Bad vibrations GTi6
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Stone Free's Avatar
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    Default Bad vibrations GTi6

    I'm having some problems with the 6. It's nothing I can't live with but I am dreading what this will cost to fix. There is a vibration that runs through the car at around 75-80kph and only when I am putting the power down, crusing at that speed is still smooth. THe vibration feels like an unbalanced wheel, but I fear that it is not this due to its inconsistancy. Is this an engine mount/gearbox mount issue or something more sinister like a driveshaft??

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    The AWARD WINNING 1998 Blaze Yellow 306 GTi6


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    "I enjoy telling people what to do, because I am an arrogant rock star. That's what I do. That's my job." Gene Simmons, ROCK SCHOOL.

  2. #2
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    With that speed, I'd be looking at wheel balance fist... how about you put your spare on one corner after another and go for a drive with it in each position?

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Stone Free's Avatar
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    But that would be inconsistent with the fact that it doesn't happen at that speed all the time, only when I am accelerating. How would a wheel suddenly become unbalanced anyway?? The car also pulls to one side when I come to stop, don't know if this has anything to do with it or the brakes.
    The AWARD WINNING 1998 Blaze Yellow 306 GTi6


    ......and a Series 3 205GTi on the side.



    "I enjoy telling people what to do, because I am an arrogant rock star. That's what I do. That's my job." Gene Simmons, ROCK SCHOOL.

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Again, you didn't say that at first...

    When people come on here and ask if anyone can solve a problem for them, they should give all relevant details. This fact could indicate it's something different.

    Look for ball joint wear in the steering, particularly. Jack up one wheel and have a serious fore-aft wiggle of it and observe where the movement is.

    This might well not be a vibration but a movement of the wheel in that unchecked bit of movement. If it's not a tie rod end or the ball joint on the steering rack, look further abroad.
    Last edited by Ray Bell; 31st May 2005 at 03:46 PM.

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Stone Free's Avatar
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    THanks for your input Ray, all I know is that it is going to be $$$$$ come next service.
    The AWARD WINNING 1998 Blaze Yellow 306 GTi6


    ......and a Series 3 205GTi on the side.



    "I enjoy telling people what to do, because I am an arrogant rock star. That's what I do. That's my job." Gene Simmons, ROCK SCHOOL.

  6. #6
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    I'm having some problems with the 6. It's nothing I can't live with but I am dreading what this will cost to fix. There is a vibration that runs through the car at around 75-80kph and only when I am putting the power down, crusing at that speed is still smooth. THe vibration feels like an unbalanced wheel, but I fear that it is not this due to its inconsistancy. Is this an engine mount/gearbox mount issue or something more sinister like a driveshaft??"

    I believe you provided suffcient detail upfront, that would allow people to provide a postive non-patronising comment.

    As it appears to be purely under load/acceleration, suggest that you investigate engine mount/gearbox mount, as as well as loose exhaust rubber mountings, in case it is vibrating under load.

    Perhaps mufflers/CAT themselves might be the cause and doesn't always show up in cruising mode.

    Regards,

    Scott 505 GTI

  7. #7
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I don't think it was a 'patronising' response, Scott... merely expressing the fact that it's hard enough sussing out the problem from afar without the complication of not having the full details.

    I've noticed a few questions the last few days that have been similar...

    I'm eager to help people, but without the right information we could actually guide someone down a path that costs them much more than they need to spend.

  8. #8
    Member Lightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    I don't think it was a 'patronising' response, Scott... merely expressing the fact that it's hard enough sussing out the problem from afar without the complication of not having the full details.

    I've noticed a few questions the last few days that have been similar...

    I'm eager to help people, but without the right information we could actually guide someone down a path that costs them much more than they need to spend.
    The more facts the better thats what I say!

    I seem to recall that I used to get vibration at a certain speed in the 6 at 75/80 mph from memory. Got the wheels balanced and problem was gone. The hard part is finding someone that can balance them properly as they don't have the whole in the middile like most alloys and so I am told are a bit harder to balance (if you don't have the right equipment).

    Anyway let me know what happens.
    Toast, the best thing since sliced bread!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    I don't think it was a 'patronising' response, Scott... merely expressing the fact that it's hard enough sussing out the problem from afar without the complication of not having the full details.

    I've noticed a few questions the last few days that have been similar...

    I'm eager to help people, but without the right information we could actually guide someone down a path that costs them much more than they need to spend.
    Fair enough Ray, if you don't think it was.

    The key point I was attempting to make was the key information was in fact intially provided and in good faith it would seem........the key point that the vibration occurs under acceleration and not coasting for the particular speed.

    My money is still on the engine mount or exhaust mounts for what it is worth. As the engine loads up under acceleration against the mounts all sorts of vibrations are possible via the engine mounts and exhaust mounts if they are is not up to spec. Could simply be that the mounts are loose or fatigued.

    I would tend to rule out wheel vibrations as it appears that it is not happening during cruise.

    Regards,

    Scott

    Regards,

    Scott

  10. #10
    Gone Fishin' Haakon's Avatar
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    My 406 ST (same motor) has a similar problem - vibrations under load at those sort of speeds, but only a bit annoying at this point and not all the time. I have assumed rear engine mount, especially as the gearstick moves about quite a bit of rough roads. Definantly not wheel balance - had plenty of those and know what that feels like

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stone Free
    I'm having some problems with the 6. It's nothing I can't live with but I am dreading what this will cost to fix. There is a vibration that runs through the car at around 75-80kph and only when I am putting the power down, crusing at that speed is still smooth. THe vibration feels like an unbalanced wheel, but I fear that it is not this due to its inconsistancy. Is this an engine mount/gearbox mount issue or something more sinister like a driveshaft??
    Stoney, when you say you feel a vibration through the car, can you elaborate? As in, does it feel like it's coming predominantly from the chassis, and if so, from the front, centre, and underneath the car etc? Or can you feel the vibration significantly through the wheel?

    As Scott pointed out, the fact that it doesn't occur during acceleration, doesn't sound like a wheel balance issue. I've had that a wheel out of balance and it occurs at a particular speed, full stop.

    Also, does it get worse the harder you accelerate? And does it disappear above and below those speed ranges even when you're still accelerating?
    Take the long way home....

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  12. #12
    Gone Fishin' Haakon's Avatar
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    I think he descibed it pretty well, but maybe because I know what it feels like... It feels like a mount on its way out transfering driveline vibration onto the subframe more than it should. Pug motors are not the smoothest things about, and have pretty soggy mounts to compensate - hence vibration when the mount stops isolating the driveline. I will put up with mine until the next cambelt change, unless it totally shags itself in the meantime...

    It only happens under load - ie when the motor is straining against its mounts. Light throttle and cruising is all smooth.

  13. #13
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    Normally I wouldn't post here, not having a clue about Pugs but the topic seemed familiar when I read the problem.

    Could it be a broken or loose engine mount as described in this old thread?

    306 XSi Engine Mount

  14. #14
    Gone Fishin' Haakon's Avatar
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    yikes! I hope this is confined to 306s.... Maybe i better put it up on the ramps and have a gander. Have been noticing a bit of driveline shunt coming on and off the power... Its just a pain that the bloody driveshaft has to come out to replace the mount.....

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    I am also 'monitoring' my VW Caravelle for a simliar issue. Under full load/torque, I get a slight vibration at bang on 2700 to 2900RPM. Interesting point in the old thread about the exhaust flange not quite mating up as a potential source of vibration.

    I am going to check the gasket between the engine pipe and CAT pipe flanges to see of there is gap, or metal to metal mating. It might solve this niggling problem by adding an extra (or replacing) flange gasket to fully compensate and hopefully get rid of the vibration.

    On the caravelle, (2000 T4 model), there is also a 'lever' attached to the engine pipe that bears up against a rubber block (fixed to the chassis), presumably to assist in limiting the torsional movement under load, as the engine pipe pivots freely when not connected to the CAT pipe. The lever stops movement beyond a certain point. This rubber block may also be the culprit, as it would cop a lot of torsional brunt, and may be vibrating against the metal insert into the rubber block that joins to the chassis (ie lever has torn through the rubber block to meet the metal insert.)....new rubber block required.

    Otherwise I will go searching for engine mount issues!!

    Scott

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Stone Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon

    It only happens under load - ie when the motor is straining against its mounts. Light throttle and cruising is all smooth.

    Thanks for all of your responses for this. I'm touched!

    Haakon, yeah, light throttle and cruising is all smooth still. The vibration comes mostly through the gear stick and through the rest of the car, not really through the steering wheel. I don't know if I can leave this for any length of time as I won't be able to get to a mechanic for a couple of weeks.

    It's been behaving like this for a month or so now, without getting noticably worse.
    The AWARD WINNING 1998 Blaze Yellow 306 GTi6


    ......and a Series 3 205GTi on the side.



    "I enjoy telling people what to do, because I am an arrogant rock star. That's what I do. That's my job." Gene Simmons, ROCK SCHOOL.

  17. #17
    Member flyNxsi's Avatar
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    if it is a engine mount it usually is the top one on the drivers side. they have a habit of working loose and making a deep buzzing sound when giving it a boot. if it aint broken then u lift the car up on that edge, support the motor from the sump,lower the car a bit,take the arm off from the mount too the engine, then with a hammer and long thick srew driver (preferably a flat blade) hit the cut outs clockwise til it stops spining. to check if its loose befor doing this have som1 in the car, u looking at the mount and have them WITH THE HANDBRAKE ON select 1st and work the clutch on and off too make the engine jerk. if the round bit moves alot or makes a thuding sound then go for it or take too som1. remember im not saying it is the mount,just a sugestion!
    i speed up for round abouts,corners and chikanes

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Stone Free's Avatar
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    This has nothing to do with the thread, but fly, what rims are they on your avatar?? They look like the gti180 rims. sweet.
    The AWARD WINNING 1998 Blaze Yellow 306 GTi6


    ......and a Series 3 205GTi on the side.



    "I enjoy telling people what to do, because I am an arrogant rock star. That's what I do. That's my job." Gene Simmons, ROCK SCHOOL.

  19. #19
    Member flyNxsi's Avatar
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    yep, with near new p7000s. got them for $500.still pinching myself a month later
    i speed up for round abouts,corners and chikanes

  20. #20
    Member QIK-516's Avatar
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    Fly you got a bargain, i am so jealous Have been trying to track a set down for ages but haven't had any luck let alone that cheap!!

    Were they a straight fit? (i.e no rubbing etc)
    S16 ownership is like a fine french wine, perfection personified

  21. #21
    Member flyNxsi's Avatar
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    thanks. the front is sweet but the back sits a little close too the plastic inner guard and scrubs a little on bumps and hard turns so ive,for the moment, takin them out too save the plastic. no scrubing issues with them out. ive got spacers too make some clearance but its hard too find longer bolts too make it all work safely.original bolts dont have enuf length too hold on with the spacers.
    i speed up for round abouts,corners and chikanes

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