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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default 406 Ride

    Hi everybody!

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    I recently bought a 2001 406 and it's a fantastic car - miles ahead of anything else I saw. I just have a question about the ride. Often when I'm on uneven roads or going around corners, the car gets a fair bit of left-right wobble going. Is this normal with these cars? If one side of the car goes over a bump, I feel like I'm being shaken from side to side. I'm planning on sending it in for a wheel balance - any other suggestions?

    Thanks in advance

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Congratulations on your purchase. Is this your first pug? Also Congrats on joining AF. How many ks has the car done? Maybe the front shock needs replacing or there is a worn bush/suspension component on that corner. Has the car been in an accident and not been repaired properly. Best to get your local dealer or pug specialist to check it out.

    406s have great ride and handling, better then 407s IMO, though I'm biased.
    Cheers Simon
    >8-]

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  3. #3
    Gone Fishin' Haakon's Avatar
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    Thats interesting - I am chasing the cause of the same thing in my 406. I just had an alignment done, and will be getting them to recheck it on the weekend. It feels like it is toeing in a bit and feels like it is on tippy toes and a bit nervous and far too prone to side winds and road camber. A 406 should feel solid and planted on the road all the time I thought.... I also have dead engine mounts that will attended to soon, but I dont think they would affect the handling.

    If the alignment is OK, I will be getting under there and having a good hard look at control arm bushes, rack mount bushes and sway bar links.

  4. #4
    Tadpole
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    Yes, first pug. It's done 55,000 kms and I know the previous owner and they took good care of it - it has a full service history from a peugeot dealer. Is this the sort of thing that needs to go to a specialist dealer or will any suspension place do?

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super
    Yes, first pug. It's done 55,000 kms and I know the previous owner and they took good care of it - it has a full service history from a peugeot dealer. Is this the sort of thing that needs to go to a specialist dealer or will any suspension place do?
    Any qualified place you trust. Trust is more important than the Peugeot dealer's stamp.
    Cheers Simon
    >8-]

    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

    Polo Green '01 406 Coupe (5spd Man)
    Tuscany Green '00 206 GTi (Croaked!)

    My Flickr Photos

    206gti.net
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  6. #6
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon
    Thats interesting - I am chasing the cause of the same thing in my 406. I just had an alignment done, and will be getting them to recheck it on the weekend. It feels like it is toeing in a bit and feels like it is on tippy toes and a bit nervous and far too prone to side winds and road camber. A 406 should feel solid and planted on the road all the time I thought.... I also have dead engine mounts that will attended to soon, but I dont think they would affect the handling.

    If the alignment is OK, I will be getting under there and having a good hard look at control arm bushes, rack mount bushes and sway bar links.
    The Xantia tends to do that a little.... Mostly noticed at very low speeds where bumps rock the car side to side. It's because they have such big anti-roll bars .... Anti roll bars are just springs .... Springs with no shockers .... so you'll get the slight rocking motion. I think I'm the only one that's noticed it, no-one else that drives the cars ever mentioned it. Certainly it handles and drives perfectly and does NOT move like you mention The poogoes have those shocking bloody springs and shockers Maybe the 'shocker' on one side is dead

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  7. #7
    Tadpole
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    Quote Originally Posted by kermit
    Congratulations on your purchase. Is this your first pug? Also Congrats on joining AF. How many ks has the car done? Maybe the front shock needs replacing or there is a worn bush/suspension component on that corner. Has the car been in an accident and not been repaired properly. Best to get your local dealer or pug specialist to check it out.

    406s have great ride and handling, better then 407s IMO, though I'm biased.
    Sorry, reading your post again I think I may not have been clear enough. It's not just on one side of the car - any bump, on either side, will cause this rocking. Lucky I'm not prone to sea-sicknesss

  8. #8
    Gone Fishin' Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    The Xantia tends to do that a little.... Mostly noticed at very low speeds where bumps rock the car side to side. It's because they have such big anti-roll bars .... Anti roll bars are just springs .... Springs with no shockers .... so you'll get the slight rocking motion. I think I'm the only one that's noticed it, no-one else that drives the cars ever mentioned it. Certainly it handles and drives perfectly and does NOT move like you mention The poogoes have those shocking bloody springs and shockers Maybe the 'shocker' on one side is dead

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Thats a good point. It does have king kong size sway bars, like all Pugs. (I will ignore the standard Shane suspension comment ) Shocks are all good (Pugs shocks go forever) and there are no wayward clunks or rattles.

    Maybe I'm being a bit precious and its all fine. I might give it some toe out and see if it changes it at all.

  9. #9
    Tadpole
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    Sorry for not putting this in the first post (just remembered!), but sometimes when going slowly over bumps while turning (such as out of the driveway), I'll hear a creaking sound. I looked around on the net but couldn't find much about this - all I came up with is that it may be suspension related (or it may be the door seals!). Would this be caused by the same thing as my first problem?

    Buying a newish car is all well and good, but sometimes I wonder if it's worth all the associated paranoia

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super
    Sorry for not putting this in the first post (just remembered!), but sometimes when going slowly over bumps while turning (such as out of the driveway), I'll hear a creaking sound. I looked around on the net but couldn't find much about this - all I came up with is that it may be suspension related (or it may be the door seals!).
    Sounds like some supension components could do with a lube.
    Cheers Simon
    >8-]

    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

    Polo Green '01 406 Coupe (5spd Man)
    Tuscany Green '00 206 GTi (Croaked!)

    My Flickr Photos

    206gti.net
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kermit
    406s have great ride and handling, better then 407s IMO, .
    The 406 definitely appears to have a more supple ride but as far handling goes I think the 407 definitely has an advantage.

    The double-wishbone front suspension naturally resists understeer better than the old Strut front. Like most Peugeot front wheel drive models it's pretty amazing the kind of speed you can take into a corner before it begins to let go, and this is only pushed higher in the 407.

    So I think in an objective sense the 407 is the better handling car but subjectively some feel the 406 was slightly more communicative notably in its steering. The fact the 407 is rather heavy doesn't help unfortunately.

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    ..mmm this ruf stuff left right flick thing some of you describe sounds like bump steer to me. Try playing with 2psi more then 2psi less in the front tyres (compared to what you ussually run.) and let us know how that feels.
    Its just something to try. - Chris
    ... ptui!

  13. #13
    Tadpole
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHRI'S16
    ..mmm this ruf stuff left right flick thing some of you describe sounds like bump steer to me. Try playing with 2psi more then 2psi less in the front tyres (compared to what you ussually run.) and let us know how that feels.
    Its just something to try. - Chris
    I'll look into this - cheers

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louis
    The 406 definitely appears to have a more supple ride but as far handling goes I think the 407 definitely has an advantage.

    The double-wishbone front suspension naturally resists understeer better than the old Strut front. Like most Peugeot front wheel drive models it's pretty amazing the kind of speed you can take into a corner before it begins to let go, and this is only pushed higher in the 407.

    So I think in an objective sense the 407 is the better handling car but subjectively some feel the 406 was slightly more communicative notably in its steering. The fact the 407 is rather heavy doesn't help unfortunately.
    IMO the 407 is better only in the high speed stuff. The kind that would get you locked up for a bloody long time.
    Cheers Simon
    >8-]

    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

    Polo Green '01 406 Coupe (5spd Man)
    Tuscany Green '00 206 GTi (Croaked!)

    My Flickr Photos

    206gti.net
    peugeot-206gti
    peugeot-307
    peugeot-407
    peugeotclub.asn.au

  15. #15
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louis
    The double-wishbone front suspension naturally resists understeer better than the old Strut front. Like most Peugeot front wheel drive models it's pretty amazing the kind of speed you can take into a corner before it begins to let go, and this is only pushed higher in the 407.
    The front end setup in the 407 is beautiful - a very good system. You're right about its resistance to understeer, and it's very forgiving over mid corner bumps.

    I personally felt the rear end was the weaker part of the 407 equation - seems to move a bit too much for my liking on its rubber bushes.

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  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Yeah, double wishbone fronts really do amazing things for front wheel drive applications.

    The Alfa 156 is one of my favourite cars and having spent some time with one, it really does illustrate to you that double wishbone at the front can make things so neutral you almost forget it's front drive.

    Hondas, whilst not the most fun cars to drive are admittedly some of the best handling front drive Japanese cars and you really have to credit some of the success of the 'Type-R' line down to the handling, largely responsible for this is their front suspension.

    Naturally I was delighted to see Peugeot had decided to build the 407 platform around this suspension. In my opinion it's the best choice in this era of powerful and heavy front wheel drive cars. I only hope Peugeot put this to good use and release a hotter 407. The Coupe has the six speed manual so that would be a good start in the sedan. The current trend seems to be V6's enlarged to around 3.5~ putting out close to 300hp, I think the 407 is the pefect candidate for such an application.

    Having said that it also makes me appreciate how well Peugeot have been able to get their older strut front cars to handle.

    Unfortunately I don't have too much experience with any Peugeots running multi-link rear suspension so can't really comment.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super
    Sorry for not putting this in the first post (just remembered!), but sometimes when going slowly over bumps while turning (such as out of the driveway), I'll hear a creaking sound. I looked around on the net but couldn't find much about this - all I came up with is that it may be suspension related (or it may be the door seals!). Would this be caused by the same thing as my first problem?

    Buying a newish car is all well and good, but sometimes I wonder if it's worth all the associated paranoia
    I have a 406 and it handles very nicely. The bumps are no problem at all. Even on corners its very hard to upset it. So far have 288,000 km 2001 model.
    Until recently that was the case but the front and back wheel alignment can be adjusted. So I would suggest that you get the rear wheels aligned properly and that should cure the problem.
    In my case I wore out the rear link and put in a new one. when I did this I did not note correctly the position of the " off centre " bolt and the rear wheels had a slight tow in. This made the car very unsettled and on bumpy roads a tad dangerous.I have had the wheels aligned and the car is back to how it should be, perfect.
    I hope this helps

  18. #18
    Tadpole
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Gordon
    I have a 406 and it handles very nicely. The bumps are no problem at all. Even on corners its very hard to upset it. So far have 288,000 km 2001 model.
    Until recently that was the case but the front and back wheel alignment can be adjusted. So I would suggest that you get the rear wheels aligned properly and that should cure the problem.
    In my case I wore out the rear link and put in a new one. when I did this I did not note correctly the position of the " off centre " bolt and the rear wheels had a slight tow in. This made the car very unsettled and on bumpy roads a tad dangerous.I have had the wheels aligned and the car is back to how it should be, perfect.
    I hope this helps
    Cheers. I'm going to send it to a suspension place to get a balance and alignment and a decent check of the whole system today - hopefully it's a cheap fix!

  19. #19
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    I drove a 406 for 4000km in the UK and Europe and getting back to the Xantia, I was actually rather surprised how it felt - lighter on its feet, sharper turn-in, less roll, better resistance to mid-corner bumps. Not a huge difference mind you, but I have a definite preference for the Citroen's chassis (sorry, not the brakes though).

    Having recently driven a 407 2.2 auto in comparison with the Xantia I was disappointed by the nose-heavy feel; it does have good front-end geometry from an understeer-resistance and sharpness veiwpoint but just didn't feel as nicely balanced. More like a previous model Vectra or Saab 9-3 where the front feels glued moreso than the rear.
    John

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  20. #20
    Tadpole
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    Default 406 Ride

    Guys,

    Can we clarify 406 here .... 406 V6 or 406 4 cyl. ??

    Paul

  21. #21
    Tadpole
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    It's the 4 cylinder model. It just came back from a balance and alignment - the bloke said it needed to be done, but it wasn't too bad. But it turns out my problem is most likely the tyres. He said the wear is very uneven, most likely caused by being driven on uneven surfaces (the previous owners had a lot of gravel around their place), one of them is nearing illegal, and they'll need to be replaced within 5000kms. I've never been a good judge of tires - I thought they looked ok

    Anyway, cheers for all the suggestions. I'm not going to get a new set right away, but when I do I'll report back.

    You may now continue the 406 vs 407 debate

  22. #22
    Gone Fishin' Haakon's Avatar
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    Be picky when you get tyres. I am starting to think some of the loss of "sharpness" may be down the the Yokohamas I have on it, even though they are supposed to be a performance tyre. I will quiz my tyre shop when they check the alignment.

    But I have heard tyre are pretty critical to the feel of these things, so it may be safest to stick to Michelins. Continentals are meant to be a pretty good alternative though

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! Trixie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiggercl
    Guys,

    Can we clarify 406 here .... 406 V6 or 406 4 cyl. ??

    Paul
    My comments related to a 1.8 litre 406, on 195/60 15 Michelin's (from memory) and our Xantia is a 2.0i with 185/65 14's, also running Michelin's at the time of comparison.
    John

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  24. #24
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie
    I drove a 406 for 4000km in the UK and Europe and getting back to the Xantia, I was actually rather surprised how it felt - lighter on its feet, sharper turn-in, less roll, better resistance to mid-corner bumps. Not a huge difference mind you, but I have a definite preference for the Citroen's chassis (sorry, not the brakes though).

    Having recently driven a 407 2.2 auto in comparison with the Xantia I was disappointed by the nose-heavy feel; it does have good front-end geometry from an understeer-resistance and sharpness veiwpoint but just didn't feel as nicely balanced. More like a previous model Vectra or Saab 9-3 where the front feels glued moreso than the rear.
    Are you saying the 406 brakes were a lot better If you are I betcha your pedal still has the 'spring' in it

    [email protected] Xantia Brakes

    BTW: I wonder why your Xantia has 14" wheels, mine that is the same age has 15" 195/55 rubber

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! Trixie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Are you saying the 406 brakes were a lot better If you are I betcha your pedal still has the 'spring' in it

    [email protected] Xantia Brakes

    BTW: I wonder why your Xantia has 14" wheels, mine that is the same age has 15" 195/55 rubber

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Yeah mine still has *that* spring. Not so good as it gives that slightly mixed message. But regardless, its the progressiveness and ease of modulation of the 406 brakes I like - they are really good, plus easier to heel and toe (call me Fangio, but it does matter).

    Oh, mine's an SX and they had 14" wheels with attractive plastic covers.
    John

    2005 Renaultsport Clio 182 Cup - French Racing Blue
    2008 BMW 325i M-sport steptronic sedan - Alpineweiss
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