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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default 1st Car?

    G'day
    I've been eavesdropping on this forum for ages and thought it was about time I joined in, so here i am

    Was wondering what people thought of a 205 si as a first car (Gti too expensive to insure for 18yo male). Any reliabilty issues or the like?
    Also how does it compare to a 306?

    I know your all probably bias, but thats ok cos the olds have given me the pug gene, and ive driven mums 306 so im hooked!

    Thanks a bunch

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    1000+ Posts purrr-geot's Avatar
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    I think the 205si would be a funky 1st car.

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    al
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    The 205 si is a good little car, but i reckon a 306 xt or xr would be better. I looked at one of these when i got my 405 Mi16 (my first car) and they are really good for starting off with.

    They have a bit more room than the 205s, are newer and if you can find one that has been well looked after (most likely by an older kew or balwyn resident) they should be pretty reliable.

    If i were you i would get a 205gti or 405mi16 though and put it on third party insurance, but that is just my opinion...
    405 Mi16 - Sold - Now back
    205 Mi16
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    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    I hate to say this, but its a big leap in nearly everything from a 205Si to any 306. The VERY few (x2) si's i drove were fun, but slow and didn't have the chuck of the Gti.... my 2c anyway! - Chris
    ... ptui!

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    I might be slow... DRTDVL's Avatar
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    if the insurance is too mich for a gti, try and find a gt... it's a 1.4lt...

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    How does the 205 compare to the 306?
    Ive only driven the latter (mums) and love it.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRTDVL
    if the insurance is too mich for a gti, try and find a gt... it's a 1.4lt...

    we don't get them here

    we only got the Si 1.6 and GTi 1.9
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scatterbrain
    How does the 205 compare to the 306?
    Ive only driven the latter (mums) and love it.

    the 306 is very much refined

    rides better and rattles less

    take a few for a drive and see what takes your fancy
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

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    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    Perhaps we could just pass the hat around and send this guy
    to Betty Ford Clinic get him/her turned to Barinas?

    Could be case of chronic addiction otherwise.

    Best of motoring.

    ed ge

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scatterbrain
    How does the 205 compare to the 306?
    Ive only driven the latter (mums) and love it.
    The 205's fall apart about 10% faster than a 306, thats not to say they just crumble in a few weeks, but its the little things. This has mainly to do with the fact that 205 are much older in desing. 306's are comfier and a little more refined, were as the 205 is raw go-kart like. Fun factor is a little higher on the 205 but that really applies to the Gti. The 205 is smaller and more compact by about 15%, but is a delight in traffic, is you get Power Steering. I think all 306's did, but i'm sure the 205si missed out. The 205 dosn't feel slower but is by about 25%. Its also easier to brake into. Mind you neither car really attrack thieves, their not hondas or bomodores.
    The 306 was supposed to replace the 205, but Peugeot knew it was going to be hard. The 205 had won SOOO many hearts around the world, so they built 2 new cars the 306 and the 106, we only got the 306 in Oz so the 205 remains a classic here and abroad. Lots of onwers that have both 205 and 306 to play with say the later model car (306) lost the raw and fun factor that the 205 delivered, not to say the 306 is boring, just not as much sheer outright fun as a 205... spesh the Gti.
    Personally i couldn't live with an Si', but that because I'm me, the best thing you can do is drive one. Take it for atleast 1/2 hour and try to park the thing several times.... - Chris
    ... ptui!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CHRI'S16
    I hate to say this, but its a big leap in nearly everything from a 205Si to any 306. The VERY few (x2) si's i drove were fun, but slow and didn't have the chuck of the Gti.... my 2c anyway! - Chris
    I'm getting my UK spec GTi back tommorrow so I can make a direct comparison after driving the Si for a while.
    In the meantime the 205Si has won two motorsport events outright, a Motorkhana and a Khanacross, and I'm still learning FWD.
    It also came second outright in a combined Hillclimb/ Khanacross. On the hillclimb it was only a second or so behind cars like V8 Commodore, V6 504, Alfetta etc.
    It is quicker in terms of acceleration than any RWD Pug I have owned, except MAYBE the V6 505. No torque but the harder you rev it the harder it goes.
    I think it is more chuckable than the GTi, the power steering makes it so easy.
    It does rattle, the heater doesn't work very well, but it is supremely economical, reliable and cruises smoothly and quietly.
    At 230000km it uses no oil and the oil stays clean.
    Incidentally when we had the head off the (130hp)1.9 GTi we compared it with an Si head and it was the same. Another source for heads to upgrade local 1.9s?
    Graham

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    al
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    I agree with graham about the chuckability of the si. Whevever i get my hands on my sisters car i am always suprised by how well the thing turns in and hangs on. It certainly requires less manhandling at everyday speeds than my Mi16 and the non PAS 205s i have driven.

    My only concern with the si is its appearance... While they are great they do live in the shadow of the gti, and come from the factory graced with really little wheels and a big gap between the tyre and the body. If i had one i would probably lower it a bit and put some gti pepperpots on it just to make it look a bit more manly...
    405 Mi16 - Sold - Now back
    205 Mi16
    505 GTi

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    Thanks for all the help!

    Certainly given me some things to think about...

    And give up on getting me off pugs cos like many here im sure, its genetic

    Mum --> 504 -----> 306
    --->505
    Dad --> 404 ---> Commodore (work car)

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Ask your dad... he seems to have had a decent car in his day...

    I'd suggest you'd find a 405 more practical and sensible for a first car.

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    Interesting thread, good question, and good replies.

    I drive my wife's 205Si and her son's 306XT. There's not much of a comparison. Yes the 205 has more chuckaroundability, but the 306 feels so much more chunky - more solid, more plush, more quiet. Just try doing freeway speeds in both of them.

    The 205 is a good little runaround behind my Mi16, but given a choice, I would opt for a 306. Ensure you get a late model one.

    Problem is, the 205 was basically a $20k car and the 306 a $30k car, and the prices are somewhat reflected in the resale values.

    Certainly a 205GTi goes like its bum is on fire, but people don't realise that it is so much stiffer, by all accounts it is harder to drive than an Si.

    Couldn't agree more with Ray's comment. I've always thought that a S2 405 is ideal as a cheap, safe, reliable and roomy first-timer.

    Chris

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    I might be slow... DRTDVL's Avatar
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    Driver safetly: the 306 is a much safer car, it's not going to snap the back end around on you like the 205's will. It's a much easier car to drive, and is as stated more comfy. (the 205 was still very comfy - well to me)

    I've got a 306 s16 at the mo, and the ride comparision is:

    306 = 400kg heavier
    306 = chunky stearing feel
    306 = more solid feel
    205 = go kart feel
    205 = lite nimble stearing (once moving - had to power stearing, but the car is so light it didn't really need it... the girls will love your new arms that you get from parking in car parks and parrell parking)

    205 = prone to lift off overstear, this is the biggest cause of wreaked 205 gti's and plain 205s.

    the 306 is defantly faster than the 205, but doesn't rev as freely, it sticks to the road better (because of the weight) espically on gravel.


    i like most of the people here have owned both and i've learn to drive in the 205.

    (my first car was a mazda 323 1.5lt 3 speed auto, then i moved up to a peugeot 205 gt (1.4lt. single cam, single carb, chain driven))...

    my personal opionon is:

    205 = great as it's cheaper, lighter, will use less gas, insurance will be cheaper,extremely fun to drive, but it's older, will most likely have high km's,

    306 = newer, bigger, comfy, handles very well, is fun to drive, but, more gas, heavier, costs more, insurenace costs,

    i'd personally look for a 306 desiel... as a first car, it will be cheap to run, still will go damm well, but thats my

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dijon16
    Interesting thread, good question, and good replies.

    I drive my wife's 205Si and her son's 306XT. There's not much of a comparison. Yes the 205 has more chuckaroundability, but the 306 feels so much more chunky - more solid, more plush, more quiet. Just try doing freeway speeds in both of them.

    The 205 is a good little runaround behind my Mi16, but given a choice, I would opt for a 306. Ensure you get a late model one.

    Problem is, the 205 was basically a $20k car and the 306 a $30k car, and the prices are somewhat reflected in the resale values.

    Certainly a 205GTi goes like its bum is on fire, but people don't realise that it is so much stiffer, by all accounts it is harder to drive than an Si.

    Couldn't agree more with Ray's comment. I've always thought that a S2 405 is ideal as a cheap, safe, reliable and roomy first-timer.

    Chris

    Is your Si an auto? Road noise excepted my manual Si is quieter then my 505 GTi on the highway.
    Graham

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    GW, the Si is a manual. I guess the main components of noise are wind, road and engine. The tyres are forgettable, probably Michies, and are not particularly noisy. I think it is the engine which makes the most noise. Not uncomfortable or intrusive, but noticeable at freeway speeds.

    The 505 and 205 were launched 3 and a bit years apart, in theory I would expect a 205 to be quieter, but the FWD/RWD factor comes into the equation.

    What I notice most is gearing, however. My Mi16 does about 3000rpm at 100km, which is just at my limit of comfort. My brother-in-law's Foulcan, only a couple of years newer, is much quiter, spinning at only 1500 at the same speed.

    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRTDVL
    i'd personally look for a 306 desiel... as a first car, it will be cheap to run, still will go damm well, but thats my
    My five cents worth - that being all that's in my wallet after buying fuel - is that diesels are are not cheaper to run. What you save in litres per hundred you lose in the price mark-up. With diesel there's no cheap day of the week, no competitive price-cutting and no cheap servicing.

    The principal advantage of diesel in a small car is engine life.
    1980 604 [gone to a richer owner]
    1988 205 XLD Diesel

    Old Peugeots never die, they just get more peculiar looking.

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    205 = prone to lift off overstear, this is the biggest cause of wreaked 205 gti's and plain 205s.

    This is a very good characteristic of the 205 gti. Its is predictable, u know when u push it too hard it will over steer. this is how a car should handle. People probably dont understand how the 205 handles and then they crash it and say it is bad. They should learn to drive first.

    Look at it another way, u could buy a small japanese car and this will understeer chronically but predictably. This can result in hitting a curb or something.

    If u want a car that corners properly get a 205 gti. they are the best.

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    I d be recomending a 405 as well...they are well priced even compared to an si...
    I m sorry to have to say it.....but if this is your first car...chances are.....(appologies again) that you will crash it.......You don t really want to be in a 205 during even a mild hit, ...306 is much better.....

    There are many 205 drivers on here.....and I m sure many feel the "insecurity" when talking about being hit hard while in the 205....

    I d go 405....a bit more staid but offers (if even psychologically) greater protection....yes its more mundane...but why jump into the deep straight away...
    205 gti is very forgiving...but ultimately its renown for being a "drivers" car....push it hard when you don t know what ypou are doing and you ll end up in trouble....


    cheers and good luck
    (please dont be offended in me being so pesimistic re: likely crash....my opinion is based on experience and statistics)...I hope you never become part of the statistic...

    dino......

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    That's not the only reason I recommended the 405...

    It's bound to be more stable under a lot of circumstances, a very desirable thing for a new driver.

    But it's also more flexible in use... room for a few friends in comfort, much more practical.

    Crash protection is secondary, but it's a reasonable thing to consider as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aston
    205 = prone to lift off overstear, this is the biggest cause of wreaked 205 gti's and plain 205s.

    This is a very good characteristic of the 205 gti. Its is predictable, u know when u push it too hard it will over steer. this is how a car should handle. People probably dont understand how the 205 handles and then they crash it and say it is bad. They should learn to drive first.

    Look at it another way, u could buy a small japanese car and this will understeer chronically but predictably. This can result in hitting a curb or something.

    If u want a car that corners properly get a 205 gti. they are the best.
    I've never seen a crashed 205, usually they're just worn out!
    Graham

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    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    That's not the only reason I recommended the 405...

    It's bound to be more stable under a lot of circumstances, a very desirable thing for a new driver.

    But it's also more flexible in use... room for a few friends in comfort, much more practical.

    Crash protection is secondary, but it's a reasonable thing to consider as well.


    I think many of the issues you bring up are rather obvious....although not necesarilly true....ie..fold the seats down in a 205 and it will more than likely carry more than a 405?....
    405 is a bigger car.....so yes to me its obvious it will be larger inside (marginally) and not a big deal for youngsters who don t mind being a bit cramped....ie cramped but cool is often chosen over comfortable but mundane( possibly uncool..ie volvo 240...see what I am getting at....)

    I think...the 405 has a better presence on the road....it will handle the longer trips with more comfort and is more likely to instill a more desciplined attitude towards modern day driving conditions.....
    And I think the safety aspect should be emphasised to a greater extent even if it is only psychological....a new driver needs to feel a sense of comfort and safety (minus arrogance and dependance on such features)


    cheers

    dino

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    al
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    When i was looking for my first car i was advised to get a 405Mi over a 205gti due to them being far more forgiving and less likely to snap. This was excellent advice and the 405 has been a perfect first car - plenty of grunt when you want it and relatively unlikely to end up back-to-front...

    Personally i would see their ability to take passengers as a disadvantage as it encourages "friends" to use you as a taxi, but it can be useful to have the extra room.
    405 Mi16 - Sold - Now back
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