NGK Iridium Plug Question
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
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    Default NGK Iridium Plug Question

    Ok im at work so gotta keep it short
    car is running like a dog...keeps flatspotting and spluttering at 2500-3000rpm

    i just bought sum of those NGX Iridium plugs for 306 GTi6 motor cause my old ones are past there use by date.

    However these only have one point bit on them not 2 like the standard plugs.
    Im sure these are still good to use but just wanted to get others feedback.

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    Also what are they meant to be gapped just to be sure

    Thanks

    Alex
    PEUGEOT 306 GTi6 (1997-1999 HYBRID)
    105.4kw (141HP) ATW
    2:09 Phillip Island (Toyo Street Tyres)

    2001 YAMAHA YZF-R6
    119HP

    1993 MITSUBISHI 3000GT Twin Turbo
    300BHP
    STOCK-14.006 @97.4mph HEATHCOTE
    STOCK-1:15 CALDER Long Circuit (Stock Street Tyres + Stock Pads :banghead )
    (For Sale)

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
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    Anyone anyone anyone.....Beuller Beuller

    Im putting them in tonight after work and once that happens i cant return them if they are wrong so need to know asap.

    The dude at bursons said they are for the gti6 motor and they are gapped accordingly but i just want to double check

    They look like this



    Instead of the standards which look more like this
    PEUGEOT 306 GTi6 (1997-1999 HYBRID)
    105.4kw (141HP) ATW
    2:09 Phillip Island (Toyo Street Tyres)

    2001 YAMAHA YZF-R6
    119HP

    1993 MITSUBISHI 3000GT Twin Turbo
    300BHP
    STOCK-14.006 @97.4mph HEATHCOTE
    STOCK-1:15 CALDER Long Circuit (Stock Street Tyres + Stock Pads :banghead )
    (For Sale)

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    To the rev range our engines go to I doubt you will see any difference. I do on my race Kart and motorbikes but that's coz were talking 14K rpm ++ so its a little different.
    They work very well; but not any better than any other Uridim plug Ive used. I do prefer the DENSO's but thats just coz I like the green box they come in.
    As for your sputtering and kicking, just inside your throttle, before the butterfly; there is a small Temp probe (its looks like a little ball about 2mm in diamenter) it might be covered in crap so use carburator cleaner and whilst just reving your engine spray it in and clean that probe up. It helps the ECU get more accurate readings. - Chris
    ... ptui!

  4. #4
    SMP addict pugjet's Avatar
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    hi alex,


    yah ive got NGK iridiums in my s1 205gti and have been running them for the past 60000 kays and still seem to be goin strong, and get checked on a regular basis, and are in good condition, still.

    for 90 odd dollars for a set of 4 youd hope theyd continue to spark.

    in the end, itd probably work out to be better value, but i probably wont buy another set of these iridiums in the future. this is mainly based on up front cost, and i'd rather have the peace of mind of replacing a cheaper set more regularly.

    sorry , i dont know the gap.

    current frogs :
    '94 s3 alpine 205GTi

    daily ding magnet: '98 1.8 16v citroen xsara


    previous frogs:

    88 S1 205GTi
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    gimme corners. . .


  5. #5
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    We dyno tested the Denso's on 106 Rallye, 206 and 306 GTI Race and saw no difference from the Peugeot two point plugs which seem to work best, as long as you replace them every 10,000 km at the most. Pricewise it actually works out the same. Point of caution though: I have been told by people in the know, that if you get suistained pre-ignition for whatever reason, you may actually ruin your pistons with the Iridium plugs whereas with the stock plugs you just burn an exhaust valve. I heeded that warning because I do get pre-ignition at times and have burned exhaust valves four times on my 106 Rallye by keeping it at 8000 rpm's for 20 minutes or so. I think that the plugs are not as critical, but cleaning the part that Chris mentioned is. This part and the O2 sensor are often responsible when these engines feel not quite themselves.

    Thanos

  6. #6
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    Default Iridium plugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanos
    We dyno tested the Denso's on 106 Rallye, 206 and 306 GTI Race and saw no difference from the Peugeot two point plugs which seem to work best, as long as you replace them every 10,000 km at the most. Pricewise it actually works out the same. Point of caution though: I have been told by people in the know, that if you get suistained pre-ignition for whatever reason, you may actually ruin your pistons with the Iridium plugs whereas with the stock plugs you just burn an exhaust valve. I heeded that warning because I do get pre-ignition at times and have burned exhaust valves four times on my 106 Rallye by keeping it at 8000 rpm's for 20 minutes or so. I think that the plugs are not as critical, but cleaning the part that Chris mentioned is. This part and the O2 sensor are often responsible when these engines feel not quite themselves.

    Thanos
    Don't try to gap them. The tip will break. They are not meant to be gapped. They are supposed to be gapped correctly at the factory. I've been using those NGK's in my 406 V6 for over a year no problems.
    Steve V6 ..
    404,504Ti, 406SV.

  7. #7
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    i use the beru plugs that i get from reagans in hawthorn.
    they are multi pronged and dont need to be gapped,they are about 8 bucks each and make a very noticable difference to my gti.
    far cheaper than 90 bucks.
    most single pronged plugs do need to be gapped and altho its usually done at the factory ,its always a good practice to make sure they are right before installing them,
    the hainess says the electrode gap is 0.8mm .
    it also recomends checking the box for gap.
    hope this helps-BAZZ

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
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    As for your sputtering and kicking, just inside your throttle, before the butterfly; there is a small Temp probe (its looks like a little ball about 2mm in diamenter) it might be covered in crap so use carburator cleaner and whilst just reving your engine spray it in and clean that probe up. It helps the ECU get more accurate readings. - Chris
    thanks chris. Yeah i sprayed it with carby clean but couldnt feel the lil sensor. I know with my old 1.8XR i could feel the little probe and had carby cleaned that years ago. This one im not sure if i did it as throughly as i would have liked to.

    I put the NGKs in but the car is still stuttering between 2500-3000rpm...its sh1tting me up the wall. Ive been driving round the Mitsu GTO the past month and im used to 415nm at 2500rpm....this pug feels slow.... really honda vtec slow at low rpm. Ahhhhhhhhhh

    for 90 odd dollars for a set of 4 youd hope theyd continue to spark.
    Damn they retail for that much? I got mine for $55 at bursons.

    use the beru plugs that i get from reagans in hawthorn.
    I wanted to get the beru after reading that post about them a few months back
    I went there to regans 2 months ago and the other spare parts dude told me that they dont have Beru...that the stockist doesnt do them anymore or something like that.
    I should of asked Chris at Regan instead of the other dude that was there...chris knows his stuff

    Anyways thanks for the help guys...looks like im going to have to spray the crap out of my throttle body inlet tommorow after work.
    PEUGEOT 306 GTi6 (1997-1999 HYBRID)
    105.4kw (141HP) ATW
    2:09 Phillip Island (Toyo Street Tyres)

    2001 YAMAHA YZF-R6
    119HP

    1993 MITSUBISHI 3000GT Twin Turbo
    300BHP
    STOCK-14.006 @97.4mph HEATHCOTE
    STOCK-1:15 CALDER Long Circuit (Stock Street Tyres + Stock Pads :banghead )
    (For Sale)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRCPUG
    thanks chris. Yeah i sprayed it with carby clean but couldnt feel the lil sensor. I know with my old 1.8XR i could feel the little probe and had carby cleaned that years ago. This one im not sure if i did it as throughly as i would have liked to.

    I put the NGKs in but the car is still stuttering between 2500-3000rpm...its sh1tting me up the wall. Ive been driving round the Mitsu GTO the past month and im used to 415nm at 2500rpm....this pug feels slow.... really honda vtec slow at low rpm. Ahhhhhhhhhh



    Damn they retail for that much? I got mine for $55 at bursons.



    I wanted to get the beru after reading that post about them a few months back
    I went there to regans 2 months ago and the other spare parts dude told me that they dont have Beru...that the stockist doesnt do them anymore or something like that.
    I should of asked Chris at Regan instead of the other dude that was there...chris knows his stuff

    Anyways thanks for the help guys...looks like im going to have to spray the crap out of my throttle body inlet tommorow after work.

    If the problem does not go away after spraying, find someone with the same car and swap map sensors. If that takes care of it you just buy a new one. I have found that most of these problems are sensor related and the diagnostic computer does not pick them up most times.

    Thanos

    Thanos

  10. #10
    Gone Fishin' Haakon's Avatar
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    I have been running the Valeo two pronged plugs in my 406 (essentially the same motor as a GTi6 I think) and they are fine. $6.50 a pop. Perfectly acceptable performance.

    Handbook reckons they are good for 60K km, but 20K km in I reckon they are due for a look at least....

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon
    I have been running the Valeo two pronged plugs in my 406 (essentially the same motor as a GTi6 I think) and they are fine. $6.50 a pop. Perfectly acceptable performance.

    Handbook reckons they are good for 60K km, but 20K km in I reckon they are due for a look at least....
    They ARE very good and exactly the same as the Peugeot units. The 60K is a pipedream though. At 10K they get perceptively weaker (the gtech easily picks it up) at 20K you really feel the difference if you replace them. Cheap enough to do and you get better mileage AND performance.

    Thanos

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
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    If the problem does not go away after spraying, find someone with the same car and swap map sensors. If that takes care of it you just buy a new one. I have found that most of these problems are sensor related and the diagnostic computer does not pick them up most times.
    thanks mate
    Is it a hard/ time consuming to swap the sensors? I might pinch my brothers from his Gti.

    Point of caution though: I have been told by people in the know, that if you get suistained pre-ignition for whatever reason, you may actually ruin your pistons with the Iridium plugs whereas with the stock plugs you just burn an exhaust valve. I heeded that warning because I do get pre-ignition at times and have burned exhaust valves four times on my 106 Rallye by keeping it at 8000 rpm's for 20 minutes or so. I think that the plugs are not as critical, but cleaning the part that Chris mentioned is. This part and the O2 sensor are often responsible when these engines feel not quite themselves.
    Is the preignition just advancing the timing? Or will it happen on a standard motor?

    8000rpm eh? this 106 of yours sounds very nice indeed. What have you done to it?
    PEUGEOT 306 GTi6 (1997-1999 HYBRID)
    105.4kw (141HP) ATW
    2:09 Phillip Island (Toyo Street Tyres)

    2001 YAMAHA YZF-R6
    119HP

    1993 MITSUBISHI 3000GT Twin Turbo
    300BHP
    STOCK-14.006 @97.4mph HEATHCOTE
    STOCK-1:15 CALDER Long Circuit (Stock Street Tyres + Stock Pads :banghead )
    (For Sale)

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
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    They ARE very good and exactly the same as the Peugeot units. The 60K is a pipedream though. At 10K they get perceptively weaker (the gtech easily picks it up) at 20K you really feel the difference if you replace them. Cheap enough to do and you get better mileage AND performance.
    Really the plugs must be changed that regularly? Oh deah mine have been sitting in there for like 30,000
    Stupid fatherly advice...remind me not to listen to him anymore lol
    PEUGEOT 306 GTi6 (1997-1999 HYBRID)
    105.4kw (141HP) ATW
    2:09 Phillip Island (Toyo Street Tyres)

    2001 YAMAHA YZF-R6
    119HP

    1993 MITSUBISHI 3000GT Twin Turbo
    300BHP
    STOCK-14.006 @97.4mph HEATHCOTE
    STOCK-1:15 CALDER Long Circuit (Stock Street Tyres + Stock Pads :banghead )
    (For Sale)

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRCPUG
    thanks mate
    Is it a hard/ time consuming to swap the sensors? I might pinch my brothers from his Gti.
    My mechanic did it in a few minutes, very easy to do on the 106, I think it is the same on the 306


    Quote Originally Posted by WRCPUG
    Is the preignition just advancing the timing? Or will it happen on a standard motor?
    Pre-ignition can be caused by too much advance. Higher octane (we have BP 100 RON in Greece) takes care of that, but if the petrol station has mixed in any of the 95 RON to pocket the profit you can end up with a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by WRCPUG

    8000rpm eh? this 106 of yours sounds very nice indeed. What have you done to it?
    Look at my engine set-up post in Fat Bastard's quad throttle bodies thread. I have done everything but the QTB's because torque steer is massive with them and you cannot drive the specific car as fast. One of my friends got them on his 106 (197 hp, mine is 168) and my car is a lot quicker in the track. Another guy here has a 106 with a Xanthia engine and a turbo, 300+ hp, the car is useless, just a stoplight racer.
    Last edited by Thanos; 4th October 2005 at 10:13 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRCPUG
    Really the plugs must be changed that regularly? Oh deah mine have been sitting in there for like 30,000
    Stupid fatherly advice...remind me not to listen to him anymore lol

    At 30,000 km they will work well enough to satisfy the average driver. Given all the money you've spent to bring your car to the state that it is in, coughing up another hundred bucks every 60,000 km is no big deal. Changing my plugs costs me $30 so I do it every 10,000 km.

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
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    At 30,000 km they will work well enough to satisfy the average driver. Given all the money you've spent to bring your car to the state that it is in, coughing up another hundred bucks every 60,000 km is no big deal. Changing my plugs costs me $30 so I do it every 10,000 km.
    Yeh $100 each few years isnt bad but i didnt realise plugs had to be changed so often. Thanks ill try swap map sensors with my brothers car when i get a chance.
    Could a faulty oxygen sensor be the problem also?

    Hey i searched fat bastards throttle body thread but cannot find any posts concerning your setup. Would love to see some pics though.
    PEUGEOT 306 GTi6 (1997-1999 HYBRID)
    105.4kw (141HP) ATW
    2:09 Phillip Island (Toyo Street Tyres)

    2001 YAMAHA YZF-R6
    119HP

    1993 MITSUBISHI 3000GT Twin Turbo
    300BHP
    STOCK-14.006 @97.4mph HEATHCOTE
    STOCK-1:15 CALDER Long Circuit (Stock Street Tyres + Stock Pads :banghead )
    (For Sale)

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRCPUG
    Yeh $100 each few years isnt bad but i didnt realise plugs had to be changed so often. Thanks ill try swap map sensors with my brothers car when i get a chance.
    Could a faulty oxygen sensor be the problem also?
    Yes, it could be the O2 sensor. Try flooring it in first or second right after you start it; if it hesitates as if it is out of fuel, then gets better as it warms up, I would get the O2 sensor checked.

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
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    Yes it seems to do as you described. Months ago when the car was cold it would stutter as if it was out of fuel in 1st and 2nd but would clear up after 30 secs or so of driving.

    Now it seems to do it all the time but mostly in 1st and 2nd under light and heavy throttle.

    It sometimes idles rough as well..like it will idle fine for a few mins then it will sound like a rotary engine and sound like it is about to cut out.

    It reminds me alot of fuel cut though....stutters and splurts then bang 3200rpm its like the limiter is removed and it comes back to life again.

    thanks again for your help
    PEUGEOT 306 GTi6 (1997-1999 HYBRID)
    105.4kw (141HP) ATW
    2:09 Phillip Island (Toyo Street Tyres)

    2001 YAMAHA YZF-R6
    119HP

    1993 MITSUBISHI 3000GT Twin Turbo
    300BHP
    STOCK-14.006 @97.4mph HEATHCOTE
    STOCK-1:15 CALDER Long Circuit (Stock Street Tyres + Stock Pads :banghead )
    (For Sale)

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRCPUG
    Yes it seems to do as you described. Months ago when the car was cold it would stutter as if it was out of fuel in 1st and 2nd but would clear up after 30 secs or so of driving.

    Now it seems to do it all the time but mostly in 1st and 2nd under light and heavy throttle.

    It sometimes idles rough as well..like it will idle fine for a few mins then it will sound like a rotary engine and sound like it is about to cut out.

    It reminds me alot of fuel cut though....stutters and splurts then bang 3200rpm its like the limiter is removed and it comes back to life again.

    thanks again for your help

    Replace the O2 sensor, sounds like you need one, even if it is not the only problem. The Valeo unit is around $130 in Europe, takes under an hour to change, and it would cover you fully.

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon
    I have been running the Valeo two pronged plugs in my 406 (essentially the same motor as a GTi6 I think) and they are fine.
    Haakon the 2.0l GTi6 engine isn't the same as the 2.0L 406 engine. However your 2.0L is the same as the 206GTi and 307. The 180 also uses it but with some differences over the 138 version.
    Cheers Simon
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  21. #21
    Gone Fishin' Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kermit
    Haakon the 2.0l GTi6 engine isn't the same as the 2.0L 406 engine. However your 2.0L is the same as the 206GTi and 307. The 180 also uses it but with some differences over the 138 version.
    You sure? I remember looking at a GTi6 at the last FCD and it looked identical to mine. I thought the Phase 2 406/206/307 used a newer motor.

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon
    You sure? I remember looking at a GTi6 at the last FCD and it looked identical to mine. I thought the Phase 2 406/206/307 used a newer motor.
    As I'm only new to the 406 - having been a 138 owner previously - I'm not 100% sure on what the designation of the 2.0L engine in the 406 was back in D8 form though I think it is EW10J. The EW10J is used in the D9 406, 307 and 206GTi (138). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peugeot_406 I can't imagine the D8 having an XU based engine and then changing to the EW as the engineering effort wouldn't be worth it.

    Some old news about the XU and EW engines:
    http://www.autointell-news.com/news-2000/May-2000/May-30-00-p6.htm
    Cheers Simon
    >8-]

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  23. #23
    Gone Fishin' Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kermit
    I can't imagine the D8 having an XU based engine and then changing to the EW as the engineering effort wouldn't be worth it.

    ]
    Thats exactly what they did - I have the XUJ4R10 (I think thats right ) motor in my Pug.

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon
    Thats exactly what they did - I have the XUJ4R10 (I think thats right ) motor in my Pug.
    Correct you are. Guess you learn something new everyday, even on AF. Actually just got off the phone to my Pug dealer - rang to see if my new windscreen had arrived - and he confirmed D8s have XU engines while D9s have EW.
    Cheers Simon
    >8-]

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