Advice on a 205 GTi - Page 2
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  1. #26
    Member 2pug_nic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugjet
    hi guys,


    im not going to even attempt to get into any further discussion that might cause any brain damage for mr newbie 2pug_nic , nonetheless,
    good replies all round accompanied with the usual banter and (obviously) difference of opinion, which i respect.

    just to reply to nic's post, i wouldnt worry at all if the gti does not have up-to-date books. what is more important is a thorough inspection, completed by a person who knows what to look for - be it a fellow enthusiast or an auto club. here, a summary of the good, bad, and ugly should be tabulised so you know what to expect.

    that alpine white gti is a series 1 - non power steering, orange front indicators, 14 inch pepperpot wheels, drum rear brakes, early sliding ventilation switchgear (which i prefer), early rear spoiler/lights, 105bhp motronic engine, etc, etc...

    paint seems gleaming (and paint on 205gtis was always crap. many alpine white gtis ive seen look more like bangladeshi beige, nowadays, like assanka), and interior - even better. if the dash is not cracked, thats a bonus as most s1 dashes ive seen/heard of, have the usual cracks. normal.

    air-con in most (all, perhaps?) that i have seen/ heard of do not work. and even if they do... the air con is a p.o.s. so not even worth the mention. rolling your windows down will give you better relief, during a warm day!

    should get the gti rolling and accelarate/decelerate hard... see if there is visible smoke, then. even when parked, rev the titties off her. take it for a good drive... and when i mean a "good drive", thrash the pamela anderson's off her. listen for knocking in the suspension, and towards the front of the car.

    seats look great, but bad angle to really comment. doesnt seem to have the usual shagged side bolstering.

    its a non sunroof model ey? it should have minimal cracking on the upper and lower b pillars.

    belt squeeking? could just be moisture.

    steering for all non-powersteering gtis is extremely heavy, at park. but once rolling, provides awesome feedback. s3 power steering gtis are less so. heavy steering has always been a trait for 205gtis. for me its only a pain in the arse during park mode, but youll have the best biceps/guns in town!

    brakes for gtis are sufficient. i;d only upgrade if youre pushing for more kw.

    ashtray doesnt close? could be the locking mechanism, and can be replaced cheaply.

    tiny ding in the back? only one tiny ding??? hey consider yourself lucky and hey its 2nd hand and older than assanka's current girlfriend, and expect a few scratches/dings.

    scratches on the rims? easily, curbing. normal. if they bother you, get them restored for a few bucks.

    from your brief description, i think its a great price. seems to be well cared for, and not a neglected gti. 5.3k? if i were the seller, i'd actually ask for more! really!!

    Thanks for the excellent advice and knowledge. I will organise to get it checked professionally.


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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by dino
    regarding the actual 205 gti....I must disagree about the "old hatchaback" statement.....
    Yes, physically they might be old.....but again it depends on ones perspective....
    Ie. some people will say the 206 is starting to show its age....But so what, it doesn t make it any lesser a car....the human experience doesnt change that quickly....A fast car is fast now and will be in the near future, this applies to aesthetics (remeber we are not all good judges of it), handling etc etc....
    So a decade or so later....and we are suddenly all "modernists".....I disagree...
    the 205 gti with all its disapointments was/is a wonderfull feat of engineering that delivered driving pleasure with honesty not many can match......
    We are forced to sit back as companies build "heavy" and therefore more inneficient machines......
    Dino, unfortunately you don't seem to actually process what I'm saying.

    However great the 205 is, and of course it is fantastic, the ultimate reality is that it is still influenced by the factors of the second hand market. Forgetting all the philosophical thinking, the 205 is an old hatchback, in this market place no one is going to have the perspective that it is is new.

    Now of course this doesn't make it any lesser of a car, but as cars get older and more worn out they depreciate in value, of course 'until the point where they become so rare they're difficult to find.

    What you say technically about the 205 is very true, but you can't automatically equate this with maintaining a very high price in the market. I would think you're one of a very select few that would be prepared to pay $9000 for a 'S1' 205. For the average buyer in the market there is a lot newer and possibly faster machinery avaliable for that price.

    Now I know you're going to say, 'but the 205 has the raw edge handling, responsiveness etc' and you're right, it is does. BUT that doesn't automatically translate to higher prices for most buyers. I think you seriously need to stop your romantic attachment to the 205 distorting your view of the second hand car market.

    Also, just a friendly aside, you might want to consider the paragraph, it really helps convey your sentiments better.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugjet
    105bhp motronic engine, etc, etc...
    I'm quite possibly wrong, but I thought they had the LU2-Jetronic motor?

  4. #29
    SMP addict pugjet's Avatar
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    Default typing before thinking is my forte!

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis
    I'm quite possibly wrong, but I thought they had the LU2-Jetronic motor?
    hi louis, yes you are absolutely correct - 105bhp is jetronic equipped, and obviously the 122bhp is the motronic equipped engine.

    good pick up!
    current frogs :
    '94 s3 alpine 205GTi

    daily ding magnet: '98 1.8 16v citroen xsara


    previous frogs:

    88 S1 205GTi
    '95 306S16


    gimme corners. . .


  5. #30
    SMP addict pugjet's Avatar
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    Default have i seen this discussion on 205gti pricing only for the millionth time?!

    i think the 2nd hand used car market/market forces has minimal effect on cars as niche as the 205 gti, or other presumed "classic" or "cult" cars, if you may.

    i hear you argue that its an old hatchback, and newer hatchbacks have the same/better features and are better money. much of a classic or cult car's value is in the cachet of owning a particular badge or model (which may sound idiotic to some of you), and not merely the some of its parts. someone thats looking for a cheap run a bout e.g. corolla, pintara, pulsar, will generally not consider a 205 gti, let alone know how to spell "pwegot". and we can a agree a person looking for a 205gti is looking for a 205gti, and not a japbentobox or koreankimchi lunch box.

    people who purchase 205gtis dont grow on trees. some of them purchase on price/budget and others who purchase on condition are prepared to flash the credit card, hence the disparety in some pricing. e.g. al from melbourne purchases a s1 for $1200 in need of some TLC. winner of the sydney french car day 2 years back for best concours paid 22k-ish for his 205gti.


    have you seen prices for n3/early n5 306s of late? many are cheaper than s2/s3 205gtis which are obviously older. how come? which takes me back to its badge... the cachet of owning a 205 gti, and more imprtantly all the reasons why its still revered by enthusiasts everywhere.


    even though millions were produced, good examples are very few, which is certainly the case in oz. here in oz today, prices of 205gtis have remained relatively stagnent and seemed to have plateud somewhat, with some better examples fetching crazy money, and are increasingly sort after. hey its no e-type jag, but you get the idea. and thats forgetting all the philisophical banter and rose coloured glasses.

    i aprreciate your posts and understand your point of you.

    Last edited by pugjet; 19th October 2005 at 09:54 AM.
    current frogs :
    '94 s3 alpine 205GTi

    daily ding magnet: '98 1.8 16v citroen xsara


    previous frogs:

    88 S1 205GTi
    '95 306S16


    gimme corners. . .


  6. #31
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    I'm trying to get a bit of balance here.

    Naturally it's not just 'an old hatchback' and people looking for a Corolla/Pulsar won't be after one BUT you have to have to factor the old/hatchback/relatively common nature of the car into the pricing.

    We sit here all day talking about how wonderful Peugeots are and that's great, but we are a fairly select few in terms of the general population. People in the market for an older sporty European car aren't going to pay excessive prices if the competition is a lot cheaper. So of course there are few committed Peugeot people out there who will pay really high prices, but many of the potential buyers will have their eyes on a variety of other older sporty European cars. I never suggested people looking for a Corolla would consider a 205, but there is a market out there not absoutely set on a 205 but who would seriously consider one. I see a lot of relatively young girls driving 205's and I'm sure if the seller was asking sky high prices they would have gone elsewhere, e.g. maybe a Golf GTi.

    205's are rare, but you can still find them pretty easily. When it gets to the point where you have to seriously look carefully for one then the price is going to dramatically increase.

    Basically I just want to achieve a balance between the romanticism people hold for the 205 here, and the reality of the market. This is in no way to suggest they're worth the same as an old Corolla, but that they are still governed to a certain extent by the second hand market.

  7. #32
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    I've been following this thread with great interest, and hope to start checking out 205's in the very near future.
    I'm just torn as to where to look! I'll feel more confident buying off someone who knows and love's their car (but then, why would they sell), but what would my chances be like at dealerships, or privately through the trading post or somewhere like carsales ?

    I've come across a couple, but I'm still standoffish, fearing that my dream 205 is just around the corner ...

    Anyone here looking to offload a white gti ?


  8. #33
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    Hey hey hey! Hands off that $9500 series 3 I'm heading down to Melbourne this weekend to check it out. All organised. Looks beautiful doesn't she?
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  9. #34
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    If i could find a white one like that, i'll be so on top of it!

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordvader
    If i could find a white one like that, i'll be so on top of it!
    Personal tastes here, but I think the white can make a 205 look old and tacky, if I were looking for a special 205 it would have to be in miami blue... suits the 205 to a tee, but then again thats just me

  11. #36
    SMP addict pugjet's Avatar
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    Default so over it already, loui.

    still not convinced with your argument re hatchback and its predominance in the market. but you cetainly put a decent argument forward.

    ok. you write about a select few people in the market for an "older sporty euro" and a 205gti's "competition". i'd be interested to know which cars/models you think are direct competitors of the 205gti here in oz.

    your definition of exessive pricing i regard as good value. i would rather pay a price youd consider "inflated" and have everything check right, than spend the bare minimum and own an absolute dog. obviously, there are incidences when a buyer does purchase an absolute bargain, but how often is this the case?

    yah 205gtis are "rare" in the grand schem of things, and you can find then relatively easy, but good ones are even more rare. here in oz, there is always no more than half a dozen 205gtis nationwide advertised for sale on popular car sale websites. for me anyhow, a good one comes around a few times a year, which comes to my point that these few "enthusiasts are increasingly more savvy and buy on condition alone, regardless of series and age. just because a s1 is powered by "only" 105bhp engine doesnt make it less worthwhile. if anything it is more entertaing to drive than the later s3, which is what the 205gti is all about - the drive. and prospective buyers of this type of vehicle, i give more credit too.

    i appreciate you trying to find a balance between the romanticism people hold for the 205 here, and the reality of the market. and that is the point i am trying to convey to you, also. i think what you fail to comprehend is the passion for a particular badge or model or rarity or enthusiasm or history, which incidently is nine tenths of what makes a certain car a "classic" and gives it "cult" status. which is what the 205gti, is. this seperates it from the more common hatchbacks, not only for what it stands for, but is also seperated by the type of buyer who woudl consider such a vehicle.

    which brings us back to the point of pricing (mallet!).

    yes and i agree, that pricing for the 205gti is governed by market forces but i'd honestly think (and im certain youll agree) a car with such a bad reputation for build quality, french origins (think bad resale), age, and "nothing special hatchback layout" common as fish n chip shops, its price would be astronomically low. think R19 and errr fuegos or fwaggots - as it is lovingly referred to by lovers of this buck rogers coco channel 80s handbag throw back! (mistareno bait).

    in a sentence, if your argument was correct, prices for 205gti would be much much lower than they are, which for an enthusiast like me, would be nirvana!

    but hey hate to say it... it is not so.

    current frogs :
    '94 s3 alpine 205GTi

    daily ding magnet: '98 1.8 16v citroen xsara


    previous frogs:

    88 S1 205GTi
    '95 306S16


    gimme corners. . .


  12. #37
    SMP addict pugjet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes
    Personal tastes here, but I think the white can make a 205 look old and tacky, if I were looking for a special 205 it would have to be in miami blue... suits the 205 to a tee, but then again thats just me
    yeah like you can find a miami blue one in here in oz. ive only seen 3 miami blue 205gtis on the market in like 5 years! but hey its a shit hot colour.

    alpine white 205gti? there are few cars that look great in gleaming white and black bumpers. peeps that paint those bumpers white or colour code miss the point and should be arrested and a cavity search should be performed immediatly from mouthfrother mistareno! gtis look mgreat with black bumpers. the 205 gti has to be king! and thats not just because i own one in white .

    lurve the white, and yah there is a recent resurgance in white cars! now the local council car park even looks cool! gti 6's in white look crazy., too.
    current frogs :
    '94 s3 alpine 205GTi

    daily ding magnet: '98 1.8 16v citroen xsara


    previous frogs:

    88 S1 205GTi
    '95 306S16


    gimme corners. . .


  13. #38
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    If you like the look of the 205 and it is in 'good' condition, and have the money, I say buy it....

    I just purhased an 87 205 Gti and love it. My friends all had a bit of a giggle when I drove into the diveway and parked it next to my 98 club spec WRX (which i have driven twice since owning the pug and is for sale if anyone is intrested) and asking me why would you want to drive that 'thing' over yuor rexy??

    After a quick blat around a few swervs and curvs they then understand. With most responding with 'that corners better than the rex', what sort of car is it again!!!

    It rattles and it knocks and I am just getting to know the ins and outs of what needs doing and where the oil goes!! (stupid)
    I drive it everyday and drive it hard. For $3500 I payed for for the car, it has been the best fun for money i have ever spent.

    I the future I plan to make it a hillclimb/fast road demon, but at the moment I am still driving my little Pug with a big smile on my face...

  14. #39
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    205 GTi competition, I'd hate to say it, but most people who wouldn't know a thing about 205's would pick a MK1 Golf over a 205 GTi, and argueably it is held in a more revered status then that of the 205 GTi.

    As for other direct competion, why not look at the range from Suzuki
    Last edited by orestes; 21st October 2005 at 05:38 PM.

  15. #40
    Fellow Frogger! cam740's Avatar
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    how/where do you guys find these cheap 205gti's????

    i spent all arvo hackin thru carsales etc and the cheapest i could find was around 5k IIRC...

    is there www.cheappugs.com.au or something!?

  16. #41
    Fellow Frogger! crosspug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cam740
    how/where do you guys find these cheap 205gti's????

    i spent all arvo hackin thru carsales etc and the cheapest i could find was around 5k IIRC...

    is there www.cheappugs.com.au or something!?
    Don't know who owns it but here is a relatively cheap GTi

    Cheap GTi

    Jono
    1989 BX16Valve

    "Resting" 1983 505 STi

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by cam740
    how/where do you guys find these cheap 205gti's????

    i spent all arvo hackin thru carsales etc and the cheapest i could find was around 5k IIRC...

    is there www.cheappugs.com.au or something!?
    drive, car sales, trading post, etc... you just have to keep an eye out for them...

    I've seen quite a few early ones listed well under $5k... Whoops there that dirty word again that Dino is going to hate me for *ducks*

  18. #43
    Tadpole
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    Default White 205 maybe for sale.....

    Quote Originally Posted by lordvader
    I've been following this thread with great interest, and hope to start checking out 205's in the very near future.
    I'm just torn as to where to look! I'll feel more confident buying off someone who knows and love's their car (but then, why would they sell), but what would my chances be like at dealerships, or privately through the trading post or somewhere like carsales ?

    I've come across a couple, but I'm still standoffish, fearing that my dream 205 is just around the corner ...

    Anyone here looking to offload a white gti ?

    Hi Lordvader,
    Well I'm thinking about selling my 89 S2 Alpine White, and I'm in Melbourne. Done 180k, needs a few things done but basically sound I think... I love it but really need a bigger car.... Anyway contact me if you want to know more - [email protected]
    Cheers all!

  19. #44
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    Default Doh... I missed it

    Quote Originally Posted by cranklounge
    If you like the look of the 205 and it is in 'good' condition, and have the money, I say buy it....
    ...
    Well I farted around too long obviosly.
    It's been sold .
    Somebody else must be enjoying its dolcet tones.
    Ah well, I think I've got more of an idea about what I'm looking for now.

    Cheers,
    Nic

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