drove a 505 GTI today
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Thread: drove a 505 GTI today

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    Banned orestes's Avatar
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    Default drove a 505 GTI today

    I have to say it felt slower then my 205... I know it was also an automatic, but it didn't feel any quicker then my 205. I was expecting a lot more, and was kind of disapointed by it

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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes
    I have to say it felt slower then my 205... I know it was also an automatic, but it didn't feel any quicker then my 205. I was expecting a lot more, and was kind of disapointed by it
    It's taken you a while to find that out.
    My 205 Si is quicker than any rear wheel drive Peugeot that I've driven except possibly the V6 505 rally car.
    Graham

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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    It's taken you a while to find that out.
    My 205 Si is quicker than any rear wheel drive Peugeot that I've driven except possibly the V6 505 rally car.
    Graham
    I haven't had a 505 GTI to test drive until now... I'm just glad it was a family friends car and not mine. They're nice to cruise in and I regard them well as a comfortable limo, but performance wise i've now found there rather boring

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    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes
    I haven't had a 505 GTI to test drive until now... I'm just glad it was a family friends car and not mine. They're nice to cruise in and I regard them well as a comfortable limo, but performance wise i've now found there rather boring
    Agreed, the 505 GTI is no point to point racer.
    The 5 speed is a little better.
    Where it comes into its own is when out on a run and allowing the engine to spin up, (+4000 rpm).

    Also compare the weights of the 205 to the 505. The 505 is carrying a few extra pounds.

    Around town in the traffic light derby, I would take the 205.
    On the open road or the long commute I do, (170km/day) no contest, the 505 GTI.
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
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    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    It apples against oranges lad.

    ed ge

    go gamma

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamma
    Agreed, the 505 GTI is no point to point racer.
    The 5 speed is a little better.
    Where it comes into its own is when out on a run and allowing the engine to spin up, (+4000 rpm).

    Also compare the weights of the 205 to the 505. The 505 is carrying a few extra pounds.

    Around town in the traffic light derby, I would take the 205.
    On the open road or the long commute I do, (170km/day) no contest, the 505 GTI.
    no contest there, i agree for a long comute i'd much prefer to be siting in a nice comfortable 505, but in a traffic light derby in the city, where parking spaces are minimal i'd have a 205 any day of the week

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    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    lol yep welcome to the sad and sorry realization that a 505 is anything but fast..

    well a stock one maybe.

    im still convinced after looking at mnay pics of those Super Touries, that with a stipped interior, 200kw, plastic windows, some short stiff sharp suspesion, beavy sway bars, it might just be a racing machine..

    or i could just go by a 205..

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    At least you drove a GTI, spend my day thrashing around in a 505 with about 15kw less...

    You learn how to drive it 'quickly' though. They have remarkable cornering stability which means that you just don't slow down for corners and let the suspension and tyres do their thing (the lowest profile you'll find on a stock 505 is 60 on 15" wheels, and stock cars with 14"s running 185/80!). Even rutted, bumpy corners go by without issue. Maybe a little oversteer but usually a touch of understeer. There is a very satisfying feeling when you get a 505 going around a corner with most of its weight over the rear outside wheel .And naturally you'll win any race that involves speed humps

    Completely different animal to any FWD Peugeot, but still a great car in their own way.

    For city driving I find the 505 great, very tight turning circle and fantastic visability. It really isn't a large car, quite narrow compared to modern large sedans.
    Nick
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    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

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    Fellow Frogger!
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    This is definitely what I found going from my 309 to 504 then to my 405.

    Whilst the 504 was great especially being a manual Ti, after awhile I began to lust after the performance and handling of the modern FWD Peugeots.

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    I know what i'd rather have....

    Drove Dad's S2 Man 505 GTI tonight for the first time in ages and it's a gem....plenty of go and nice to drive!

    All this after 590,000k's!!


    Ben
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug_405_Mi16
    I know what i'd rather have....

    Drove Dad's S2 Man 505 GTI tonight for the first time in ages and it's a gem....plenty of go and nice to drive!

    All this after 590,000k's!!


    Ben

    ok then, i'll just take your Mi16 for free if you feel that way inclined

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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes
    I have to say it felt slower then my 205... I know it was also an automatic, but it didn't feel any quicker then my 205. I was expecting a lot more, and was kind of disapointed by it
    I can see what you mean - the 505 GTis I've driven don't exactly feel, erm, "GTi" like It's not just speed and acceleration, they're not particularly sporty in the suspension department - definately more of a cruiser.

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    I'd sell it to you for the right price ! The last time it was really used was May!

    Ben


    Quote Originally Posted by orestes
    ok then, i'll just take your Mi16 for free if you feel that way inclined
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug_405_Mi16
    I'd sell it to you for the right price ! The last time it was really used was May!

    Ben
    $5, and some lint i founs in my pocket ?? i swear thats all i've got
    Last edited by orestes; 12th October 2005 at 11:00 PM.

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    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    I think you guys have overlooked the meaning of the term GTi. Grand Touring, since the 50s, has always meant the most luxurious model in a car's range. Then, VW added the "i" for injection on it's famed Golf GTi hot hatch, and since then, it's been all aboard the Tangent Train!

    The 505 GTi was the highest luxury level avaliable at the time, with the exception of the GTi Executive, still nonetheless a GTi.

    The automatic and manual 505 GTi's are two very different cars. The ZF3HP22 automatic transmission was originally designed to be behind torquey, 3 litres plus 6 cylinder motors. So when stuck behind a 2.2 litre 4 pot, it sapped a lot of power just to operate.

    The 5 speeds, on the other hand, are very "peppy", with good low down torque making them very easy and rewarding to drive. My stocko 505 GTi S2 5 speed with 535,000 kms on the clock is only marginally slower to 100kms/h than my mildly worked 405 Mi16, and that's only if you rev the bejeezus out of the Mi16 and dump the clutch at 5000 rpm.

    On a cruise which several AF members attended last year (I think it was last year, could have been early this year), there were a couple of 505 GTi's there, both manual and automatic, and through the hills we were staying right behind, even pushing through the hills, the 205 GTis, 206 GTis, 306s and even 206 GTi180s. Though front wheel drive eliminates a lot of weight and rotating mass from a drivetrain, there is no substitute for having different wheels driving to those that are steering.

    If you had two cars of the same weight, weight distribution and power at the wheels figures, but one was FWD and one was RWD, the RWD would always win every competition hands down.

    And without a doubt, the 505 GTi is one of the most sure footed, confidence inspiring chassis Peugeot has ever created. A few extra horsies and watch the "hot hatches" disappear in the dust.
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    Scotty

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    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu
    I think you guys have overlooked the meaning of the term GTi. Grand Touring, since the 50s, has always meant the most luxurious model in a car's range. Then, VW added the "i" for injection on it's famed Golf GTi hot hatch, and since then, it's been all aboard the Tangent Train!

    The 505 GTi was the highest luxury level avaliable at the time, with the exception of the GTi Executive, still nonetheless a GTi.

    The automatic and manual 505 GTi's are two very different cars. The ZF3HP22 automatic transmission was originally designed to be behind torquey, 3 litres plus 6 cylinder motors. So when stuck behind a 2.2 litre 4 pot, it sapped a lot of power just to operate.

    The 5 speeds, on the other hand, are very "peppy", with good low down torque making them very easy and rewarding to drive. My stocko 505 GTi S2 5 speed with 535,000 kms on the clock is only marginally slower to 100kms/h than my mildly worked 405 Mi16, and that's only if you rev the bejeezus out of the Mi16 and dump the clutch at 5000 rpm.

    On a cruise which several AF members attended last year (I think it was last year, could have been early this year), there were a couple of 505 GTi's there, both manual and automatic, and through the hills we were staying right behind, even pushing through the hills, the 205 GTis, 206 GTis, 306s and even 206 GTi180s. Though front wheel drive eliminates a lot of weight and rotating mass from a drivetrain, there is no substitute for having different wheels driving to those that are steering.

    If you had two cars of the same weight, weight distribution and power at the wheels figures, but one was FWD and one was RWD, the RWD would always win every competition hands down.

    And without a doubt, the 505 GTi is one of the most sure footed, confidence inspiring chassis Peugeot has ever created. A few extra horsies and watch the "hot hatches" disappear in the dust.

    Agree with most things except the low down torque, below 3000 my Series one has nothing (and it goes better than most, some cars are absolute dogs) and the same goes for all the cars I have driven including STis.The one exception was my megasquirt modified car which pulled down to 2000 (and revved to 7300!), this setup is now on my 205 GTi.
    My current 505 GTi is just transport, it runs smoothly and gets good economy.
    Graham

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    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    Agree with most things except the low down torque, below 3000 my Series one has nothing (and it goes better than most, some cars are absolute dogs) and the same goes for all the cars I have driven including STis.The one exception was my megasquirt modified car which pulled down to 2000 (and revved to 7300!), this setup is now on my 205 GTi.
    My current 505 GTi is just transport, it runs smoothly and gets good economy.
    Graham
    Must be something (else) wrong with mine then Graham. It pulls like a train from about 1200 RPM up till about 4000, then it becomes painfully asthmatic. Perhaps my camshaft is out a tooth. It also gets about 28mpg around town, unusual for a 505, especially the way I drive it sometimes.

    Hence, I'm not looking forward to V6 Turbo fuel consumption, but fun has it's price.
    Scotty

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    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu
    Must be something (else) wrong with mine then Graham. It pulls like a train from about 1200 RPM up till about 4000, then it becomes painfully asthmatic. Perhaps my camshaft is out a tooth. It also gets about 28mpg around town, unusual for a 505, especially the way I drive it sometimes.

    Hence, I'm not looking forward to V6 Turbo fuel consumption, but fun has it's price.
    Very interesting, the ZDJ motors are generally lacking in torque and also in top end but pretty strong between 3500 and 5000.
    The GTis will rev to a bit over 6000 normally with Stis struggling to get to 5500.
    That said I drove an STi once which would rev to over 6000 and it went really well!
    My GTi gets 10 litre per 100 consistantly and not much worse when towing tandem trailers with cars on.
    All of the Stis I've had have had dreadful economy.
    Graham
    Last edited by GRAHAM WALLIS; 13th October 2005 at 12:40 PM.

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    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    Very interesting, the ZDJ motors are generally lacking in torque and also in top end but pretty strong between 3500 and 5000.
    The GTis will rev to a bit over 6000 normally with Stis struggling to get to 5500.
    That said I drove an STi once which would rev to over 6000 and it went really well!
    My GTi gets 10 litre per 100 consistantly and not much worse when tailing tandem trailers with cars on.
    All of the Stis I've had have had dreadful economy.
    Graham
    My GTi is getting long in the tooth, and is down on compression on at least 2 cylinders (less than 80 psi dry). Idles rough. Doesn't rev. Pulls like a train. Doesn't ping either, even with about 14 degrees advance at idle and running normal ULP. Blows lots of smoke above 4000rpm, but doesn't pull past that.

    Although I've never owned an STi, I've always heard that they were more economical than the GTis. It seems, however, that the STis have to be set up perfectly, and are very temperamental if everything is not spot on.

    I'm hoping to make the December PCCV meeting, If you're there you can take it for a spin and see what i mean (if it's still going then).

    One thing I can say for the GTi is that it keeps on keeping on. In the last 4 years since I bought it, I've destroyed 2 Mi16s, 1 505 SR, 1 Ford Laser, had my 504 defected. The GTi has had a power steering leak and a flat battery in that time. It's done about 50,000kms since I've had it, and all I've done to it is oil changes. It just won't die. 535,000kms on the clock and still counting! Full service history, never had the head off.

    King of the Lions.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu
    My GTi is getting long in the tooth, and is down on compression on at least 2 cylinders (less than 80 psi dry). Idles rough. Doesn't rev. Pulls like a train. Doesn't ping either, even with about 14 degrees advance at idle and running normal ULP. Blows lots of smoke above 4000rpm, but doesn't pull past that.

    Although I've never owned an STi, I've always heard that they were more economical than the GTis. It seems, however, that the STis have to be set up perfectly, and are very temperamental if everything is not spot on.

    I'm hoping to make the December PCCV meeting, If you're there you can take it for a spin and see what i mean (if it's still going then).

    One thing I can say for the GTi is that it keeps on keeping on. In the last 4 years since I bought it, I've destroyed 2 Mi16s, 1 505 SR, 1 Ford Laser, had my 504 defected. The GTi has had a power steering leak and a flat battery in that time. It's done about 50,000kms since I've had it, and all I've done to it is oil changes. It just won't die. 535,000kms on the clock and still counting! Full service history, never had the head off.

    King of the Lions.

    New injectors would make a difference to the K Jetronic STi.
    I know someone who has built a Mk1 Golf GTi rally car and new injectors were were essential to make it run properly.
    This is probably why my Megasquirt car (Gti) went so well, when tuning I was able to compensate for wear over the years.
    Graham

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