguide.news.com.au/news/st...E27286,00.html

    2500rpm at 150km/h!
    72G's for twin tubro diesel, hmm...
    So, the petrol version consumes approx 20% more than the diesel;

    Let's assume both fuels retail at the same price (130c); 7 thou should get you 5200ltrs petrol; or approx 50,000km.

    Not going to calculate cost of ownership over the first 3 years, but clearly that 7g difference gives the advantage to the petrol version; After that, in the 2nd hand market, the story will be different.

    For the new owner, it's only after 250,000km's that the true savings in fuel cost would show; but it again, this is not a utility vehicle, it's a coupe. AND we assumed same cost for both fuels.

    Peugeot ought to bring down the price for it's diesel, to about 10% less than the petrol's to make it a 'bargain'.
    It just won't sell. Too expensive and too long to get your money back. In order to get diesels sold in any number in Oz, manufactuers will have to work on the bottom line. $$$$s
    One of the biggest problems with the new generation of high performance, clean diesels is that they're very sophisticated and therefore costly to manufacture. Also, the degree of complexity turns off people who would usually be attracted to a diesel because of it's inherant reliability, low servicing costs and longevity. It's probably worth buying one in Europe with diesel being in most cases cheaper than petrol.
    The federal government needs to wake up and cut excise on diesel in order to make freight transport cheaper (I know certain sections of the trucking community already get tax relief) and to encourage private motorists to invest in a car that uses less of our precious oil.
    Said my bit so if only I can get pug604 to send me the gearbox parts that he owes me I may be able to get cruiserman's (yes, it still officially belongs to him!) 505 diesel on the road!
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  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! Trixie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackster
    stun∑ning ( P ) Pronunciation Key (stnng)
    adj.
    Causing or capable of causing emotional shock or loss of consciousness.
    Of a strikingly attractive appearance


    Personally in this case I find the first definition suits better...
    John

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  5. #5
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    To me the modern diesel is a more relaxing drive that the petrol engines anyway and it is nice to feel like you are saving money when you fill up regardless of whether it is right or wrong.
    regards Dennis Alderton.. 307HDI GS 1220

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug4eva
    Peugeot ought to bring down the price for it's diesel, to about 10% less than the petrol's to make it a 'bargain'.
    Even comparing a light pressure turbo to a turbodiesel, the turbo diesel still costs more to produce - you have more sophisicated fuel injection systems to deal with, sturdier construction, etc.

    Considering that Peugeot's petrol range is basically non turbo, the cost differential is even greater between petrol and diesel.

    Anyway, customers in a lot of places seem to be seduced by the economics of diesel, certainly in Europe it often makes financial sense. In Australia, I think a lot of people are seduced by the lower fuel consumption figures. Plus some also choose diesel on the basis of its driving characteristics.

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  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! slick's Avatar
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    i quite like it but I'd prefer a 406 coupe aestetically...
    btw this thread has been done twice before in the last few weeks
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  8. #8
    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalderton
    To me the modern diesel is a more relaxing drive that the petrol engines anyway and it is nice to feel like you are saving money when you fill up regardless of whether it is right or wrong.
    regards Dennis Alderton.. 307HDI GS 1220
    Depends on the size of the engine. Our 3.0L V6 Coupe is a lot more relaxing that our 2.0L GTi was, but this is only due to the noise level when cruising.

    As for saving money when you fill, well up here in Brissy diesel is the most expensive product - most of the time dearer than 98 - but I know for those in the country the situation is reversed.

    If only manufactures sold their diesel products at the same price of the petrol version - with the same equipment levels - then the total cost of ownership equation would favour diesels more. At the moment the required yearly ks are just to great to even reach the break even point.
    Cheers Simon
    >8-]

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  9. #9
    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slick
    i quite like it but I'd prefer a 406 coupe aestetically...
    Well I'm biased on this one.
    Cheers Simon
    >8-]

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by slick
    i quite like it but I'd prefer a 406 coupe aestetically...
    Likewise.

    Troy.

  11. #11
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    I'd be more worried about the 440Nm going through the front wheels, not to mention the extra weight of all the plumbing on the TT diesel and other parts in the already very long nose.

    And having seen the thing in the metal on Saturday, i think the 406 coupe looks a lot sleeker, more agile. The 407 looks good, but a bit bloated and i hate the long nose, even if it is for pedestrian safety.

  12. #12
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    Me three.

    I don't think a luxury coupe will sell too many diesel versions... not that they will sell too many 407 coupes anyway. Would make an interesting comparo with the new tri-turbo Merc diesel though.

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexMi16
    a bit bloated
    You'd be bloated as well if you had to carry an extra 250-300kgs
    Cheers Simon
    >8-]

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  14. #14
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    true, very true.

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnh875
    I don't think a luxury coupe will sell too many diesel versions... not that they will sell too many 407 coupes anyway. Would make an interesting comparo with the new tri-turbo Merc diesel though.
    It appears the PSA/Ford 2.7 V6 HDi engine has already been left behind by the likes of BMW and Merc with their latest diesel engines.
    Cheers Simon
    >8-]

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  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! lucin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kermit
    It appears the PSA/Ford 2.7 V6 HDi engine has already been left behind by the likes of BMW and Merc with their latest diesel engines.
    Mercedes Benzís history making diesel engines goes all the way back to 1935 when they rolled out the 260D, a diesel powered mid sized sedan making 45 horsepower with itís 2.5 liter inline-four diesel engine. Diesels were only invented 38 years before that, by Rudolph Diesel.

    Fast-forward 70 years later, Mercedes Benz showcased their concept SLK320 CDI Tri-Turbo Vision powered by a new 3.0 liter common-rail direct injection tri-turbo diesel V6 engine. The oil burner comes with 4 valves per cylinder. Whatís special about this concept engine is the usage of 3 turbochargers to minimize turbo lag and maximize performance.

    How does it work?

    The engine is driven by 2 small turbochargers and 1 large turbocharger. Each small turbocharger drives 1 bank of cylinders at both sides of the engine, and these are in turn are connected to 1 single large turbocharger positioned in the middle of the 2 banks of cylinders in the V6 engine. At low RPMs, all three turbochargers are at work, with most of the boost provided by the small turbochargers while the big turbocharger spins up. Later, a bypass is activated and air flows through the big turbocharger alone supplying a huge boost and massive amounts of torque.

    What does this give us? 286 horsepower and 628Nm of torque. The car goes from 0-100km/h in 5.3 seconds. How does this figure stand up to the SLK350 powered by a petrol engine? The SLK350 does it in 5.1 seconds. Only 0.2 seconds difference. Very impressive.

    The engine also makes 14 extra horsepower and 69Nm more torque than the BMW 3-liter inline-6 turbodiesel which won the diesel engine of the year award for 2005. However the BMW oil burner is a production engine but this Mercedes Benz is still a concept. Mercedes officials say it is still too expensive to mass-produce.

    =================

    now that sounds impressive for an oil burner
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  17. #17
    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucin
    The engine also makes 14 extra horsepower and 69Nm more torque than the BMW 3-liter inline-6 turbodiesel which won the diesel engine of the year award for 2005. However the BMW oil burner is a production engine but this Mercedes Benz is still a concept. Mercedes officials say it is still too expensive to mass-produce.
    I understand that the BM 3.0L oiler produces more horses (and torque, naturally) than their 3.0L petrol.
    Cheers Simon
    >8-]

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kermit
    I understand that the BM 3.0L oiler produces more horses (and torque, naturally) than their 3.0L petrol.
    Not quite, more torque (500Nm vs 300Nm) but less power (170kW vs 190kW). Personally, I think a lot of petrol/diesel comparisons are somewhat unfair, as the diesels basically always are equipped with a turbo, unlike the petrol equivalent.

    The petrol 3.0 engine is quite pleasant, having driven it in the 330i & 530i.

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  19. #19
    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    Not quite, more torque (500Nm vs 300Nm) but less power (170kW vs 190kW). Personally, I think a lot of petrol/diesel comparisons are somewhat unfair, as the diesels basically always are equipped with a turbo, unlike the petrol equivalent.

    The petrol 3.0 engine is quite pleasant, having driven it in the 330i & 530i.
    I understand BMW have two 3.0d engines and the multistage turbo version out performs its NA 3.0L petrol with 200kw and 560NM. Sure the petrol engine doesn't have a turbo, but then nobody would by a diesel with out a turbo - if you can actually still do that.

    Refer point 5. BMW Unveils Multi-Stage Turbocharging in the BMW 535d.:
    http://autoweb.drive.com.au/cms/A_101567/newsarticle.html
    Cheers Simon
    >8-]

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