Exciting weekend - 504 wagon Petrol to Diesel conversion - Success!
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  1. #1
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Default Exciting weekend - 504 wagon Petrol to Diesel conversion - Success!

    Well, what a weekend it has been.

    Yesterday, 9:00am, I drove into the workshop, powered by petrol. The car - a 1983 Peugeot 504 Familiale, with 505 seats in the front and the back stripped out to fit a bed in. 2 litre square port carby fed pushrod XN motor.

    3 hours later I had removed the engine and gearbox from the wagon, and also the engine and gearbox from the incredibly rusty 1979 504 GLD donor car.

    Up to this point everything was going according to plan, but the fun had only just begun.

    504 2 litre motors and XD2 diesels use the same length gearbox input shaft, with the same diameter spigot. However, the splines on the clutch driven plates are different. The driven plates, however, are the same diameter.

    Furthermore, post 1980-ish (I think with the advent of the 505), the method of sealing the input shaft on the BA7/4 gearbox changed. Pre-change it used a threaded section on the input shaft constantly pulling oil back into the gearbox as it rotated, with a close fitting thrust bearing slide. Post-change, it was a conventional rubber seal. The bell housings are therefore not interchangeable, and therefore changing a bell housing also requires moving the input shaft to match. Unfortunately the only good driven plate that I had was an XN one, so I had to use an XN input shaft. However, the bell housing was of the older style, and the input shaft was of the later type. I had an old 504 gearbox lying around that had been run dry and had self destructed from the inside. I dismantled it and found that most of the damage was from the 3rd/4th gear synchros being destroyed, and that the input shaft bearing still spun freely and quietly. The bearing looked to be in good nick, with no damage to the case hardening on it. So I dismantled my original gearbox as well and put the old style input shaft in it (my gearbox was in excellent condition, no noise, perfect shifting, very tight, and also was the later one with the rubber O-ring seals on the selectors). After about 6 hours of mucking around with gearboxes, I eventually had a gearbox/bellhousing/input shaft/clutch combination that all bolted together and in theory should work.

    Sunday morning I started preparing the rest of the wagon to accept the diesel engine. I had to add a fuel return line, remove all of the anti-pollution gear, removed the front section of the engine bay from where the diesel radiator would sit, modify the exhaust system to match the diesel manifold, modify the battery holder to take a larger battery, extend a lot of wiring and change connectors to fit the essential wires to the engine - starter, fuel cutout solenoid, water temp, oil pressure - so that I could get home.

    About 11am saw me lowering the engine/gearbox into the car. After much jiggling, swearing and levering, it was sitting in the engine bay, with the rear gearbox mount located and the tailshaft connected.

    Another 5 or so hours of connecting wires, hoses, fitting radiator, air filter, vacuum resevoir, lift pump, return lines, reconnecting gear linkages, clutch, speedo, exhaust and assorted other bits and pieces, it was time to bleed the air from the system.

    No hassles there. Switched the glow plugs in for about 10 seconds, cranked it, and after about 20 seconds of cranking it burst into life. No problems, time for a test drive. After an idle speed adjustment, it was quite a civilised vehicle to drive.

    The drive home started out quite uneventfully. However after about 10 minutes at highway speeds (100 - 110), the oil pressure light came on. I immediately turned the engine off and coasted to a stop. Opened the bonnet, everything looked fine. Started it up again, no oil light. Touch the accelerator - oil pressure light again. This can't be good.

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    At idle, the oil pressure light is just flickering, so I figured it couldn't be very far below the threshold, so I drove the car very gingerly the rest of the way home.

    2 hours after I got home, I restarted the car, took it around the block with no oil pressure problems at all.

    The oil level is fine. I think that possibly the engine might have the wrong grade of oil in it, and perhaps when it gets hot it becomes too thin. I'm going to change the oil and filter tomorrow, and see if it makes any difference. It might also have been in there for quite some time, although it is still quite translucent.

    The only other thing I can think of that could be wrong is that the oil pump pressure relief valve may be stuck open, but that sounds unlikely because that is more likely to rectify itself at higher revs rather than flicker at idle and loss of pressure at any speeds above idle. Perhaps the oil filter is blocked? I'm not sure which side of the oil filter the pressure switch is picked off from.

    Does anyone know if the pressure relief valve on the XD2 diesel engine is accessable through the sump with the engine in-situ? It's dark outside now and I'm stuffed so I haven't had a look under it to see if it has the two piece sump like some XN motors.

    So, I'm after any ideas as to why my nice new old diesel engine is not behaving itself!

    The next step in the project is to fit a 3.7:1 sedan centre to the (currently 4.11:1) familiale differential.

    So far, it's taken about 16 man hours of work for the conversion, and that includes removing the engine and gearbox from the donor car, and mucking around with gearboxes for 6 hours.

    I drove out of the workshop today at 5:30pm powered by Diesel. The car was off the road for less than 36 hours.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu
    Well, what a weekend it has been.
    Yesterday, 9:00am, I drove into the workshop, powered by petrol.
    . . .
    I drove out of the workshop today at 5:30pm powered by Diesel. The car was off the road for less than 36 hours.

    Wow - what a feat - much admiration is offered!

    I am guessing that you had access to a hoist as well?

    Roland

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts 504-504-504's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu
    Well, what a weekend it has been.

    Yesterday, 9:00am, I drove into the workshop, powered by petrol. The car - a 1983 Peugeot 504 Familiale, with 505 seats in the front and the back stripped out to fit a bed in. 2 litre square port carby fed pushrod XN motor.
    <snip>
    I drove out of the workshop today at 5:30pm powered by Diesel. The car was off the road for less than 36 hours.
    Great work, definately not for the faint hearted.
    Well described, valuable information and experience there.
    Hope the oil pressure is no more than a dodgy sender.

    [/QUOTE]
    The next step in the project is to fit a 3.7:1 sedan centre to the (currently 4.11:1) familiale differential..[/QUOTE]

    I'm wanting to convert a 505 wagon to diesel.
    Diffs are available from US and Canada, last person I contacted wanted about US$600.00.
    Do you have anyone lined up to adapt the sedan diff center into the wagon diff? If so would they be interested in giving a discount for two conversions?
    I will also check with my local toolmaker to see if he will quote.

    Interesting that your '79 504 is rusty, my '79 diesel 504 would have to be the biggest rust heap of all the spare Pugs I have, the '69 1800 is pristine by comparison.

    Paul,
    504-504-504.
    Northern Outpost.

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts 504-504-504's Avatar
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    Default Oil pressure light.

    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu
    The drive home started out quite uneventfully. However after about 10 minutes at highway speeds (100 - 110), the oil pressure light came on. I immediately turned the engine off and coasted to a stop. Opened the bonnet, everything looked fine. Started it up again, no oil light. Touch the accelerator - oil pressure light again. This can't be good.

    At idle, the oil pressure light is just flickering, so I figured it couldn't be very far below the threshold, so I drove the car very gingerly the rest of the way home.

    2 hours after I got home, I restarted the car, took it around the block with no oil pressure problems at all.

    The oil level is fine. I think that possibly the engine might have the wrong grade of oil in it, and perhaps when it gets hot it becomes too thin. I'm going to change the oil and filter tomorrow, and see if it makes any difference. It might also have been in there for quite some time, although it is still quite translucent.

    at 100-110kph with a petrol wagon diff the motor would have been ticking over at a fair rate. Could the oil have overheated and lost viscosity?

    Paul,
    504-504-504,
    Northern Outpost.

  5. #5
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    I'm about to drive to work in this, about a 25km trip. I'll let everyone know how it goes this afternoon. I'll do an oil change and filter when I get home.

    I had no hoist, just a big jack. The only other piece of equipment that I REALLY would have liked but had to improvise was an engine tilter.
    504-504-504 - we shall talk about diffs when I work out what needs doing to fit the sedan centre to the wagon housing. I have been told that only one lip needs to be machined from the crownwheel, I can take that to work and do it myself hopefully.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

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    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    Scotty, congratulations mate, I thought you were looking a bit greasy and tentative on South Road there Yesterday arvo.

    Another win for demanufacturing.

    cheers but no beers

    ed ge

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    Dont throw the diesel front springs away. The springs for the diesel are considerably stronger. I put diesel springs into a petrol for about an hour and it lifted it 3 inches and it had a huge positive camber.

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    Years ago when I had a diesel 504 (with 240,000km up when I bought it), I experienced similar problems with the oil light coming on after I had put a tin of engine flush in with the oil. I then changed the oil, using a good quality high detergent diesel oil. The problem still continued sporadically, even after changing the oil pressure sender. I eventually changed the oil back to a less detergenty (!) oil and the problem subsided. I concluded that lots of slippery stuff in the oil and high mileage diesel engines didn't mix.
    Ben.
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    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Well, I've just come inside from the "workshop" (out on the street, under a tree, toolbox in the back seat).

    I drained the oil, removed the pressure switch, removed the filter. The oil had all drained away from all of these locations suspiciously fast. The oil in the drain pan was like water.

    I thought it might be the heat, as I had drained it whilst it was hot, just driven 25km home from work only minutes beforehand. So, i took a small portion of the oil, and put it in the freezer, about half an hour later it was chilled, and still incredibly thin.

    Problem found.

    New oil, new filter, and cleaned the switch, and the oil pressure light turns off instantly now, and stays off.

    Boodek: Although my engine has only recently been rebuilt, you are right, it seems that these motors are quite sensitive to the oil in them. Then again, it could just be that i was running rubbish.

    Bob D: I've still got the diesel body, and it won't be thrown out. The wagon, however, has 604 front end on it, including springs, and it rides and sits beautifully with the diesel engine, which is slightly heavier than the 604 V6.

    Edge: Yes, Sally and I were both looking a bit "tanned" Sunday afternoon. Normally I would have kept up with you along South Road no worries, but I was pussyfooting it with an oil pressure light looming on the dashboard.

    504-504-504 - your theory about overheating oil may be well on the mark. Also, my 1800cc 1969 504 is virtually rust free, whereas this '79 diesel had holes in it that you could put limbs through, in virtually every panel. Somewhere, Peugeot changed something and it went very, very wrong.

    Overall, I'm very happy with the conversion sofar. Tomorrow I will have a couple of exhaust leaks looked at professionally (adapting the diesel downpipe to the petrol system required some very ad-hoc modifications), and hopefully that will shut it up a bit. I will also fill it up all the way with fuel and over the next week will get some fuel consumption figures. I'm hoping for about 30mpg around town with the current diff, though I may be optomistic. The diesel diff is 3.7:1, about 10% taller than the current 4.11:1 of the Familiale. I expect the fuel consumption to vary accordingly, especially on highway trips.

    Only problem now is a minor electrical problem that showed it's face this arvo - no lights at all, stoplights, headlights, parkers, tail lights, reversing lights, all dead. I'll work on that tomorrow in daylight.

    If anyone needs me next weekend, I'll be playing with Differentials.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts 504-504-504's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Demannu]
    Problem found.

    New oil, new filter, and cleaned the switch, and the oil pressure light turns off instantly now, and stays off.

    Also, my 1800cc 1969 504 is virtually rust free, whereas this '79 diesel had holes in it that you could put limbs through, in virtually every panel. Somewhere, Peugeot changed something and it went very, very wrong.
    [End Quote]

    Was going to blame it on the shift in assembly to Leyland Australia but that was in '83 well after our '79 504 diesels were built.
    I prefer the pre 1975 504s. Have had no end of door and door handle problems with the '75 and on models. With the exception of the door intrusion bars most of the improvements such as dual circuit brakes can be be incorporated into the earlier models. My diesel 504s are all 78 and 79 models but so far doors on the one for road use are ok.

    [Quote]
    Only problem now is a minor electrical problem that showed it's face this arvo - no lights at all, stoplights, headlights, parkers, tail lights, reversing lights, all dead. I'll work on that tomorrow in daylight.[Quote]

    Except for the dead stop and reversing lights I would have suspected a loom connecter under/behind the steering wheel.
    If anyone needs me next weekend, I'll be playing with Differentials.
    Sounds very interesting please keep me posted.

    Paul.
    504-504-504,
    Northern Outpost.

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    Fellow Frogger! BigH's Avatar
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    Scott Did the same conversion 11 years ago, 2.3 diesel from what I think may have been a 504 French taxi......non independent rear end ...into a 78 504 wagon. The donor car already had a 3.7 diff but even with this in, the wagon still revved pretty hard on the hwy at 100 kph.
    One of our club members in Vic converts hypoid diffs to different ratios.Suggest you use the highest ratio (numerically lowest) that you can. 604 diffs are a good starting point. Hank.

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    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigH
    Suggest you use the highest ratio (numerically lowest) that you can. 604 diffs are a good starting point. Hank.
    Exactly what I had in mind, but what diffs are readily avaliable in australia that are taller than the 3.7:1 in the Diesel? I believe the 604s were about the same?

    Just did my first refuel, it returned 39mpg around town, fairly impressive I thought for the diff ratio that it has at the moment, and only a 4 speed box. The last time I filled it up on petrol it had returned 23mpg, so this car is using about 30% less fuel than the petrol 2 litre did. Having said that, petrol is about 8% more expensive than petrol at the moment, which works out somewhere around a 20% saving in fuel cost - I think.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu
    Exactly what I had in mind, but what diffs are readily avaliable in australia that are taller than the 3.7:1 in the Diesel? I believe the 604s were about the same?

    Just did my first refuel, it returned 39mpg around town, fairly impressive I thought for the diff ratio that it has at the moment, and only a 4 speed box. The last time I filled it up on petrol it had returned 23mpg, so this car is using about 30% less fuel than the petrol 2 litre did. Having said that, petrol is about 8% more expensive than petrol at the moment, which works out somewhere around a 20% saving in fuel cost - I think.

    late 604's are 3.58:1
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts 504-504-504's Avatar
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    Default diesel vs petrol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu
    <snip>Having said that, petrol is about 8% more expensive than petrol at the moment, which works out somewhere around a 20% saving in fuel cost - I think.
    Strange that diesel is more expensive than petrol. Here in Nth Qld it was always 5 to 10 cents per litre cheaper. Over the last year it crept up to 5 to 10 cents per litre more expensive. Currently it is back to 5 cents cheaper. Wonder what happened?
    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu
    <snip> but what diffs are readily avaliable in australia that are taller than the 3.7:1 in the Diesel? I believe the 604s were about the same?.
    I'm thinking along the lines of 504 diesel diff center used with 5 speed box with turbo on the diesel in my 505 wagon.Have the wagon, have the504 diesels, have the gearbox, have the turbo.
    Slow longterm project.
    First teach my lady how to drive a manual.

    Paul,
    504-504-504,
    Northern Outpost.

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    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    late 604's are 3.58:1
    How late? What do you think an '81 model would have? I'll have to check it out this weekend, but i've got the rear end from it lying around. You got the headlights, I believe.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

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    Quote Originally Posted by 504-504-504
    Strange that diesel is more expensive than petrol. Here in Nth Qld it was always 5 to 10 cents per litre cheaper. Over the last year it crept up to 5 to 10 cents per litre more expensive. Currently it is back to 5 cents cheaper. Wonder what happened?
    The change from crap high sulfur sludge to Euro IV fuels, with associated low sulfur levels. They had to upgrade the refineries, and now they're slugging us for it.

    Andrew
    2003 C3 Exclusive Panoramique auto

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts 504-504-504's Avatar
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    Default Diesel Price

    Quote Originally Posted by vanderaj
    The change from crap high sulfur sludge to Euro IV fuels, with associated low sulfur levels. They had to upgrade the refineries, and now they're slugging us for it.

    Andrew
    Thanks Andrew, being a biodieseler I haven't been keeping up with these things. So nice to be able to drive past all the service stations.

    Paul,
    504-504-504,
    Northern Outpost.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu
    How late? What do you think an '81 model would have? I'll have to check it out this weekend, but i've got the rear end from it lying around. You got the headlights, I believe.

    81 model should have a 3.58 diff

    yeah i think i did get the lights from that one thank you
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu
    Exactly what I had in mind, but what diffs are readily avaliable in australia that are taller than the 3.7:1 in the Diesel? I believe the 604s were about the same?

    Just did my first refuel, it returned 39mpg around town, fairly impressive I thought for the diff ratio that it has at the moment, and only a 4 speed box. The last time I filled it up on petrol it had returned 23mpg, so this car is using about 30% less fuel than the petrol 2 litre did. Having said that, petrol is about 8% more expensive than petrol at the moment, which works out somewhere around a 20% saving in fuel cost - I think.
    That's about what I get with a standard 504 GLD. Agree that it's impressive with that diff ratio as the XD2 much prefers low revs. At highway speeds mine approaches petrol economy.
    Stephen
    '03 P406 HDI
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    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Thanks Pugrambo, I'll try to track down my 604 diff (that could be a challenge) and see what ratio it is. I will have no hesitation ripping it to bits

    Sfrawley, I suspect that highway driving, as you suggest, economy will suffer with those revs. I am thinking that the 3.58:1 diff, with a 5 speed box, will probably give me the best economy possible.

    Mudguard, you sound like a good person to perhaps offer some fuel consumption figures for this sort of setup. Have you had yours on the highway much, and what sort of speeds do you travel at?

    504-504-504, I shall have to talk to you sometime about your biodiesel setup, and it's compatibility with the CAV Rotodiesel setup. I've heard rumours that it is quite destructive to the pump, but i'm keen to hear about some actual experience. As i'm sure edgedweller will attest to, I'm a big fan of proving the practical over theoretical.

    The car is actually quite civilised to drive. It is never going to be a race car, so the diesel suits the feel of the car quite well. The guy at the exhaust place (yes, I cheated, I hate working on exhausts) said it felt like driving a tractor with velour seats
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    you may want to check some of the 505 diesel diff ratios as well as i think some of them are higher

    3.58 with a 5spd will still get you around 3000rpm at around 100-110km/h

    or you may want to try different profile tyres to bring the revs down seeing as it's not a race car then some 80 profile tyres under the rear might be food for thought

    i seem to remember a 3.43 diff somewhere in the diesel line up
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  22. #22
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    you may want to check some of the 505 diesel diff ratios as well as i think some of them are higher

    3.58 with a 5spd will still get you around 3000rpm at around 100-110km/h

    or you may want to try different profile tyres to bring the revs down seeing as it's not a race car then some 80 profile tyres under the rear might be food for thought

    i seem to remember a 3.43 diff somewhere in the diesel line up
    Just had a read through some of the material I have here - apparently the 505 SRDT Automatics had a 3.077:1 ratio!!! That's much better!
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! sfrawley's Avatar
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    Feb 2001
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    Goolwa SA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu
    Just had a read through some of the material I have here - apparently the 505 SRDT Automatics had a 3.077:1 ratio!!! That's much better!
    Scott,

    Be aware that the diesel has a low-speed governor to avoid stalling the engine. As you slow down in 4th it will suddenly turn the fuel on and you will find yourself motoring unexpectedly along towards the red light or whatever. The technique with the diesel is to get on the clutch well before you would in a petrol car. A higher ratio diff will cause you to hit the governor at a higher speed than normal so the effect will be more pronounced. It's ok once you get used to it but can be a trap for young players.
    Stephen
    '03 P406 HDI
    '16 Renault Master

  24. #24
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Dec 2002
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    Menzies Creek
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfrawley
    Scott,

    Be aware that the diesel has a low-speed governor to avoid stalling the engine. As you slow down in 4th it will suddenly turn the fuel on and you will find yourself motoring unexpectedly along towards the red light or whatever. The technique with the diesel is to get on the clutch well before you would in a petrol car. A higher ratio diff will cause you to hit the governor at a higher speed than normal so the effect will be more pronounced. It's ok once you get used to it but can be a trap for young players.
    Thanks for that, it might be a handy bit of information to have if the car suddenly runs away for no reason. Sounds like a sort of pre-set cruise control .

    At the moment I can do about 35kms/h in 4th gear at idle, and then slowly, but comfortably pull away. I have had the car up to 140kms/h, but it's a hell of a lot of revs and I don't like it. I figure it was about 4500 rpm, which must be close to redline in the diesel.

    If I have to run around in 3rd gear at 50 kms/h with the taller diff, so be it. I want it to be as economical as possible at 110kms/h, but hopefully it can still actually keep itself moving at that speed, especially later with a fifth gear.

    I have got a 505 SRDT automatic diff, and will attempt a fitting into a spare wagon diff housing this weekend. I will report back as soon as I find out what's required to make it work.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  25. #25
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Dec 2002
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    Menzies Creek
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    Well, this weekend wasn't as sucessful as I had planned, because I ended up fitting a high-stalled heavy duty torque converter and slotted crossdrilled brake rotors to a friend's 505 GTi.

    Nonetheless, I have removed a 1983 505 SRDT Automatic differential (3.0769:1 ratio) from a crashed car, and also a complete 1981 504 Wagon rear axle assembly.

    I have dismantled both differentials, and done a stack of measuring.

    There is absolutely no reason why the crownwheel, pinion and diff centres are not 100% interchangeable. The splines are the same on the outputs, bearings have the same outside diameter, and the pinions are exactly the same length.

    Unfortunately, my workshop didn't include a deep 50mm socket or 50mm ring spanner, so i'll have to swap the pinions over at work tomorrow if I can find one there, otherwise I'll have to buy one. So as yet, no rear axle.

    Did the maths though, and after I change this diff with the new ratio, to get the same road speed at 100kms/h, it will be doing the same number of revs per minute as it currently is at 74kms/h.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

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