BA10/5 gearbox oil?
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! 505604's Avatar
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    BA10/5 gearbox oil?

    Hi

    I've always used a 15W40 or similar oil in my BA10 gearbox (and other Pug manual boxes) but while talking to an experienced Pug mechanic, he suggested that I use Penrite Transaxle oil 80W85.

    Anyone with ideas for me before I install the rebuilt box into my 604TD?

    Thanks

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    Andrew
    Current cars: Peugeot 307 HDi Touring; Peugeot 306 Cabriolet; Peugeot 406 HDi, Peugeot 505 Familiale
    Previous cars: 1965 Peugeot 404; 1972 Renault 16TS; 1970 Peugeo 504 1800; 1978 Peugeot 504 GL; 1976 Peugeot 504 LTI; 1984 Peugeot 505 Familiale; 1982 Peugeot 604 (converted to TD) 1999 Peugeot 306 Cabriolet (better car than the 2002 model we replaced it with)

  2. #2
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    andrew
    keep using 10/40 engine oil in the box please
    peugeot has gone to a lot of trouble to work out what oil is good for their boxes and have designed their boxes as such and they decided that people should run 10/40 engine oil in them
    this is the oil that i have run in all mine for years and have never had any trouble with them and i am not about to veer of this path
    i did have one box that was getting a little tired and sticky when cold and i used to run 25% trans oil in this one and it still ran fine for a very long time after this (i actually sold the car with the box still in it and never heard anymore about it)
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  3. #3
    nJm
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    Hmm, I've got the same gearbox and others on this board have recommended that I put semi-synthetic oil in it next time I change the oil...
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  4. #4
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    semi synthetic is fine so long as you are running 10/40 or 15/40 grade oil in them
    please don't go against what the manufacturer has stated to use in their boxes
    they have spent a lot of time money and effort in working out what oil is right
    if they decided that a heavier grade oil or gear oil is needed in their boxes they would have stated so
    there are some very fine roller bearings in these boxes that need oil and running the oil they state allows these bearings to recieve the amount they need when they need it
    i am sure peugeot could come up with more substantial reasons as to why they state that engine oil is to be used
    save the gear oil for your diffs unless you have a worm drive then run vegetable based oil or you won't have a diff for long
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I've had good results with 10w40 Mobil Synth S semi-synthetic oil.

    I have used 80 grade gear oil in the 4 speed BA7 to slow the leaking down, without any ill effects, but in the BA10 5 speed I find that thick oil makes the shifting too stiff and probably does the synchronisers no good as a result. There's also the potential problem of the needle rollers starving of oil, which Pugrambo mentioned, which I agree with completely. This is a particular problem with the Borg Warner T-5 when people stick normal gear-oil in them.

    Dave

  6. #6
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Why would that be, David?

    The gear oil is the same viscosity as the engine oil... it must therefore run into the bearings just the same?

  7. #7
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    this comes up everytime oil is mentioned
    the grade of oil 10,40,80 is the viscosity of the oil
    the higher the number the "thicker" it is
    multi grade has additives in it to "act" like the lower number when cold and the higher number when at running temp
    heat different grades of oil to running temp and see how they "run"
    you will find that engine oil will always run more than 80W oil
    rule of thumb time
    the slower a gearbox runs the higher the grade of oil hence a pug gearbox runs 10/40 oil and a diff 80W
    other manufacturers run different oils but that is what their engineeers have arrived at for their boxes
    Mr peugeot has worked out over a few years now of making their boxes that the BA7 and 10 need engine oil
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  8. #8
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    Engine oil and trans oil are rated differently.
    A 40 engine oil is about equivalent in viscosity to an 80 trans oil, this info was gained from an Shell engineer.

    Graham Wallis

  9. #9
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Thank you, Graham...

  10. #10
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    how are they rated differently ?
    a viscosity index is a standard oil measurement
    please explain as this goes against what i have learnt in all the years i have been a fitter and machinist playing with basically nothing but gearboxes and oils all that time
    the only thing i can see to bieng rated differently is that engine oil has additives to keep contaminants suspended
    straight out of the bottle 80W gear oil is noticeably thicker than 10W/40W engine oil
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  11. #11
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    this is an email directly from shell australia that i though i might share with you all

    In an attempt to put the viscosity scales on a common benchmark the 80W
    transmsision oil would be in the order of 50 -60 c.St at 40^C or approx 7.5
    c.ST @ 100 ^C (ie SAE 20) conversely the 20W-40 is approx 14.4 c.St @ 100^C
    . Therefore the viscosities vary by almost a factor of 2X.
    Regards
    Alan Dawson

    i hope this clears a few things up for people
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  12. #12
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    Out of the bottle (room temperature) 10-40 engine oil has a rating of 10 so it should seem thinner than 80 transmission oil if this is equivalent to 40.
    We probably need a clearer explanation for someone in the industry!

    Graham Wallis

  13. #13
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    My information comes from Cadillac Oils...

  14. #14
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    mind you the information i recieved from shell was similiar to the information i recieved a while ago from Bel-Ray lubricants as well
    the info above from shell basically states that 20/40 oil compared to 80W oil will run twice as far on the test table when testing viscosity
    has anybody ever seen how they test this ?
    let me know if not and i will explain it to you
    regards
    sean white
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger!
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    The 80w90 gear oil which I've used is noticeably thicker when poured or sucked into a large syringe, than engine oil.

    I have to say, though, that when I used it in gearboxes it only made the shifting stiffer when cold. When warm it felt the same as with engine oil, so I guess that kind of makes sense if, as some have said, it's only the low temp viscosity which is supposed to be different. I'm no expert.

    Dave

    <small>[ 16 August 2002, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: fiveohs ]</small>

  16. #16
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I have some Cadillac 85/90 gear oil here that seems to pour just as thinly as 20w/50 engine oil...

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Had to clear this one up. The recognised standard for measuring viscosity of oil is SAE (Standard Automotive Engineers??). This relates to how much oil will flow through a given size orifice in a given period of time at a given pressure and temperature. May have missed a few givens but hopefully made my point. Some numbers that appear on lubricants that are not prefixed by SAE may relate to a different method/standard of measuring and therefore can not be directly compared. wink I have changed oil for lighter grades in the past and put in additives to compensate for the loss of load carrying properties (gives better synco action) going the other way makes no sense to me unless it is short term to slow a leak. frown
    Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten!

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! 505604's Avatar
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    I didn't want to start something like this when I asked what I thought was a simple question

    Andrew
    Current cars: Peugeot 307 HDi Touring; Peugeot 306 Cabriolet; Peugeot 406 HDi, Peugeot 505 Familiale
    Previous cars: 1965 Peugeot 404; 1972 Renault 16TS; 1970 Peugeo 504 1800; 1978 Peugeot 504 GL; 1976 Peugeot 504 LTI; 1984 Peugeot 505 Familiale; 1982 Peugeot 604 (converted to TD) 1999 Peugeot 306 Cabriolet (better car than the 2002 model we replaced it with)

  19. #19
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Maybe the question isn't so simple?

  20. #20
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    Today I saw a container of Castrol 70/80 transmission oil which said that it was equivalent to 20/30 engine oil in viscosity.

    Graham Wallis

  21. #21
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    GRAHAM WALLIS:
    Today I saw a container of Castrol 70/80 transmission oil which said that it was equivalent to 20/30 engine oil in viscosity.

    Graham Wallis
    graham
    please read my earlier post with the email direct from shell
    maybe castrol grade their oil on a different scale from the SAE standard
    all i know is that i have always run GTX engine oil in all my 4 and 5 spd boxes and never had a drama with any of them and most of them were driven and i mean driven
    these days i take things a lot easier
    i must admit pugs have done me well with the way i used to treat them
    they were mostly driven pretty hard in my earlier days
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

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