XN timing chains life expectancy?
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  1. #1
    nJm
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    Default XN timing chains life expectancy?

    I was having a chat with someone the other day and I mentioned I don't have to worry about snapping cambelts (like in their Astra, which is now famous for it happening closer to 60,000km rather than 80,000km) and said my double row timing chains should last the life of the car. He said they should be replaced at 300,000km as they start to stretch etc.

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    what should I expect given that my car is now at 290,000km?
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  2. #2
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Worry when you can hear it rattle...

    The tensioner will wear badly, it will start to toss around in the case and run against the case, that's the rattle. The next step is that the tensioner will tend to pop out of its cylinder, flayling around it will wear a rounded end on its piston... guess what comes next?

    No, you'll never guess... you have to be there...

    It will occasionally start banging back and forth, making a sound for all the world like you've dropped a big end in a big way. Then you drive home and fix it.

    If you're worried, I'd take the cover off, check the amount of wear, particularly on the piston of the tensioner. Take the tensioner out and make sure the filter inside it is clean and the oil is getting through to pressurise it, put it back together and wait for the above symptoms before you worry any further.

  3. #3
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    [QUOTE=Ray Bell]Worry when you can hear it rattle...

    Interesting. The chain in my previous car "rattled" at low revs at 91K kms (13 years and harsh climate). My Peugeot/Citroen mechanic said not to worry about it. Primary cause was wear in the casing, not the chain. Above about 70km/h it couldn't be heard (tensioning?). Following 30K kms it didn't get worse (which was when I sold the vehicle). I was told it would never break, although the noise could get worse if the casing started wearing out. And apparantly the chain is self-tensioning???

    Anyway, had no problems with it, other than people knowing when I arrived as my otherwise "silent" car had a loud rattle while idling.

    I'm sure someone is now going to give a more detailed explanation of the mechanics of my rattling timing chain!

    Patrick
    605 SVE

  4. #4
    Tadpole
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    Default That chain is surely rattling on startup and idle?

    If you're sure the chain has done 290,000 (and not rattling?) you,ve done very well. How soon it wears depends on how hard you rev them and if a cam is modified the chain works harder.
    Make no mistake the chain and tensioner can be stuffed by well before 100 K's if you give them a hard time.
    However it's not a big nor expensive job to replace the chain and tensioner on the 504's.
    I can guarantee you it will be 80% technically stuffed. IE chain stretched/worn and tensioner half falling out of its bore. However it will deafen you before it breaks!
    For the technically interested, did you realise that as any chain stretches/wears the effective pitch of the links changes and it then runs around the cogs in progressively widening diameters further from its base as it tries to find its matching 'pitch circle diameter' on the cog.
    This is graphically illustrated on (dry) motorcycle chains when left unlubricated and you see the cogs eventually being worn so thin on the TIPS that they bend/break over and the chain slips.
    Tightening the slack can't help a wearing cog or chain either. It's the changing pitch circle that's the problem.
    All the old bikies out there know that the infallible way to check any chain and cog for wear is to simply tug a link outboard and see if there is any significant movement diametrically of an individual link pin, at about the centre of a segment wrapped around at least 180 degrees of the cog.
    From pushbikes to Puegeots its the same test.
    A new chain fitted around a new cog wheel will be 'snug' and when you try to lift one link it will only move that one link a little, but it's neighbours will not.
    Worn ones may lift almost to the tip of an individual tooth and some or all of the nearby links will also move in sympathy.
    Here endeth the chain sermon !
    Cheers
    R

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! sfrawley's Avatar
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    Does all the above apply to the diesel as well?
    Stephen
    '03 P406 HDI
    '16 Renault Master

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Timing chains...

    Quote Originally Posted by sfrawley
    Does all the above apply to the diesel as well?
    I'm sure the later Pug '04 diesels have a gear train? I could have a look in my parts manuals I suppose. Just looked, yes it has gears.

  7. #7
    L J
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    Both petrol and diesels are effectived(in the rear wheel drive rang)
    Also a warn/stretched chain will retard the cam timing, lowering power,
    economy.

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! sfrawley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    I'm sure the later Pug '04 diesels have a gear train? I could have a look in my parts manuals I suppose. Just looked, yes it has gears.
    No, the 2300 (XD2) has a chain. Only the XD88 has gears.
    Stephen
    '03 P406 HDI
    '16 Renault Master

  9. #9
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    All diesels had timing gears for accuracy and long life. The later 504's had timing chains presumably for cheapness. Early 203's do not have a timing chain adjuster. When it starts to rattle (60,000 miles) you replace it. Happily the timing chain for a Holden V8 is identical.

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default timing chains...

    Quote Originally Posted by sfrawley
    No, the 2300 (XD2) has a chain. Only the XD88 has gears.
    Sfrawley,
    Your correction noted. Thanks,I rushed in on that one, wrong page, wrong manual!
    Our local club dieseleer "Macfearsome" tells me that the diesel 504's sold in Aus. only had the XD2 with chain. [I hope I heard him right, he's a Queenslander you know.]

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! sfrawley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    Sfrawley,
    Your correction noted. Thanks,I rushed in on that one, wrong page, wrong manual!
    Our local club dieseleer "Macfearsome" tells me that the diesel 504's sold in Aus. only had the XD2 with chain. [I hope I heard him right, he's a Queenslander you know.]
    That's right. There was an XD88 (1950cc, timing gears, removeable liners), XD90 (2100cc, timing chain, removeable liners) and XD2 (2300cc, timing chain, machined bores). Only the XD2 was sold in Australia.
    Stephen
    '03 P406 HDI
    '16 Renault Master

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! Molerpa's Avatar
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    aha!! the XD4.88 and XD4.90 were also put in an argentinian truck called "rastrojero"

    here's a picture.



    another...



    and the last
    Last edited by Molerpa; 3rd July 2005 at 07:46 AM.

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