205 Transmission
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  1. #1
    Member Certifiable's Avatar
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    Default 205 Transmission

    My clutch has a few more months of wear left but it's clearly on the way out. I think the box is a BE1: Reverse is next to First.

    Has anyone replaced their clutch lately and how much is a typical spend?

    Also, has anyone bought a second hand Automatic gearbox lately, and how much was that?

    After how much the rebuild on the 604 transmission cost me I was just wondering whether it's better value to repair the 205 gearbox I've got or replace it.

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    It's just gone 200,000 miles.
    1980 604 [gone to a richer owner]
    1988 205 XLD Diesel

    Old Peugeots never die, they just get more peculiar looking.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Certifiable
    My clutch has a few more months of wear left but it's clearly on the way out. I think the box is a BE1: Reverse is next to First.

    Has anyone replaced their clutch lately and how much is a typical spend?

    Also, has anyone bought a second hand Automatic gearbox lately, and how much was that?

    After how much the rebuild on the 604 transmission cost me I was just wondering whether it's better value to repair the 205 gearbox I've got or replace it.

    It's just gone 200,000 miles.
    OK the clutch is worn out but what is wrong with the gearbox?
    Graham

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Not only that but auto 205's are not thick on the ground in aus.
    i reckon youd be going well just to find an auto transmission and if you did ,the spare parts would be even harder to find.but i spose you are driving a deisel 205 which are even rarer to what ive seen.-BAZZ

  4. #4
    Tadpole
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    i just got a valeo clutch kit fro my 205GTi for $250. just have to fit it myself.

  5. #5
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Be sure to specify it is a diesel, because I know there are a few different kits for BXs including one that is diesel specific and according to my overseas contacts, the diesel clutch is a higher spec clutch than the petrols. Fitting a petrol clutch I would suggest could be a risk due to the higher torques involved in diesel engines and this is also another reason I doubt the autos would be interchangeable; I couldn't imagine the ratios being the same.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  6. #6
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    Nothing's wrong with the gearbox, it's just that I'm a lazy driver. Also, for the money I spent reconditioning the three-speed auto in the 604 I could have replaced it with a four-speed auto or a five-speed manual. So, I was just thinking out loud and exploring options before I started throwing money.
    I wasn't going to fiddle with the box unless changing it was competitive with replacing the clutch. If the box itself is anything like the engine, it'll keep working until the rest of the car falls off.
    1980 604 [gone to a richer owner]
    1988 205 XLD Diesel

    Old Peugeots never die, they just get more peculiar looking.

  7. #7
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    With the wisdom of hindsight, we've recently discovered that too many autos were being poisoned by the use of an incompatable ATF, as a result, I'd be inclined to stick with what you've got before you get a tiger by the tail in the advent of this ATF's prolonged use in the box you might end up with to replace your 5 speeder..

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Certifiable
    Nothing's wrong with the gearbox, it's just that I'm a lazy driver. Also, for the money I spent reconditioning the three-speed auto in the 604 I could have replaced it with a four-speed auto or a five-speed manual. So, I was just thinking out loud and exploring options before I started throwing money.
    I wasn't going to fiddle with the box unless changing it was competitive with replacing the clutch. If the box itself is anything like the engine, it'll keep working until the rest of the car falls off.
    I know where there is a 4 speed auto out of a 205 Si.
    Graham

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    I know where there is a 4 speed auto out of a 205 Si.
    Graham
    That's interesting. Graham, whereabouts is it and do you know much about it, please?


    So Alan, if I understand you:
    Secondhand auto boxes in general should be approached with care, and you also believe Peugeot used different ratios in their gearboxes for diesel and petrol, rather than in the diff. This would mean that a petrol gearbox will have shorter ratios? Not a major problem in a manual - just change up a gear - but with an auto I'd constantly have to race the engine?

    In which case my gearbox only looks like a BE1. I've looked through the paperwork for the 205. No info for the gearbox or ratios (ditto Internet search), but the engine type is XUD 7 (161A). The code '10 DS' is on the gearbox next to the round stamp that looks a bit like a clock.

    Replace the clutch = availability/cost unknown but routine process.
    Replace the gearbox = available. cost unknown but compatibility uncertain.

    [Sigh]
    1980 604 [gone to a richer owner]
    1988 205 XLD Diesel

    Old Peugeots never die, they just get more peculiar looking.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Certifiable
    That's interesting. Graham, whereabouts is it and do you know much about it, please?


    So Alan, if I understand you:
    Secondhand auto boxes in general should be approached with care, and you also believe Peugeot used different ratios in their gearboxes for diesel and petrol, rather than in the diff. This would mean that a petrol gearbox will have shorter ratios? Not a major problem in a manual - just change up a gear - but with an auto I'd constantly have to race the engine?

    In which case my gearbox only looks like a BE1. I've looked through the paperwork for the 205. No info for the gearbox or ratios (ditto Internet search), but the engine type is XUD 7 (161A). The code '10 DS' is on the gearbox next to the round stamp that looks a bit like a clock.

    Replace the clutch = availability/cost unknown but routine process.
    Replace the gearbox = available. cost unknown but compatibility uncertain.

    [Sigh]
    It is in melbourne and should be in excellent condition. It came out of a low km car which had a fire.
    Graham

  11. #11
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I have heard PeterT who is the resident expert on 205s talk about different boxes and ratios and overseas I know some of the guys in the BX16V club have changed across I'm fairly sure to Diesel boxes due to them lowering the revs at top speed and giving it a bit more oomph in a couple of the lower gears.
    I was once going to buy a van that had a diesel engine that had been bolted onto a petrol transmission (not a Pug incidentally) and it was a disaster as I found myself literally changing back into fourth and flattening it even on a flat road so chances of a manual box being slightly different but causing major hassles is to me always going to be a possibility.
    In the case of an auto, having the torque converter could tend to negate the effect to some extent.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    The diesel definitely has a longer set of gears than the petrol models. The closest match from a petrol would be the late (90kW) 205GTi, with the 3.62:1 diff.

    Have a look in the Gearbox section on this site:
    http://www.205gti.com/main_uk.htm
    Last edited by PeterT; 17th August 2005 at 07:04 PM.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    The diesel definitely has a longer set of gears than the petrol models. The closest match from a petrol would be the late (90kW) 205GTi, with the 3.62:1 diff.

    Have a look in the Gearbox section on this site:
    http://www.205gti.com/main_uk.htm
    Have I got this right?
    The higher the gear ratios, the slower the road speed at any given engine speed, and my diesel has lower engine speeds already. Therefore fitting a petrol box will turn my car into a slug if I'm not careful.

    I went looking for information comparing typical manual and automatic ratios, but conscience is sending me back to 'real' work. All I found was that auto boxes have higher (which means "shorter"?) final drive ratios. That sounds like Slugomatic "Do not pass go. Do not collect a $200 fine, ever."

    I used to have comparitive data for my once-upon-a-time BitsAreShitty, but I tossed it when I tossed the car.

    Does anyone have the ratios for a 205 SI auto box?
    1980 604 [gone to a richer owner]
    1988 205 XLD Diesel

    Old Peugeots never die, they just get more peculiar looking.

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    You've got it upside down. The higher the gear ratio, the less revs the engine will use for a given speed. If you changed to a petrol gearbox/diff, you'd use more revs and accelerate faster.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Someone emailed me wondering if I had this terminology incorrect. I have always been led to believe, that the higher the numerical value, the lower the diff, the more revs an engine will use for a given speed.

    ie 3:1 is higher than 4:1, and 0.75:1 is higher than 1:1

    Happy to stand corrected if I have it wrong.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! amcc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    Someone emailed me wondering if I had this terminology incorrect. I have always been led to believe, that the higher the numerical value, the lower the diff, the more revs an engine will use for a given speed.

    ie 3:1 is higher than 4:1, and 0.75:1 is higher than 1:1

    Happy to stand corrected if I have it wrong.

    think you got it right. my understanding is that the ratio refers to the speed of engine compared to the speed of the car. if engine reves high, car goes slow-high ratio, if engine revs are low and car goes fast-low ratio
    French - 92 205mi16, 87 205gti and spares
    Other - Amarok V6, Iveco Daily 50C17, Isuzu 600

  17. #17
    Member Bugsy1701's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    Be sure to specify it is a diesel, because I know there are a few different kits for BXs including one that is diesel specific and according to my overseas contacts, the diesel clutch is a higher spec clutch than the petrols. Fitting a petrol clutch I would suggest could be a risk due to the higher torques involved in diesel engines and this is also another reason I doubt the autos would be interchangeable; I couldn't imagine the ratios being the same.

    Alan S
    Can you fit a diesel clutch to a petrol 205, given that they are higher spec would they perform better/last longer?
    Bugsy

    88 205 GTi
    I wonder what it's like to be grown up?

  18. #18
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bugsy1701
    Can you fit a diesel clutch to a petrol 205, given that they are higher spec would they perform better/last longer?

    I'm lead to believe this is a common thing overseas on the 1.9 and 16V Cit BXs which are = to 205/405 and Mi16 in the Pugs.
    It apparently is a heavier clutch but doesn't give the problem with the heavy pedal that most expect from that kind of conversion.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  19. #19
    Member Bugsy1701's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    I'm lead to believe this is a common thing overseas on the 1.9 and 16V Cit BXs which are = to 205/405 and Mi16 in the Pugs.
    It apparently is a heavier clutch but doesn't give the problem with the heavy pedal that most expect from that kind of conversion.

    Alan S
    Thanks Alan
    Assuming what you say is true why arent we all bolting up oiler clutches to our 205s?
    Is it price? availability? technical?
    Can someone shed some light
    Bugsy

    88 205 GTi
    I wonder what it's like to be grown up?

  20. #20
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I have a clutch job looking me in the eyes at present so I'll probably be able to answer this better in a couple of weeks, but I think you'll find that in recent years the number of different clutches (part number wise anyway) has reduced from several to a couple so the options aren't as many as they were so chances are there may be quite a few already using them and not realising it.
    It's a bit like the fan switch for the 16Vs. In the UK it was found by parts suppliers that a factory suggested mod of swapping the switch for one from a diesel was adopted as the standard part supplied and eveybody was happy, but if bought via a dealer, besides having a price about 3 times as much, they still supplied the higher temp switch that caused all the problems, so you may find that if you buy from a dealer it will be big price small clutch but from somewhere like Caravelle or Auto France it may be the heavier version at a lesser cost. (Just a thought)



    Alan S

    P.S. I'll send you a PM with more details.
    Last edited by Alan S; 30th August 2005 at 07:36 AM.
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  21. #21
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    I've just been reading through this thread - especially the ratios section - and I'm feeling dizzy. I think I'll abandon the automatic plan as my crack about the rest of the car falling off the gearbox has come back to bite me. I'll soon be seen in a wrecking yard near you hunting for little inessentials like door-locks and rear-view mirrors. In such circumstances a new clutch and perhaps a new clutch cable will be extravagance enough. Thank you all for your advice and help, and I look forward to reading Alan's account of his clutch job and the various types available.
    Last edited by Certifiable; 6th September 2005 at 09:36 AM. Reason: I left out a word.
    1980 604 [gone to a richer owner]
    1988 205 XLD Diesel

    Old Peugeots never die, they just get more peculiar looking.

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