Fully Syntheic Oil replaced by Semi-Syth
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Mi16 Man's Avatar
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    Icon6 Fully Syntheic Oil replaced by Semi-Syth

    Hi guys and gals,

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    Had the GTi180 for it's 10K km service yesterday @ Mildrens and on signing the bill at the end, I noted they had put in Castrol FMX instead of Total Quartz 4000 which I had replaced @ 2700kms.

    The fact I had used TOTAL QUARTZ before was in their system so should they not refer to previous "notes" on cars that have been serviced there?

    My simple question is - when mixing the two types oil, can you revert back to using semi-synth oil after having used fully synthetic oil in the past???

    I hope so!! They reckon it's fine but I just want to make sure.....

    Any help is appreciated - am "googling it" now!

    Cheers,
    Stu
    "Take a Lion through a corner - FAST"

    Current Fleet;
    2010 308 XSE HDi SW [Vapour Grey]
    2010 VW GOLF GTI [Carbon Steel Grey]

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    2012 508 Allure HDi [Thorium Grey]
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    Past "Frogs"
    2008 308 XSE HDi SW / 2006 307 XSE HDi Touring / 2001 306 XSi / 2005 206 GTi180 / 2005 407 HDi / 2003 206 XT / 1993 SII 405 Mi16 / 1990 205 GTi / 2x 1985 505 GTi S1 / 1976 504 / 1982 20 TS / 1997 306 XR / 1992 205 Si

  2. #2
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Here's a site that has done a fair amount of research on it.
    Shouldn't pose too many problems as long as they haven't dicked around too much with weightings (ie) replaced a 5W40 with say a 15W50 as this might have an effect if you were to go back to the 5W40 apparently.

    http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

    Read this and draw your own conclusions, but rest assured that synth, semi synth and mineral can all co-exist. I prefer to use nothing but the best and change it regularly along with the filter, but I'm apparently more the exception than the rule, then again, I live in an area where I can leave nothing to chance as regards reliability or I end up sleeping on the side of the highway for a day or two while I wait for someone to get to me.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! Dr_Pug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mi16 Man
    Hi guys and gals,

    Had the GTi180 for it's 10K km service yesterday @ Mildrens and on signing the bill at the end, I noted they had put in Castrol FMX instead of Total Quartz 4000 which I had replaced @ 2700kms.

    The fact I had used TOTAL QUARTZ before was in their system so should they not refer to previous "notes" on cars that have been serviced there?

    My simple question is - when mixing the two types oil, can you revert back to using semi-synth oil after having used fully synthetic oil in the past???

    I hope so!! They reckon it's fine but I just want to make sure.....

    Any help is appreciated - am "googling it" now!

    Cheers,
    Stu
    Im noticing that pug dealerships around syd are becoming "cheapskates" when it comes to putting in better oil.

    Fix: Take your own oil and ask them to deduct it off the service price........
    Last edited by WRC180; 11th August 2005 at 12:51 AM.
    04' GTi 180

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! J206GTI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackster
    Im noticing that pug dealerships around syd are becoming "cheapskates" when it comes to putting in better oil.

    Fix: Take your own oil and ask them to deduct it off the service price........
    It's the same as Melb dealers. They all switched to cheapo Castrol oil wihout notifying you. Although they said you can 'request' to have Total oil when you book for the service, it takes a day or two to arrive from sydney warehouse.

    stupid...
    Jason

    206 GTI MY01.5 Oversteer Edition

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  5. #5
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    At present, I'm toying with the idea of hauling the motor out of one of my sons cars, a BX 1.9 TZi which has been an oil burner since he bought it with 90K klms on it.
    We can live with it and have improved it since we had it, but it's bloody annoying. It seems that with these engines, the ones with the big miles go forever, but the low mileage ones are oil burners; why?
    My best theory was that this car was running on this Penrite crap that most of the dealers and service guys seem to have a fettish for up here that is rated about 20W50 or 25W60 in an engine with reasonably small tolerences and myriads of oil passages.
    If my theory holds true, the stop start type of running this car has had means the car has been run, not up to full operating temperature on most occasions and then parked up for the night whereupon most of the oil has drained off. When next started, engine cold, the first revolution of the engine has wiped the oil film off (due to it being this thick gunk) and the engine has then done a few revs on a dry surface; metal to metal (got a calculator handy? Check on how many revs a second it does at 1500 rpm) and remember that the thicker oil takes longer to circulate.
    My 16V by comparison has about the same mileage, has always run on synthetic and is presently on 5W40 and does not use one drop of oil in 7,000klms, so personally, I think the better the quality of oil and the recommended type and weighting is an important factor in the long life of any cars mechanicals.
    Personally, if I had a new car and without my permission, one of these cowboys changed it from the recommended lubricant, I'd eat the bastard. After all, if in another say 50K klms, the car develops a problem that may be related back to a lubrication deficiency, are they going to put their hands up and admit they changed the lubrication on their own initiative? "Ah don't think so Tim" as they used to say in "Home Improvement."


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mi16 Man
    Hi guys and gals,

    Had the GTi180 for it's 10K km service yesterday @ Mildrens and on signing the bill at the end, I noted they had put in Castrol FMX instead of Total Quartz 4000 which I had replaced @ 2700kms.

    The fact I had used TOTAL QUARTZ before was in their system so should they not refer to previous "notes" on cars that have been serviced there?

    My simple question is - when mixing the two types oil, can you revert back to using semi-synth oil after having used fully synthetic oil in the past???

    I hope so!! They reckon it's fine but I just want to make sure.....

    Any help is appreciated - am "googling it" now!

    Cheers,
    Stu
    If i was you, I would ask them to change it. Something as highly strung as a 180, I would be keeping Synthetic in it, especially if the handbook states that it is required (read somewhere that this is the case with the 180 ). If so, they should change it to full synth at their cost (and learn to read their own service literature...)
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  7. #7
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    At present, I'm toying with the idea of hauling the motor out of one of my sons cars, a BX 1.9 TZi which has been an oil burner since he bought it with 90K klms on it.
    We can live with it and have improved it since we had it, but it's bloody annoying. It seems that with these engines, the ones with the big miles go forever, but the low mileage ones are oil burners; why?
    My best theory was that this car was running on this Penrite crap that most of the dealers and service guys seem to have a fettish for up here that is rated about 20W50 or 25W60 in an engine with reasonably small tolerences and myriads of oil passages.
    If my theory holds true, the stop start type of running this car has had means the car has been run, not up to full operating temperature on most occasions and then parked up for the night whereupon most of the oil has drained off. When next started, engine cold, the first revolution of the engine has wiped the oil film off (due to it being this thick gunk) and the engine has then done a few revs on a dry surface; metal to metal (got a calculator handy? Check on how many revs a second it does at 1500 rpm) and remember that the thicker oil takes longer to circulate.
    My 16V by comparison has about the same mileage, has always run on synthetic and is presently on 5W40 and does not use one drop of oil in 7,000klms, so personally, I think the better the quality of oil and the recommended type and weighting is an important factor in the long life of any cars mechanicals.
    Personally, if I had a new car and without my permission, one of these cowboys changed it from the recommended lubricant, I'd eat the bastard. After all, if in another say 50K klms, the car develops a problem that may be related back to a lubrication deficiency, are they going to put their hands up and admit they changed the lubrication on their own initiative? "Ah don't think so Tim" as they used to say in "Home Improvement."


    Alan S
    Well said. Just proves the benefit of running a 5W to cover short trips and need for lubrication quickly.

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  8. #8
    Tadpole
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    At present, I'm toying with the idea of hauling the motor out of one of my sons cars, a BX 1.9 TZi which has been an oil burner since he bought it with 90K klms on it.
    We can live with it and have improved it since we had it, but it's bloody annoying. It seems that with these engines, the ones with the big miles go forever, but the low mileage ones are oil burners; why?
    My best theory was that this car was running on this Penrite crap that most of the dealers and service guys seem to have a fettish for up here that is rated about 20W50 or 25W60 in an engine with reasonably small tolerences and myriads of oil passages.
    If my theory holds true, the stop start type of running this car has had means the car has been run, not up to full operating temperature on most occasions and then parked up for the night whereupon most of the oil has drained off. When next started, engine cold, the first revolution of the engine has wiped the oil film off (due to it being this thick gunk) and the engine has then done a few revs on a dry surface; metal to metal (got a calculator handy? Check on how many revs a second it does at 1500 rpm) and remember that the thicker oil takes longer to circulate.
    My 16V by comparison has about the same mileage, has always run on synthetic and is presently on 5W40 and does not use one drop of oil in 7,000klms, so personally, I think the better the quality of oil and the recommended type and weighting is an important factor in the long life of any cars mechanicals.
    Personally, if I had a new car and without my permission, one of these cowboys changed it from the recommended lubricant, I'd eat the bastard. After all, if in another say 50K klms, the car develops a problem that may be related back to a lubrication deficiency, are they going to put their hands up and admit they changed the lubrication on their own initiative? "Ah don't think so Tim" as they used to say in "Home Improvement."


    Alan S
    Consider that Penrite offers smaller discounts to workshops and dealerships than the big brands do.
    ie if Penrite can be bought in bulk for say, $5/litre and sold for $6/litre and Castrol/Shell/valvoline etc will sell bulk for $3/litre and worksops retail it for $6/litre then there must be another motivating factor.
    And, since most large profit driven workshops dont use Penrite, I would say that is another flaw in the theory that Penrite is as you put it "crap".

    Alan, I have read your writings for years with growing respect. But this emotional and subjective attitude about oil made me wonder if it was written by Alan S.
    Will the real Alan S please stand up. We need his valuable input.

  9. #9
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frogslegs
    Consider that Penrite offers smaller discounts to workshops and dealerships than the big brands do.
    ie if Penrite can be bought in bulk for say, $5/litre and sold for $6/litre and Castrol/Shell/valvoline etc will sell bulk for $3/litre and worksops retail it for $6/litre then there must be another motivating factor.
    And, since most large profit driven workshops dont use Penrite, I would say that is another flaw in the theory that Penrite is as you put it "crap".

    Alan, I have read your writings for years with growing respect. But this emotional and subjective attitude about oil made me wonder if it was written by Alan S.
    Will the real Alan S please stand up. We need his valuable input.
    I'll stand by the same logic I stood by when I reckoned all the ZF autos were being blown up due to repairers dumping Dex3 in without asking any questions; here I still reckon they are following urban myths on the advantages of Penrite.
    As an oil, I don't say it's any worse than a lot of others, but having said that I will also say it's definitely no better than a lot of others going on its performance in the cars I've had it put in, (as opposed to me putting it in) and the urban myth goes to the weights it usually recoemmends usually much heavier than recommended by manufacturers, as a result, we get higher performing cars with as in the case of the 16V myriads of oilways, some very fine that these 20 & 25W 50s and 60s are meandering down at it's liesure and the myth that because it's thick it lubricates better. The story the users will give almost to a man is that this is better because it is more in keeping with "Australian conditions." It seems that 30 deg C in Brisbane is much different temperature wise than 30 degrees in say London or Athens. The fact that multi grade oils are suppodly more viscous at higher temps than the lower ones (which was the reason for their exiatence in the first place) says that as things heat up, the oil progressively gets thicker and hence slows it's speed of travel through the oil passageways, which could explain why every car that this stuff has been used in (my sons 90K klms TZi from Brisbane being one recent example) has this thick dirty mess slopping about in the crankcase even after a short time following a service which also included a Purflux filter and this seems to be the common denominator between all the cars I've been associated with that have used it.
    For some reason though, most seem to reckon it's the bees knees, but ask them why & all you get is a string of testimonials put out by the company.
    It might be a great oil, but on my own experience, I'd possibly use "No Frills" and change it more often than use this stuff.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

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