Engine removal 505 STI
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    Default Engine removal 505 STI

    Hi All,

    I've pulled and replaced quite a few engines on XN powered 504/5's over time and have no real issues pulling them in and out.

    It looks like my sisters car may well have a rear main seal gone so I am looking down the barrel of pulling the motor from it. I will throw a clutch in at the same time.

    Are there any real traps ? are they much harder then the old XN ?


    Any advice would be great. Hoping to get it running a lot better at the same time!

    Cheers

    Ben

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    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  2. #2
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Much harder... and seeing as I've only done it once, I hesitate to make any recommendations.

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Yes, agree with Ray re the comparison with the XN engine series.

    The real difficulties lie in the extra work & time needed to remove all the additional plumbing, fuel injection system (K type), induction trunks & plenum chamber, exhaust / air valve system etc. It just takes patience & time.

    Be careful of the oil leak diagnosis. These engines are well known for developing (at high mileages) an oil leak at the back right hand corner between the cylinder head & engine block. The mess underneath the car can give the appearance of a leaking rear main seal, plus other interpretations.

    I know you intend to do a clutch also, but confirm your oil leak source whilst the car is mobile.

    Cheers,
    Kim.

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    Thanks Ray....thought it will be.


    Kim,

    Thanks for that i've struck the head leak before on our GTI, but since this STI only had the head done in November i'd say it wil be OK!

    I dont know if the oil is coming from the rear seal it looks like it's coming from the side of the engine *intake side* and blowing back into the bellhousing.

    Any ideas on where the leak could be coming from ?


    Cheers

    Ben

    PS the clutch is not stuffed, not even slipping, but thought it would be stupid to pull it apart and not put one in!
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Hi Ben,
    On the intake side there are two possible ( & common) sources:

    One is the distributor body 'O' ring, which after many years & km's becomes very brittle. Any distributor timing adjustments once the seal hardens usually hastens the oil leak from this area.

    The other will be the lower fitting for the crankcase breather hose which connects between the block & rocker cover, which I have seen actually split in half, again due to age hardening.

    Good luck with diagnosis.

    Kim.

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    Hi Kim,

    Thanks for you help so far, it's really great.

    I have replaced the pipe already but not the seal in the distributor. Can you get that seal from EAI or the like ?

    If that seal is gone will it leak a fair bit ?

    Cheers

    Ben
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  7. #7
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    Hi Ben,
    don't mean to be patronising,
    I've repaced rear crank seals and fortunately someone told me to cross hatch the surface with a reasonably rough emery paper. This created a perfect seal.
    the other point is that the repalcement seal should be narrower than the origional one so it does not run in the same groove.

    From what i know this (oil leaking seems to happen at about 150 000km) on most cars.
    Please let us know how you are getting on with this.

    JoBo

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Hi Ben,
    Distributor body seal is available either as a genuine part, or can be matched up at any good bearing supplies etc type outlet.

    I purchased mine through Caravelle Imports in Melbourne. The genuine article is amazingly smaller in diameter (as an 'O' ring) than the one you will remove, but seems to stretch over OK.

    Regarding the actual rate of oil loss, I have not seen any that actually become a serious leak - it is usually just enough to cause a few drips when parked etc. That is annoying enough, however, and is an automatic fail on the registration inspection in NSW.

    Good advice re the rear main seal. Off-setting the new seal longitudinally on the shaft by 1-2mm will create the same effect as finding a seal with different depths (to avoid the original running groove).

    Cheers,
    Kim.

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! 604 tragic's Avatar
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    Default Advice - Long!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pug_405_Mi16
    Hi All,

    I've pulled and replaced quite a few engines on XN powered 504/5's over time and have no real issues pulling them in and out.

    It looks like my sisters car may well have a rear main seal gone so I am looking down the barrel of pulling the motor from it. I will throw a clutch in at the same time.

    Are there any real traps ? are they much harder then the old XN ?


    Any advice would be great. Hoping to get it running a lot better at the same time!

    Cheers

    Ben
    Ben - can I ask WHY you think the rear seal has gone?
    The STI engines have a hidden flaw which causes them to build up too much pressure and spew oil out everywhere possible. Usually its around the front of the engine, the cam seals and front main, so this causes the timing belt to break (ask me how I know!!!).

    To explain the flaw - remember on the old Pug engines (404 to 505GR) where you poured the oil in & there was a plastic cap for the oil breather which had a mesh canister inside as a sort of filter? After a while the mesh would solidify from rust & muck and sort of block off the breather. Well the STI has the same type of thing inside the rocker cover - this causes the same problem - only you cant get to it!!! The blockage will be inside the raised section at the rear of the rocker cover which has 2 smallish hoses going into & out of it.

    There is a bigger hose from the sump that goes into the front of the rocker cover and this blockage in the rocker cover means the pressure has nowhere to go - except out the seals. This is why all the Aussie emmission Douvrin pre unleaded engines are usually a dirty mess (unless the oil is changed twice as much as its supposed to be). I think our local emmission modifications trap moisture & eventually clog up the breathers.

    In desperation, I have cut up an STI rocker cover to find & solve the problem.

    BUT if you have to remove the engine to do the clutch anyway, I can give you some tips as I have done some recently (doing one now actually!)

    Allow a long period of time as the STIs are as 'hard' as the GR/SRs are 'easy'.
    Before really starting try and clean as much crap off where its spewing oil as its a dirty job anyway.

    You MUST drop the front crossmember to get easier access - substituting 2 old 403 head bolts are exactly the right length to get at starter motor and bellhousing bolts.
    Remove radiator (& its front support plate) and look at how the Airflow meter support is bolted to the drivers side off the engine bay. When you unbolt this (3 nuts) you can move this injection stuff out of the way to get at drivers side of engine (after taking out aircleaner etc)

    I keep all the injection stuff together & not disturb any petrol lines - take out the 4 injectors from the manifold (easy) - undo the cold start injector and the cold start regulator & bunch them together in a plastic bag above where the air cleaner was. Now decide if you want to take off the inlet manifold - I have done it both ways and its much easier to get at the rear of the engine when you do this - but it takes a while to remove & refit. I suppose it depends if your on your own or not.

    Remove starter & exhaust bolts.

    At front of engine the the air conditioning & PS pump are on the one lateral support which unbolts - take off the alternator.

    Loosen (take out) all the engine mount bolts.

    You can easily unplug the electrical loom and clean & bag it (minimal unbolting) to get it out of the way.

    I found that when using the support eyelets on the crane or hoist, the engine had the WRONG tilt & needed an extra chain to the exhaust side - to make refitting easier.

    If you get the crane arm as low as possible onto the engine when lifting you wont have to take off the bonnet.

    I suggest you plan to fit a new cam belt (& water pump?) when you have put the engine back in - but before the radiator. I like to get the engine back in & running momentarily without the radiator & then fit a new belt.

    Warning - Oil on the belt of an STI is an early death to these engines - if oil is coming out the seals, the cam seal is usually the first to go.

    Good luck
    So many projects - so little time.

  10. #10
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    would it not be easier to leave the engine in and take the box out to do the clutch

    then fix up the oil leaks while the engine is in place

    seems to be an awful lot of trouble to go to just to do a clutch and a few oil leaks

    my prefered method is to leave engines in place unless they have to come out to do something major to them

    the only times i have pulled an engine out of a car is either to scrap the rest of the car or to rebuild the engine or to replace an engine in a car, the other one was to rectify the gear linkages in my mothers 203 once and we took the engine and box out of it but that was a 203 and there is nothing hard in removing an engine in one of them
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