Gti138 Wheels and Lowering
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  1. #1
    Tadpole Fro-Daddy's Avatar
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    Icon4 Gti138 Wheels and Lowering

    ok, i know the stud pattern is 4x98 which kinda sux, i aint seen any wheels in this pcd yet would regular wheel/tyre shops stock them?

    tempe tyres dont have peugeot in their list! i am after some lightweight 17's...


    also, i would like to lower the car, but being as it is 110mm off the ground already, normal lowering springs would make it illegal (30-35mm drop), are there any spring that will only lower 10mm? i know this seems like apointless lowering, but it would make a difference...

    also (again i know ), would regular kings springs increase or decrease thehandling abily of the car? obviously itd have a lower centre of gravity but everyone says these handle superb, so i thought they might have decent springs in them...

    that is all...for now

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! 206 RC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro-Daddy
    ok, i know the stud pattern is 4x98 which kinda sux, i aint seen any wheels in this pcd yet would regular wheel/tyre shops stock them?

    tempe tyres dont have peugeot in their list! i am after some lightweight 17's...


    also, i would like to lower the car, but being as it is 110mm off the ground already, normal lowering springs would make it illegal (30-35mm drop), are there any spring that will only lower 10mm? i know this seems like apointless lowering, but it would make a difference...

    also (again i know ), would regular kings springs increase or decrease thehandling abily of the car? obviously itd have a lower centre of gravity but everyone says these handle superb, so i thought they might have decent springs in them...

    that is all...for now
    If I were you, I would take the car out and actually use it before thinking about all of this. You may find that lowering the ride actually decreases the enjoyment. If after driving your new 206GTi you are unhappy, then look at these mods.
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  3. #3
    XTC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro-Daddy
    ok, i know the stud pattern is 4x98 which kinda sux, i aint seen any wheels in this pcd yet would regular wheel/tyre shops stock them?
    206 is 4x108

    See http://www.206gti.net/faq/#45

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    "Be aware that we can't guarantee 100% accuracy on everything, so check before going ahead with anything, we can't be held responsible. Also, some comments on the specifications may not be accurate for every part of the world. The 206GTi.net FAQ Team "

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  4. #4
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    Fro, before you possibly waste your money on this understand how wheel alighnment/geometry works. The manufacturers aren't idiots. To achieve a different ride/handling balance you must understand or find someone who understands all of this. (many cowboys out there). Not to do this right might ruin your ride and actually decrease handling. Not to speak of uneven tyre wear and an unsafer car.
    Many things can be done to let you increase g forces around corners but it has to be done with knowledge.
    Lowering by itself upsets things - as do changed offset rims, larger wheel, excessivly wider wheels and tyre diameter.

    Good Luck
    Last edited by JoBo; 30th May 2005 at 05:54 PM.

  5. #5
    I might be slow... DRTDVL's Avatar
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    if you take the car to a good alignment place also they can adjust the camber for you, would only recomend a degree or 2, this will wear the tyres a bit faster but you will get more grip in the corners... just be warn go to someone who knows what they are doing because you can serously mess with the cars handling if they don't know what they are doing...

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    Tadpole Fro-Daddy's Avatar
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    of course it 'may' reduce performance, but im after people who have done and can comment on it, just not rumours...

    it will not be a waste of money, as that is what i want to do...

    how can the car be 'unsafer'?

    i would keep 205 tyres most prolly...and over cirsumference would change a few mm, and the speedo will not be out by much at all...maybe 3km, i will have to check again...

  7. #7
    I might be slow... DRTDVL's Avatar
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    i had the camber, suspension, wheels, and a few other things done to my old 205 and it took a while before we got it handling they way i wanted it.

    If you get adjustable suspension everytime you make an adjustment to the suspension you need to have the wheel alignment done to compensate for the change...

    If you add a strut brace this will also effect the car, it all depends on how much time and money you are willing to spend to set the car up to how you like it...

    It also will vary depending on your driving style, my setup could feel like crap to you, and visa versa... there is no one magic setting for everyone.

    The stiffer the suspension the more it will just snap loose in a corner once you hit the limit of grip. generally at higher speeds..
    Last edited by DRTDVL; 30th May 2005 at 06:09 PM.

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    Member flyNxsi's Avatar
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    just so you know the rear cant be adjusted. unless u go and hit a gutter and bend the arms. not suggested. the front aint much better,toe is the only thing you can adjust standard. you mite be able too get adjustable strut tops for camber but dought unless u got aftermarket coil overs. dont qoute me on this info. i lowered my 306 and have 17s. only lowered a inch roughly all round. handling puts alota cars too shame. but i have herd of people lowering the rear of the 306 (same setup as 206) too far too the point where there was little travel and when going through a corner hard and going over a bump it would unsettle the car too the point it changed directions. be warnd! ive had mine fish tailing a couple times almost turning it into the Delorian from "back too the future" when flying! that was with standard height too! mostly my reckless driving at fault
    i speed up for round abouts,corners and chikanes

  9. #9
    I might be slow... DRTDVL's Avatar
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    you will also want to make sure you stick to the top level manufactures, as the standard setup of the pug's is so good that you can actually worsen the handling by puting 2nd tier products into the car...

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    Fellow Frogger! Bluey's Avatar
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    Fro, before you possibly waste your money on this understand how wheel alighnment/geometry works. The manufacturers aren't idiots. To achieve a different ride/handling balance you must understand or find someone who understands all of this. (many cowboys out there). Not to do this right might ruin your ride and actually decrease handling. Not to speak of uneven tyre wear and an unsafer car.
    Many things can be done to let you increase g forces around corners but it has to be done with knowledge.
    Lowering by itself upsets things - as do changed offset rims, larger wheel, excessivly wider wheels and tyre diameter.
    if you take the car to a good alignment place also they can adjust the camber for you, would only recomend a degree or 2, this will wear the tyres a bit faster but you will get more grip in the corners... just be warn go to someone who knows what they are doing because you can serously mess with the cars handling if they don't know what they are doing...
    Guys, he's getting larger rims and lowering the thing 10mm. Don't tell someone they have to reinvent the wheel.
    O.K. Starting from scratch,
    Lightweight Rims = O.Z, BBS, Dynamics, Speedline, Rays, Enkei - Magnesium if you can afford it.
    Things to make sure you do: *Make sure that the rims you choose weigh as much or less than the rims you are replacing.
    *Make sure the tyres you fit don't have a rolling radius greater than 105% of the standard tyres. Speedo will be more accurate than ever.
    *If you choose rims with the same width as the standard ones, retain the standard offset. If you choose wider rims, talk to someone about offset.
    *Eibach, buddy. No one in the Motorsport industry uses Kings because Eibach are guaranteed to retain their characteristics.
    The way springs are recorded in a manufacturer’s catalog is in dimensions, not for “such-n-such make & model”, so you should be able to get some straight off the shelf. Otherwise get some made.
    *Get springs with as like spring rate as standard. In reality, 10mm is not going to increase the chance of the springs bottoming out and there are bumpstops anyway.

    Shop around. Buy directly from the manufacturer. Buy the rims and tyres separate.
    The best way to find good cheap wheels is to find out what dimensions you need, i.e. offset, pcd etc, then cruise around every automotive internet forum in Aus looking for secondhand stuff or look on motorsport websites, (international & local). You might even find some cheap, used or unused, R-spec tyres to fit.
    “Unsafer” (choice vocab there fellas). Yes your car will cause more accidents and insurance hassles………….. for other people because they were staring at your car when they t-boned that XD/VK and not concentrating on the road.
    Don’t fit 17’s. Think of all the lives you’ll save.
    Ha ha!

  11. #11
    I might be slow... DRTDVL's Avatar
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    Sorry about that...

    Got a bit carried away... assignments are clouding my mind...

    I'd go for speedline if you could, they are the factory manufacture for the 205 gti wheels and funky... but thats my personal opinion..

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    XTC
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    Also you have the choice to lower the rear or not, if you go Eibachs that'd drop it 30-35mm .. then the rear will be up high, you can get the spline turned to drop it and some people opt not too, if you do though it will even out the car (looks wise), but I don't think it handles any better IMHO.

    Here's one that has been lowered front and rear.
    http://www.pccwa.org.au/events/20041...041114_005.jpg

    And other that has Eibachs up front and NO low lowered rear.
    http://www.206gti.net/wa/drive040503...013_scaled.jpg
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    Fellow Frogger! slick's Avatar
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    I'd like to hear from someone who started with standard 206 GTI wheels and upgraded to 17 inch wheels and thought it was a great non-aesthetic improvement...

    Everyone I've heard on the subject agree that they look better but the ride quality / handling is compromised. I've often considered getting 17 inch wheels for the 306 S16 when I first got it (first 6 months or so) but I've read a few posts in here and had a chat with a friend who owns a Renaul Cllio. He's actually sold the 17 inch wheels he upgraded to after he used up the new rubber he got. He put them up for sale in the trading post and returned to the factory alloys and simply bought better quality rubber. He's still going on about how much better the car drives and he did this nearly a year ago...There's no denying the larger alloys he had looked hot. They had some light scuffing when he first got them and he had them powdercoated properly. They looked really hot !
    1994 306 S16 sold but not forgotten
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro-Daddy
    of course it 'may' reduce performance, but im after people who have done and can comment on it, just not rumours...

    it will not be a waste of money, as that is what i want to do...

    how can the car be 'unsafer'?

    i would keep 205 tyres most prolly...and over cirsumference would change a few mm, and the speedo will not be out by much at all...maybe 3km, i will have to check again...
    You're better off getting factory 17" as everything will match.

    as for lowering, seriously think abou tit first, why would you buy a peugeot that's famous for the handling with the suspension setup and muck around with it ??

    also, if you're upping the spring rate, PLEASE change/uprate the shock absorbers, I can stress that enough after attending the defensive driving course seeing all those cars with lowered/stiffer springs that handles well but can't stop at allbecause the front load is too stiff there's no enough load on the front tyres to stop the car even at 60kmh !!! the distance is at least 1.5x more than it should be !!

    Jason
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  15. #15
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    as for wheel sizes 15" is optimum for handeling and availability of tyres, 17's astheticly look nice, but lets not forget the extra added weight, and cost of tyres

  16. #16
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    I've sorted the supension on my GTi and it's lots better than standard.
    I've got Eibach Pro Kit front springs, Bilstein Sport dampers and Peugeot Sport 21mm torsion bars.

    It does ride firmly and some potholes aren't nice at all...it actually makes you drive slower on rough roads it's that firm - i am talking about real bumpy roads though.

    The original handling on the GTi is a little sloppy. Not bad but easy to fault. It also dives too much under hard braking. With the new suspension it turns in a lot sharper so mid corner corrections are easier.
    If you take a corner too fast it still understeers and if you lift off the rear end will drift nicely.
    All i want to try now is a GTi 180 rear anti roll bar to make it a bit more oversteery. I dont know how good an idea this is on a road car though so i might get the front arb as well...I've also heard a front strut brace can have good results on a 206 too...shame the car has to be cut for one to fit it though.

    Do not drop the front anymore than 30mm. At a 30mm drop the front arms sit pretty much horizontal which is where they should be. And more and it also hits the bumpstops hard even at low speed on nasty bumps.
    On the rear you should be able to get away with a 40mm drop.

    Again anybody that tries to drop the rear to make the sills horizontal will ruin the suspension travel. The car is designed to sit higher at the back.

    As for increased stopping distances with uprated suspension then that's the first time i have ever heard that! Yes it will affect the weight transfer slightly but not noticably on a road car. Even uprated springs on road cars are actually fairly soft - try bouncing a car with 'stiff' springs that doesnt have dampers fitted.
    Uprated springs without uprated dampers wont do the ride or handling any good. They feel like a boat because the dampers can't dampen the energy in the new spring.
    Last edited by teddy; 31st May 2005 at 03:49 AM.

  17. #17
    Tadpole Fro-Daddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes
    as for wheel sizes 15" is optimum for handeling and availability of tyres, 17's astheticly look nice, but lets not forget the extra added weight, and cost of tyres

    gor 15's to be the best track tyre you must a strong tyre wall as these warp on smaller rims, so its easier for 17's on track use as you dont need a better wall coz there isnt as much to flex...


    and i dont want to lower it 30mm...i would like to keep it all legal (but modified) if possible...itll be while before i save up some more pennies now...and ill prolly mess with the stereo first, but ill see how i go...

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Definitely go for 15's for track work, unless you've got a huge budget. Some of the factory rims are heaps lighter than 17's.

    '92 205 Mi16
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  19. #19
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    Definitely go for 15's for track work, unless you've got a huge budget. Some of the factory rims are heaps lighter than 17's.
    ok then, 206 GTi factory rims:

    15" 7.6kg
    16" 10.1kg
    17" 8.4kg
    Regards,

    Simon

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  20. #20
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206
    ok then, 206 GTi factory rims:

    15" 7.6kg
    16" 10.1kg
    17" 8.4kg
    You're not trying hard enough. Look harder.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  21. #21
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    You're not trying hard enough. Look harder.
    Ok, Peter - I guess you were hinting at steelies

    I'm not sure if that is what Fro-Daddy was looking at, but yes, some 15" steel rims would definitely be classed as "light weight" - especially when comparing them to the factory alloys.
    Regards,

    Simon

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