Is there a starting sequence on the GTI-6?
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  1. #1
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Is there a starting sequence on the GTI-6?

    OK, time to check if I have wool over my eyes. When I bought the 306 GTI-6 from thelast owner he advised of a starting sequence, that the dealer had told him to do before starting the car. I've been following it, but am wondering if it is ACTUALLY required! Can you confirm for me?

    Sequence:
    Key in ignition turn to ACC
    Watch dash light up
    Watch needle pass half way on the oil pressure gauge.
    Start car
    Wait for flashing oil pressure gauge to stop flashing and needle to drop back to normal.
    Drive away.

    My recent instrument cluster replacement was caused by the pressure gauge not coming on all the time (still doesn't come on allthe time and now I have an odometer at 2000kms). For those who may not know, the pressure gauge is, apparently, the lit bar above the oil temperature gauge under the speedo.

    Your thoughts?

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    which garden path were you bieng led up ?
    i keep the old starting style i used to use for my 504TI or any car with an electric fuel pump
    turn the ignition on and count to 10 then start the car
    this gives time for fuel pressure to build up
    also the lit bar is oil level not pressure
    after the car has started the oil level guage reverts to oil temp guage
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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    From the manual:
    When the ignition is switched on, this indicates the oil LEVEL.
    The reading is only valid if vehicle is on level ground and the engine has been switched off for 10 minutes. ... Oil level indicator switches off approximately 15 seconds after starting the engine.

    Ok. that behind us... this actually is NOT oil pressure guage but rather oil TEMPERATURE guage. Oil pressure warning light is one of the lights on the cluster between indicators (looks like alladin's oil lamp).
    There is no reason to wait for the needle to pass the certain points on dash to start the car apart from:
    1. knowing you have oil in the engine
    2. to allow the fuel pressure to build up
    3. to allow computer to finish self check and get the reading from all engine sensors.

    I usually allow about5~10 secs for the engine to idle before driving off in the morning and take it easy to allow the oil to warm. It is pretty difficult to have a race in the pug when its cold anyhow thanks to that 2nd gear when cold. Can someone confirm if the reason its so difficult to select 2nd gear is because of straight cut (relatively) gears in the 6sp box?

    Anything I missed?

    cya
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    <small>[ 08 August 2002, 07:49 PM: Message edited by: tekkie ]</small>
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  4. #4
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    Basically as soon as I jump into the car, I put the key in and turn it to II.

    This allows the fuel pressure to build up (takes about 2 seconds - you can hear it when the pump stops).

    Once the engine's started (v quick), I let it idle until the ECU light goes off (and revs drop down to idle when this occurs - about another 2 seconds) - then I move off.

    Can't be hurting the car doing this, and by turning the key to II before I put my belt on, etc, this doesn't cost me any time.

    Cheers,

    Justin

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
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  5. #5
    nJm
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    I assume its different in a car with a carburettor? I don't even have an ECU clown

    I turn it to ON, so all my red "tell-tales" are lit up, push the accelerator pedal to the floor and hold it in the "start" position until it fires up, hold the revs at 2000rpm for a few seconds and then its fine.

    As this is my first carburettor car, please correct me if there is a better way to do it in these cars with the Solex carburettor.

    Cheers,

    Nick
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    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  6. #6
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    Is it normal to floor the throttle when starting a carburettor car?

    Can't be good with the engine spinning so quickly with next to no oil circulating around???

    Cheers,

    Justin

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
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  7. #7
    nJm
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    Hmm, well it never exceeds 3000rpm using that method.

    I believe it equalises the fuel/air mix?? Anyway, it seems to be easiest way to get it to start quickly.
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  8. #8
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    tekkie:


    I usually allow about5~10 secs for the engine to idle before driving off in the morning and take it easy to allow the oil to warm. It is pretty difficult to have a race in the pug when its cold anyhow thanks to that 2nd gear when cold. Can someone confirm if the reason its so difficult to select 2nd gear is because of straight cut (relatively) gears in the 6sp box?
    Do you mean 'select' or 'engage' 2nd gear? I never have a problem actually 'selecting' 2nd, but it never engages smoothly when cold - there's always a hestitation or jerkiness as I let the clutch out.

    As far as starting sequence is concerned, I don't have one at all. I rarely wait for the oil level guage to go off, usually just turn the key, fire and go

  9. #9
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Thank you all for your wonderfully informative replies. Admittedly I did not check the owner's manual on what that gauge meant, but it is what Asquith and Johnstone told me...so, as per previous comments on anything Trivett, big thumbs down on them! mallet

    As for the oil temp gauge, yes, I was aware this was the oil temp gauge, and stated as such in my first post. Just wanted to clarify that I'm not that stupid!

    Another question, I was browsing through my owner's manual yesterday and noticed that Petrol 306's are onlysupposed to be services every 30000kms. Is this true? I know the service log books have you servicing every 10000, but the manual says 20000 miles or 30000kms. Your thoughts?

    Thanks!

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  10. #10
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    My service interval is supposedly every 15000kms!

    Yet another inconsistency!

    Having said that, mine is a 1999 model, and I think they extended the service intervals for later models.

  11. #11
    rek
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    The service interval for MY2000-on 306s is every 20,000km; it goes something like

    10,000km -- basic check-up
    20,000km -- minor service
    30,000km -- basic check-up
    40,000km -- major service
    50,000km -- basic check-up
    60,000km -- minor service
    70,000km -- basic check-up
    80,000km -- major service + cambelt etc
    ... and then the cycle repeats.

    So you still end up taking the car in every 10,000km anyway. And with GTis the way they beg to be driven, IMO it's a good idea to get the oil changed at that time as well.

    Also with the GTi6's, the manual transmission oil should be replaced every 40,000km. This is different to most other modern Peugeot gearboxes which are either sealed for life or don't get flushed for a long while..

    As for starting sequence, mine goes something like this:

    1. set key to the on position, and put on seatbelt while fuel pressure etc builds up
    2. start car with the clutch pedal held down (saves a little stress on starter motor that way, as it only has to crank the engine, not engine+gearbox)
    3. change radio/climate controls while you wait 10 sec or so for everything to stabilise and generally be nice
    4. go
    5. nothing over 3500-4000rpm until oil temp is close to or at 90 degrees

    And yes, the 6 speed gearboxes are a bit of a bugbear when cold eh tongue (selecting for me, engaging is never a problem, especially after the new clutch cable)

    For some reason I find it so much better after you've warmed it up, stop somewhere for a few minutes (like say filling up at a petrol station) and starting it again. No idea why, but after that the shifter is like a knife through hot butter

    In my old carbied Toyota, I never applied full throttle when starting, unless it was having trouble. Usually had just a little pressure on the accelerator -- though this was probably because I was paranoid of flooding the engine
    Peter
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  12. #12
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    [quote]gtisinz:
    Originally posted by tekkie:
    [qb]

    Do you mean 'select' or 'engage' 2nd gear? I never have a problem actually 'selecting' 2nd, but it never engages smoothly when cold - there's always a hestitation or jerkiness as I let the clutch out.
    I actually have probs switching from 1st to 2nd. Once in 2nd its normal operation. This hesitation is only present when the car is cold. After about 1km all is fine.
    To better desribe the hesitiation would to be think of trying to select 1st gear in any car when it is still rolling slowly. It will eventually go in just not smoothly.
    And yeah re the starting. 5~10 secs would be the time for oil guage to revert to temp from level reading.



    <small>[ 09 August 2002, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: tekkie ]</small>
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  13. #13
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    In Europe, service intervals for Pugs are at 30,000km intervals - to be honest, I doubt any oil will be great after 30,000km (but I bet you they say 30k or 12 mths

    In regards to starting - I read in a magazine and on aus.cars that starting with the clutch is a bad thing - search at <a href="http://www.deja.com" target="_blank">www.deja.com</a> for the reason. It actually puts more strain on the starter motor.

    Cheers,

    Justin

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
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  14. #14
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    in the manual you should have an extra added page that states that in dusty countries that services are to carried out at 10000km's or real dusty 7500km's
    australia is considered to be a dusty country and hence services are set at 10000km intervals
    you can change these settings if you like on your dash (the little spanner)
    you can also reset this spanner after you do a service yourself as well so don't let anyone tell you that you need the car to get a pug dealer to reset the service indicator
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  15. #15
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    How do you reset the spanner and the intervals?

    I've just got used to seeing the spanner there all the time !!

  16. #16
    rek
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    Pug307:
    In regards to starting - I read in a magazine and on aus.cars that starting with the clutch is a bad thing - search at <a href="http://www.deja.com" target="_blank">www.deja.com</a> for the reason. It actually puts more strain on the starter motor.
    ahh, thanks; here it is: <a href="http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&th=ebd706c1d31581f1&seekm=3CE81715.6148F7F6%40ch evpower.zzn.com" target="_blank">http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8& oe=UTF-8&th=ebd706c1d31581f1&seekm=3CE81715.6148F7F6%40ch evpower.zzn.com</a>
    some interesting perspectives there.

    It sounds to me that the crankshaft end float "issue" would be something that happens at any time when the clutch is depressed while the engine is running, and isn't solely related to starting the car with the clutch in.

    Personally I almost always start with the clutch in, as it means there's no bunny-hopping into the wall/car parked infront/etc. if I forget to take the car out of gear before starting up

    Then again, I have a Ron Dennis-like obsession/paranoia to prevent problems from as many points as possible ... in my eyes, preventing a problem from two points is better than preventing it from just one, even if it is a bit of overkill :p

    (just like when I parallel park, I apply the handbrake, leave the transmission in gear, AND point the wheels so that if both systems happen to fail, the car will harmlessly roll into the kerb, rather than the middle of the road, or forward/back into another car. I've also caught myself looking both ways before crossing a one-way street sometimes tongue )

    <small>[ 09 August 2002, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: rek ]</small>
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  17. #17
    rek
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    gtisinz:
    How do you reset the spanner and the intervals?

    I've just got used to seeing the spanner there all the time !!
    it's in the owner's manual .. I don't have it at work; I'll check it and post when I get home.

    As pugrambo says, you can also change from where the service thingy counts down from; but there are only a few options I think (like a selection between 15, 20, or 40,000km or some such)
    Peter
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  18. #18
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    pugrambo:
    in the manual you should have an extra added page that states that in dusty countries that services are to carried out at 10000km's or real dusty 7500km's
    australia is considered to be a dusty country and hence services are set at 10000km intervals
    you can change these settings if you like on your dash (the little spanner)
    you can also reset this spanner after you do a service yourself as well so don't let anyone tell you that you need the car to get a pug dealer to reset the service indicator
    Yes says something about arduous conditions, just wasn't sure if suburban Sydney was considered arduous, or if the Australian distributor just wanted to generate more revenue for the dealerships...

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  19. #19
    rek
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    To change the countdown service interval

    1. Switch off the ignition.
    2. Press and hold the odometer reset button.
    3. Switch on the ignition.
    4. The display begins a 10 second countdown.
    5. Release the button before the countdown finishes.
    6. The service interval is displayed.
    7. Each brief press of the odometer reset button will alternate the service intervals.
    8. When the chosen service interval is displayed, press the odometer reset button for 10 seconds (countdown) to confirm.

    To reset the service indicator

    1. Switch off the ignition.
    2. Press and hold the odometer reset button.
    3. Switch on the ignition.
    4. The display begins a 10 second countdown.
    5. Keep the odometer reset button depressed for the 10 seconds.
    6. The display shows "= 0" and the service symbol disappears.
    Peter
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  20. #20
    rek
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    GTI124:
    Yes says something about arduous conditions, just wasn't sure if suburban Sydney was considered arduous, or if the Australian distributor just wanted to generate more revenue for the dealerships...
    Frequent short trips and inner-city/stop-start type driving is generally considered as an "arduous service condition".

    The service book of my old car had a list of all the things that are considered to require more frequent service intervals (many short trips, towing things, dusty conditions, and others I forget)

    <small>[ 09 August 2002, 07:30 PM: Message edited by: rek ]</small>
    Peter
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  21. #21
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    rek:
    GTI124:
    Yes says something about arduous conditions, just wasn't sure if suburban Sydney was considered arduous, or if the Australian distributor just wanted to generate more revenue for the dealerships...
    Frequent short trips and inner-city/stop-start type driving is generally considered as an "arduous service condition".

    The service book of my old car had a list of all the things that are considered to require more frequent service intervals (many short trips, towing things, dusty conditions, and others I forget)
    So Europe and the UK don't have traffic, don't do stop start driving, and don't have dust or tow things...hmmm...I still feel that the distributors are just trying to get more $$$ for their dealers. Sure parts of Oz are dusty, but stop start traffic is everywhere, especially in Paris! So how can a car that only need to be serviced every 20000 miles require more frequent servicing in Australia? I'm not saying I'm not in favour of looking after my GTI, but I just find it intersting that we are servicing our cars 3 times more often than in the UK...

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  22. #22
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    How do we service our cars 3x as much in Europe?

    They still have their intermediate checks, I believe.

    Cheers,

    Justin

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

  23. #23
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Pug307:
    How do we service our cars 3x as much in Europe?

    They still have their intermediate checks, I believe.

    Cheers,

    Justin
    Well if it's recommended in the Aussie Service log books to service the car every 10000kms, and according to the manual (which I am assuming is written for the UK) you only need to service them every 20000 miles or 30000 kilometres, then that would be 3x... The book quotes advances in semi synthetic and full synthetic oils as being the main reason why the servicing can be taken out to such long periods...

    As far as I can tell from the manual, the 30000 service is an intermediate, or A class service. Which looks like just a fluid change. Have I missed the section that says you should take it in every 10000kms for another fluid change, that appears to conflict the so called "advances in lubricants"...

    Maybe I'm just getting cynical! Feel free to bash me over the head, I don't mind at all

    Cheers, Lincoln
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  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger!
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    30,000kms is a long time between oil changes... I know Synthetic oil is good, but 30K is extreme
    Jason Judd
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  25. #25
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    The 10k, 30k, etc services are only checks.

    I'd hardly call them a service - basically a quick safety check - ie fluids, visual checks, etc.

    That's why they're free - except for any extra fluids required.

    I believe that in Europe they have these intermediate checks as well.

    Anyway, Peugeot's better than Renault in this respect. In Europe, the Renaults have 30k intervals. In Australia, it's a 10k interval.

    I wouldn't complain about having a 20k interval - you won't find many cars here that will have longer intervals.

    And, as Jason says, no oil is going to be that great after 30,000km. Even Mobil 1.

    Cheers,

    Justin

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
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