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Thread: 505 turbo pics

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! 505 to the max's Avatar
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    Default 505 turbo pics

    Finally done for those who wanted a look. A bit messy at the moment but I'll tidy up the wiring when it gets rebuilt, bigger turbo, more boost, bigger throttle body... the list goes on and on and on and on.
    Chris.

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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 505 turbo pics-chris-001small.jpg   505 turbo pics-chris-002small.jpg  

  2. #2
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 505 to the max
    Finally done for those who wanted a look. A bit messy at the moment but I'll tidy up the wiring when it gets rebuilt, bigger turbo, more boost, bigger throttle body... the list goes on and on and on and on.
    Chris.
    WHOOHOOOO!!!!!

    I love it! First thing that i noticed is that the fuel pressure regulator is disconnected - any reason for that? Couldn't handle the boost pressure?

    What sort of ignition and fuel management is it running (not standard, cos there's no AFM), and are they the standard injectors? If not, what rating are the current ones, and what duty cycle are they running at at max power?

    The intake manfold is GTi, but is the motor itself a GTi or STi motor, anything changed internally yet, is the camshaft standard?

    I REALLY want to go for a cruise over there and check this machine out some!

    Scott
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  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! 505 to the max's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu
    WHOOHOOOO!!!!!

    I love it! First thing that i noticed is that the fuel pressure regulator is disconnected - any reason for that? Couldn't handle the boost pressure?

    What sort of ignition and fuel management is it running (not standard, cos there's no AFM), and are they the standard injectors? If not, what rating are the current ones, and what duty cycle are they running at at max power?

    The intake manfold is GTi, but is the motor itself a GTi or STi motor, anything changed internally yet, is the camshaft standard?

    I REALLY want to go for a cruise over there and check this machine out some!

    Scott
    Standard fuel pressure regulator won't work with manifold pressure. It's got a Malpassi adjustable reg. which operates at 1.7:1 (every 1 psi increase in boost equates to a 1.7psi increase in fuel pressure). EMS 4424i stand alone ECU which runs on MAP sensor and TPS as well as oxygen sensor (has to be Bosch wide band RRP: $480! although it can be tuned with that in place and then removed which saved me from having to buy one).
    'Powerflow' injectors rated at 330cc/min or about 65hp per injector. Don't know about duty cycle because I didn't tune it. Standard 505GTi injectors are 174cc/min and ran out very, very quickly when it spooled up, hence the change to larger units. If I had to guess the duty cycle at WOT I'd say probably 60-70% as it runs very rich to aid the intercooler and higher than ideal CR (approx 9.5:1 from memory).
    Internals and cam standard for now, although it has a 2mm head gasket to lower the CR. If you need one let me know and I can organise for it to be water cut for you. Looking in to cam profiles; hoping for wider torque spread and more top end. Bigger turbo will definitely help with top end.
    The engine is out of an 85 GTi Exec.
    Chris.

  4. #4
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Looking good .... I hope you intend to make up some serious heat sheilds for that baby before she gets too hot under the bonnet

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    Fellow Frogger! 505 to the max's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Looking good .... I hope you intend to make up some serious heat sheilds for that baby before she gets too hot under the bonnet

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Why? It's been operating like this for nearly a year and has maintained a stable running temp from day 1. Heat is not a problem. I think an oil cooler would be a good idea which will be added soon, but aside from that it doesn't need anything done to keep it cool.
    Chris.

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    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 505 to the max
    Why? It's been operating like this for nearly a year and has maintained a stable running temp from day 1. Heat is not a problem. I think an oil cooler would be a good idea which will be added soon, but aside from that it doesn't need anything done to keep it cool.
    Chris.
    Oil cooler a definate yes. Is the turbo running water cooling also? I ask because S**b had lots of trouble with the first batch of 9000 turbos and no water cooling, after that all 87 on models were fitted with it.
    oil cooling in a turbo engine is a must obviously because of higher oil temps encountered with the turbo. Are you running synth oils too?
    You could also try Redline water wetter as I have tried it and it appears to be a produst that does what is claimed.
    How do you find that large bend in the intake pipe from the intercooler to the intake manifold? I'd be replumbing that in the future, less bends the better.
    All in all, a great job.
    What gearbox are you running behind all that?
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  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! 505 to the max's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HONG KONG PUGGY
    Oil cooler a definate yes. Is the turbo running water cooling also? I ask because S**b had lots of trouble with the first batch of 9000 turbos and no water cooling, after that all 87 on models were fitted with it.
    oil cooling in a turbo engine is a must obviously because of higher oil temps encountered with the turbo. Are you running synth oils too?
    You could also try Redline water wetter as I have tried it and it appears to be a produst that does what is claimed.
    How do you find that large bend in the intake pipe from the intercooler to the intake manifold? I'd be replumbing that in the future, less bends the better.
    All in all, a great job.
    What gearbox are you running behind all that?
    The IC plumbing was, believe it or not the shortest possible path it could have taken. With a new plenum and forward facing throttle body I can eliminate those bends and hopefully improve throttle response. With the current plenum it makes it difficult.
    I had two choices: the way it is now or run the IC to plenum pipe back across to the turbo side and give it a more direct path to the throttle body. I chose the first option because it meant less distance for the air to travel, which means (theoretically) less lag.
    It's a stock standard T25 which is oil and water cooled. Not running synthetic oil yet but will switch when it gets rebuilt.
    Any idea of how to go about getting an oil cooler fitted? STH hoses are not a problem (I work next door to a Pirtek outlet) but the 'adaptor' (correct terminology?) I'm guessing I'll need to get custom made? Would it mean a swap to a remote filter?
    BA7/5 with a plain old Valeo clutch. No probs with this level of torque.
    Chris.

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    I have seen oil cooler kits (just over an inch thick so it should fit between the block and existing filter and have enough space before hitting the RHS chassis rail), that bolt on where the oil filter attaches. You may need to have a two part centre screw made up, (to attach the oil interchange plate to the block, the old filter male threaded section screws into the plate).

    A cool looking set up.
    I was wondering ....... Do you need an intercooler.
    You could eliminate a lot of lag if you shortened up the plumbing by going over the top of the engine directly into the origional manifold.
    (This from someone who has only worked on slow, cold, tractor type diesels).
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    Your not going to put the cover back on the timing belt ?
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  10. #10
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Looking good .... I hope you intend to make up some serious heat sheilds for that baby before she gets too hot under the bonnet

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Hee, heee,

    I should have been more specific. Turbo's can glow near red hot, you have quite few hoses and wiring that look close the the turnbine itself ... Engine heat not being the issue rather, stuff near the turbine itself getting cremated (or even worse combusting due to the intense heat ).

    It's always hard to tell in photos, if you were looking under the bonnet in person everything always seems different ........

    seeya,
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  11. #11
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 505 to the max
    The IC plumbing was, believe it or not the shortest possible path it could have taken. With a new plenum and forward facing throttle body I can eliminate those bends and hopefully improve throttle response. With the current plenum it makes it difficult.
    I had two choices: the way it is now or run the IC to plenum pipe back across to the turbo side and give it a more direct path to the throttle body. I chose the first option because it meant less distance for the air to travel, which means (theoretically) less lag.
    It's a stock standard T25 which is oil and water cooled. Not running synthetic oil yet but will switch when it gets rebuilt.
    Any idea of how to go about getting an oil cooler fitted? STH hoses are not a problem (I work next door to a Pirtek outlet) but the 'adaptor' (correct terminology?) I'm guessing I'll need to get custom made? Would it mean a swap to a remote filter?
    BA7/5 with a plain old Valeo clutch. No probs with this level of torque.
    Chris.
    How much space do you have between the bonnet and top of the motor.

    How about an intercooler such as this ...



    Only problem is the car would no longer look like a sleeper as you'd need to fit a riceboy WRX lookalike scoop in the bonnet in order to get air flow. It would however remove all the twists 'n' turns from the inlet tract.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! 505 to the max's Avatar
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    There's enough clearance around the turbo for the closest parts (to the turbo) to be touch cool after a hard drive, including the brake booster.
    I've never been a fan of the top-mount, for the simple fact that they don't cool as efficiently. Less lag because of less plumbing, but also higher intake temps.
    To run the IC plumbing across the motor (as in perpendicular to the block) would have meant a sharp bend straight out of the intercooler in order to run the pipe back to the turbo side of the radiator (which is the hardest part to work around). Plus the best part of a metre extra pipework.
    I won't miss the timing belt cover. The belt has been replaced every time it's had the radiator out (three times in about 15 months), and doesn't get dusty or oily so I have faith in it's durability. Without the cover it can be changed i under an hour. With the cover? At least triple that. The looks are just a bi-product of 'mechanical economics' ie if it doesn't stop the car from going, it doesn't belong on the car.
    Oh, and as for the bonnet scoop option, I'll put it on my list of desirable items along with a blow off valve simulator (see also show off valve stimulator) , neons, coloured tyres, and a 38 piece 'Group A' bodykit signed by a local a V8 "supercar(?)" driver who recently mastered the spelling of his own name during his fourth attempt at year 5 English. Local Holden fans can't believe how smart their idol is....

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    lol well said..

    indeed does like nice.. forgot just how large realisticly those t25's realy are.. all good tho What sort of Turbine you planning on wacking under there?

    Apart from the hidious shape of the Plenum, is there anything realy restrictive about its design? Always thought they were a quite a bit over kill for the standard power those engines produced anyway, well to look at that is

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  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! 505 to the max's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie
    lol well said..

    indeed does like nice.. forgot just how large realisticly those t25's realy are.. all good tho What sort of Turbine you planning on wacking under there?

    Apart from the hidious shape of the Plenum, is there anything realy restrictive about its design? Always thought they were a quite a bit over kill for the standard power those engines produced anyway, well to look at that is
    I've never had the plenum off so I don't know if it's restricting flow or not(or had it flow tested for definite results). I'm looking at a GT25 turbo at the moment. A GT25 is rated at 320hp. Not too expensive at about $1300. They're the exact same dimensions externally (as a T25) but with a larger compressor wheel and most importantly a ball bearing core for maximum response.
    Also they're a bolt on job which saves me money. Although whatever I save I'll find an excuse to spend on something else. Maybe water injection...
    Chris.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 505 to the max
    Finally done for those who wanted a look. A bit messy at the moment but I'll tidy up the wiring when it gets rebuilt, bigger turbo, more boost, bigger throttle body... the list goes on and on and on and on.
    Chris.

    are you going to move the TB from where it is to the end of the plenum ?

    i have done this before to maje things fit or to work better
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    Fellow Frogger! 505 to the max's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    are you going to move the TB from where it is to the end of the plenum ?

    i have done this before to maje things fit or to work better
    When I get a bigger intercooler I'll get a new plenum made with the TB facing forward. All those ugly bends will be removed and I can increase the piping size to 2.75in all the way through.

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! 505 to the max's Avatar
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    I was thinking along the lines of the attached photo rather than a block mounted system. As I understand it, a cooler which simply sits on the inside of the filter (against the block) uses coolant to cool. I want to avoid this as I don't want the coolant going through both the turbo and a cooler. Coming into summer I'm hoping to develop it to the point where it's not so badly effected by ambient temps. On a hot day at the moment it runs well, but suffers a huge drop in torque.
    Bigger intercooler and water injection are my priorities once it's no longer driven daily.
    Has anyone experimented with this sort of thing?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 505 turbo pics-oil-cooler.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by 505 to the max
    I was thinking along the lines of the attached photo rather than a block mounted system. As I understand it, a cooler which simply sits on the inside of the filter (against the block) uses coolant to cool. I want to avoid this as I don't want the coolant going through both the turbo and a cooler. Coming into summer I'm hoping to develop it to the point where it's not so badly effected by ambient temps. On a hot day at the moment it runs well, but suffers a huge drop in torque.
    Bigger intercooler and water injection are my priorities once it's no longer driven daily.
    Has anyone experimented with this sort of thing?
    Might be worthwhile e-mailing RDG- he is top man on Turbos for Pugs and Renaults-semi retired but sure will help with advice.
    He may not check Aussie Frogs too often
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  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! 505 to the max's Avatar
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    Who's RDG?

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