604 Head Problems
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  1. #1
    Member SLIPPERY PIZZA's Avatar
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    Icon9 604 Head Problems

    Hi guys,
    just a quickie- finally started work on the 604 I acquired a couple of months ago (& a spare one-pretty sad). The good one was running when I bought it , not well I thouht points carbies etc etc. Had been sitting for 4 YRS.
    Found out today it is leaking water into #1 cylinder. What is the normal cause ,can I be optimistic & assume head gasket or the dreaded block& /or liner problems. Would it be worth a dose of "Chemiweld", have used it before and been successful , particularly on alloy heads.

    Thanks Guys.

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  2. #2
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLIPPERY PIZZA
    Hi guys,
    just a quickie- finally started work on the 604 I acquired a couple of months ago (& a spare one-pretty sad). The good one was running when I bought it , not well I thouht points carbies etc etc. Had been sitting for 4 YRS.
    Found out today it is leaking water into #1 cylinder. What is the normal cause ,can I be optimistic & assume head gasket or the dreaded block& /or liner problems. Would it be worth a dose of "Chemiweld", have used it before and been successful , particularly on alloy heads.

    Thanks Guys.

    if you are lucky it will be a head gasket

    if you are unlucky it will be a corroded head but i haven't found too many 604 heads corroded

    chemi weld will only work for a short time in a 604 engine so you are better off doing it right to start with

    of course you could always send it here and i'll rebuild the whole engine for you
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  3. #3
    Member SLIPPERY PIZZA's Avatar
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    Icon14 604 head problems

    Thanks Rambo, appreciate the reply.
    No problem for me to do a rebuild if needed ,thanks for the offer.
    Where do I go for parts(Peugeot or non genuine) our local Pug bloke is an extortionist. Are there rebuild kits out there ?? Just my quick thoughts if it is a full rebuild : Go up to the 2.8 or can I go to 3.0L with different pots & cranks. Do the pots go straight in or do you bore the block(for the 2.8L).
    350 holley, injection or the 3 bl weber & correct manifold(any idea of price for the weber setup & who has one). electronic ignition, unleaded valves & maybe bigger size?? Don't touch the cams unless they are worn ??, Has anyone come up with extractors for these motors, have seen a lot of ideas on this site about this problem.
    Have read a lot of your posts on 604's will read more of them to come up to speed and save wasting space with more posts, just put the above thoughts here as this seems to be the way to go.

    Thanks.

  4. #4
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLIPPERY PIZZA
    Thanks Rambo, appreciate the reply.
    No problem for me to do a rebuild if needed ,thanks for the offer.
    Where do I go for parts(Peugeot or non genuine) our local Pug bloke is an extortionist. Are there rebuild kits out there ?? Just my quick thoughts if it is a full rebuild : Go up to the 2.8 or can I go to 3.0L with different pots & cranks. Do the pots go straight in or do you bore the block(for the 2.8L).
    350 holley, injection or the 3 bl weber & correct manifold(any idea of price for the weber setup & who has one). electronic ignition, unleaded valves & maybe bigger size?? Don't touch the cams unless they are worn ??, Has anyone come up with extractors for these motors, have seen a lot of ideas on this site about this problem.
    Have read a lot of your posts on 604's will read more of them to come up to speed and save wasting space with more posts, just put the above thoughts here as this seems to be the way to go.

    Thanks.

    grab a 2850 volvo engine with around 200k on it and strip it down

    the block will most probably be corroded

    grab the pistons and liners out of it and the cams

    you will need to machine the 604 block out to suit the 91mm liners

    gaskets, bearings, chains and guides are easy to obtain and fairly cheap

    from the volvo engine you will also get the electronic dissy if you want to go down that track and most probably the injection system as well

    now you can use the volvo heads with the injection or you can modify the manifold to fit the injectors in it and keep the 604 heads

    the 2850 volvos have better camshafts then the 604's especially if you get an 80 or 81 model engine

    beware though you will need to run pulp in it at all times

    now the other trap is you will need to also get 91mm liner seals and they can be expensive

    the best bet here is to get whoever is going to machine your block to get them to machine it so that the liners sit .05 above the deck height, that way you can buy the 6 thickest liner seals and pop them in and be done with it

    beware that through volvo you will pay $15 per seal

    as for valves all PRV's have suitable valves and seats for unleaded

    now then i may be able to get a new piston/liner set for the 2850 for a good price but i do know that at one time i priced them through volvo they wanted around $6-800ea, that's right per piston/liner

    i'll enquire for you though if you are interested otherwise 2850 volvo engines can normally be had for next to nothing

    now there is a place in victoria that can do rings for them so keep that in mind

    hope that gives you a bit of a heads up
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  5. #5
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    'rambo... just to clarify... is that .05 inches or millimetres?

    Another point, though it might not be relevant now, it used to be that some parts for these engines were cheaper from Volvo, some were cheaper as Pug parts.

  6. #6
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    'rambo... just to clarify... is that .05 inches or millimetres?

    Another point, though it might not be relevant now, it used to be that some parts for these engines were cheaper from Volvo, some were cheaper as Pug parts.

    it's in metric

    for quite a while now the parts for these engines from volvo have been very expensive unless you can find a dealer with some old stock lying around

    the cheapest way to get volvo parts is to grab an engine from a volvo
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    Wouldn't you just use the 2850 Volvo block with the Pug lower section of the block so the mounts would fit to save machining the liner holes.

    I am currently getting parts together to build a 3L even fire V6 for my Alpine.(Std 2450cc)
    Using a late 760 Volvo block and crank with 93mm Alpine A610 pistons, but using Renault 25 V6 Turbo for the lower section of the block and various other parts. The 93mm liners go straight in to a 91mm liner block.

    The Volvo head, block and crank are excellent order. I will probably be using the Volvo cams and whatever other Volvo bits that are deemed to be better.

    I have a set of used, but in nice condition 91mm pistons and sleeves that I will sell at $200 plus postage. The pistons have a raised section in the centre and valve and spark plug reliefs. The gudgeons are fully floating (held in with circlips)so no damage to the piston will result in removing the rods.

    My genuine A610 pistons and sleeves cost $1800 even at the right price by comparison.
    '56 Renault 750 (16TS Power)
    '62 Renault Dauphine Gordini
    '89 Renault Alpine GTA V6 Turbo
    02 and 03 Renault Clios 1.4L
    '13 Renault Megane RS265 Trophee +

  8. #8
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    How is the line boring of the crank tunnel when you bolt up non-original crankcase parts? I would have thought they were mated and bored, always to remain together?

    I'm also sure 'rambo rejects the use of a Volvo block because so many of them are so badly corroded.

  9. #9
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    most volvo blocks are corroded so i just bore out a good 604 block

    as for the lower crankcase all it does is holds the bearing caps in place so you don't need to fear about the crank bieng out

    it doesn't take much to bore a 604 block out to suit and it is a better option than machining the liners as you would only end up with around a 60thou wall thickness

    not a lot of margin
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  10. #10
    Member SLIPPERY PIZZA's Avatar
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    Icon14

    Thanks Alan, it's good to know that you have a set of 91mm liners. Your latest Engine Build sounds like where I want to go,IE: 93 mm liners- I assume that with boring the block they will go in OK??
    I am an old hand at building motors but new to these PRV'S, so i want to collect as much info as I can before I rebuild.
    In all the PRV info I've been reading there exists an 83mm crank(605 or Renault I think) -will this fit my 2664 oddfire block??
    Another thing is that I believe in good breathing on any engine, so what can be done with the exhaust manifolds(larger ones) extractors don't exist? some one said there is a bigger system on one of the other PRV'S???
    Also the Holley 350 sounds good -why can't you leave the single solex in place & work it in to the system(after all it is another venturi -more air & fuel when needed???). With a bit of fabrication & machining the inlet manifold could be made to accept a 4 Barrel, suitably jetted!! I think Rambo has plans to put a 4 Barrel on one of his. Has anyone out there got a 4 barrel on their 604??
    The Volvo cams are apparently better from what you guy's have said -is it a warmer grind or strength & trueness etc etc.
    One thing I should say is that I am not looking to get the most out of this motor just a "Nice Drive".
    Nearly finished rambling _ you will like this one- saw a Renault 25 the other day (at a distance - been rolled) - they had a later model V6 in some of them?? - is this worth a thought in my plans , are they better, do they fit etc .etc.
    Finally finished thanks for your time.

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    My 93mm liners fit straight into the 91mm block. My big evenfire crank is 73mm which is the same as the oddfire 604 one in stroke. The std evenfire Alpine Turbo crank is 63mm. With the 73mm crank and 93mm bore, 2975cc is the result.

    With a decent ball bearing turbo, 2975cc, a touch more boost, bigger injectors, bigger cams and exhaust and a Motec to run the show, I will hopefully see around 300 Hp, and hopefully keep the driveability by not going for a big turbo. This will be done over the next six months as finances allow.

    R25s with the V6 are very rare, as are 605s in Aus. The Cit XM also has the evenfire V6, and of course the late Volvo 760.
    Last edited by alan moore; 19th June 2005 at 08:24 PM.
    '56 Renault 750 (16TS Power)
    '62 Renault Dauphine Gordini
    '89 Renault Alpine GTA V6 Turbo
    02 and 03 Renault Clios 1.4L
    '13 Renault Megane RS265 Trophee +

  12. #12
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLIPPERY PIZZA
    Thanks Alan, it's good to know that you have a set of 91mm liners. Your latest Engine Build sounds like where I want to go,IE: 93 mm liners- I assume that with boring the block they will go in OK??
    I am an old hand at building motors but new to these PRV'S, so i want to collect as much info as I can before I rebuild.
    In all the PRV info I've been reading there exists an 83mm crank(605 or Renault I think) -will this fit my 2664 oddfire block??
    Another thing is that I believe in good breathing on any engine, so what can be done with the exhaust manifolds(larger ones) extractors don't exist? some one said there is a bigger system on one of the other PRV'S???
    Also the Holley 350 sounds good -why can't you leave the single solex in place & work it in to the system(after all it is another venturi -more air & fuel when needed???). With a bit of fabrication & machining the inlet manifold could be made to accept a 4 Barrel, suitably jetted!! I think Rambo has plans to put a 4 Barrel on one of his. Has anyone out there got a 4 barrel on their 604??
    The Volvo cams are apparently better from what you guy's have said -is it a warmer grind or strength & trueness etc etc.
    One thing I should say is that I am not looking to get the most out of this motor just a "Nice Drive".
    Nearly finished rambling _ you will like this one- saw a Renault 25 the other day (at a distance - been rolled) - they had a later model V6 in some of them?? - is this worth a thought in my plans , are they better, do they fit etc .etc.
    Finally finished thanks for your time.

    you should be able to stick with the original crank but i am sure the even fire crank fits in the block

    you will be able to fit the 93mm sleeves in the 604 block but you will need to bore the block out to do so as i did to fit the 91mm sleeves in

    standard crank and 91mm pots will get you 2849cc

    gaskets you can get from carravelle in victoria

    liner seals you need to get from a volvo wrecker in vic as well and i will get the number for you but if you are going to machine the block then do as i did and get it machined so that each liner sits a little proud of the block to start with as i mentioned above

    if you go for the high top volvo pistons and volvo cams you will have to run pulp, preferably 98octane to prevent pinging

    you can run 95 but water injection is needed as the motor will ping when hot

    standard unleaded i wouldn't even think about putting in the car
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  13. #13
    Member SLIPPERY PIZZA's Avatar
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    Icon14

    Thanks Rambo, Iv'e nearly worked out the plan for this motor, would still like to know about the other things I mentioned if you could post here .
    The 83 mm crank?, the holley & solex working together?, the Volvo cams?,& the four barrel?. I have pretty well decide after reading various posts here that the exhaust manifold question may not be an issue as some knowledgble gentleman said here ,after all it is only breathing for 1 cylinder @ a time and there are 2 on the motor, even some of the new cars with a straight 6 I reckon would have a far worse exhaust gas flow problem.
    Will definitely be putting the water injection on not only the 604 but all my vehicles.
    Thanks again to all who have helped with the plans for my "Nice Drive".

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