604 Fuel System Options
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  1. #1
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    Icon12 604 Fuel System Options

    Hi Everyubody,

    This is my first post to this forum and I'm impressed with everybody's knowledge and interest. I have a '79 604 PRV that I bought recently. I'd like to convert the existing two solex carburretors to some other type of fuel system. Switching to one two-barrel, dependable carburretor sounds good. I'm trying to keep my cost low and that is a consideration. Can somebody tell me specifically where I can get a suitable carburretor and manifold combination? I'm hoping for a simple bolt-on arrangement. I happen to be in the US where there are almost no 604s anymore and daily-driven Peugeots are rare. I also own a 504 D, two 505 station wagons and an R5.

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    I'm just learning about the PRV engine and the 604. It seems that parts are plentiful among Aussies and you have quite an enthusiast community.

    Anyway, any help somebody can give me on the 604, and my request in particular would be greatly appreciated.

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    mlb
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchfreak
    Hi Everyubody,

    This is my first post to this forum and I'm impressed with everybody's knowledge and interest. I have a '79 604 PRV that I bought recently. I'd like to convert the existing two solex carburretors to some other type of fuel system. Switching to one two-barrel, dependable carburretor sounds good. I'm trying to keep my cost low and that is a consideration. Can somebody tell me specifically where I can get a suitable carburretor and manifold combination? I'm hoping for a simple bolt-on arrangement. I happen to be in the US where there are almost no 604s anymore and daily-driven Peugeots are rare. I also own a 504 D, two 505 station wagons and an R5.

    I'm just learning about the PRV engine and the 604. It seems that parts are plentiful among Aussies and you have quite an enthusiast community.

    Anyway, any help somebody can give me on the 604, and my request in particular would be greatly appreciated.
    Now no doubt someone will correct me if I'm wrong. But I think they also came out with a 4 barrel Weber. Shouldn't be too hard to source, and it will bolt straight on - with the right manifold of course.

    'rambo should be able to give you a bit more information on this.

    Matt
    Fight for your opinions, but do not believe that they contain the whole truth, or the only truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlb
    Now no doubt someone will correct me if I'm wrong. But I think they also came out with a 4 barrel Weber. Shouldn't be too hard to source, and it will bolt straight on - with the right manifold of course.

    'rambo should be able to give you a bit more information on this.

    Matt
    They came out with a twin throat Weber. This was mainly found on the Renault R30. This gave less less outright power but better torque and was very reliable and smooth to drive. Ideally you need to get the Renault manifold as well
    The other good thing to fit is the electronic ignition from a Volvo 264.
    Over here there are currently plenty of 264s in Pick and Pull yards.
    Graham

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    There were two-barrell Webers came on this engine, at least on the Renaults... that's the manifold people look for...

    But you might even be better off converting it to LPG. I don't know what the marketing of automotive LPG is like in the US, but here it's about half the price (or less) of petrol and it actually makes more power and economy in the 604 engine according to all the people I've struck who've done the conversion.

    Induction systems off Volvo 264s and 265s (same basic engine) require the heads to be changed and are all fuel injection.

    And then the easy way... whack a 2-barrell Holley on the original manifold, blank off the front carby mount. Though if it were me, I'd rather try to adapt the twin SU setup from a Rover 3500.

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default 604 Fuel System...

    French Freak,
    As you live in the land of Holley, Ray's suggestion to go this way makes sense.
    The 604 manual shows a twin barrel Weber and manifold. If I recall it was for a basic low compression model for colonial government use?
    For some markets the Volvo PRV 6 had a single SU equipped engine.

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    the low comp engine (8.2:1) had a single twin throat weber all the others (8.65:1) had the twin solex carbies on 604's

    now the weber manifold is around but they are hard to find and they are the only manifold to use if you want the weber to work correctly

    the weber will work on the twin solex manifold but not as good

    the holley (350) will also work on the solex manifold with an adaptor plate

    mind you the twin solex's when setup right will run very well and give you very good economy

    the weber you want is a 38DGAS and is common in your land for jeep conversions

    if you have a gander at my website you will find info on how to set the solex carbies up

    the 4 barrel weber is a conversion that i would like to try down the track as having secondary throats will make the car more responsive up in the revs

    i wouldn't be too concerned about LPG/gas as they run very well on petrol and seem to go better on petrol in standard form over gas
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  7. #7
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    Default 604 carb

    Dear FF,
    I have run my 604 with a Holley 350 for 10 years. Then had the 604 converted to LPG for the last 8 years using the throttle body of the Holley. When I set up the Holley 350 in 1987 I did not touch anything on it til the LPG conversion 10 years later. LPG in Oz is 38o 50c a litre. The Holley maybe a bit thirsty on fuel but if not fiddled with is a very reliable carb. If you can get a Holley adaptor to suit an early GM small V8 the bolt pattern was the same as for the Solex if I remember right. I might have filed the bolt holes a bit. But do file out the adaptor to suit the inlet manifold. Use the smallest cam for the fuel squirter (forgot the Holley name). The cam is white. I also used one of the smallest jets of which there are two. Don't use the 325 Holley. It strangles the motor. The 350 Holley is much better. The 604 runs really well on LPG. Cold starts are no problem and the motor idles at 600/700 rpm from cold. Then when warm idles goes up to 750 rpm. Basically with LPG when cold the motor runs as when warm no coughs,no choke. Just start and drive away. LPG in Oz is about one third the price of petrol. So for every two litres of LPG I use I save $1.50 instead of using petrol.


    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    the low comp engine (8.2:1) had a single twin throat weber all the others (8.65:1) had the twin solex carbies on 604's

    now the weber manifold is around but they are hard to find and they are the only manifold to use if you want the weber to work correctly

    the weber will work on the twin solex manifold but not as good

    the holley (350) will also work on the solex manifold with an adaptor plate

    mind you the twin solex's when setup right will run very well and give you very good economy

    the weber you want is a 38DGAS and is common in your land for jeep conversions

    if you have a gander at my website you will find info on how to set the solex carbies up

    the 4 barrel weber is a conversion that i would like to try down the track as having secondary throats will make the car more responsive up in the revs

    i wouldn't be too concerned about LPG/gas as they run very well on petrol and seem to go better on petrol in standard form over gas
    Steve V6 ..
    404,504Ti, 406SV.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i feel sorry for the oil pressure in the engine running at low revs

    best to bump that idle up if you plan on keeping the oil pressure up to every part of the engine
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  9. #9
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    Default Rpm

    I don't drive around at 600 to 700 rpm. Bit slow at that rpm.Only when the car starts. Then the idle goes up to 750 rpm when warm. The motor does get above 1000rpm when I drive. Even 3000 or 4000 rpm. The oil pressure light stays off. No flicker of the oil pressure light at 600 or 700 rpm. Been like that for 8 years now on LPG. How long before the engine gets a problem? Its only got 300,000 kms at the moment. Still goes fine except for a couple of oil leaks.

    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    i feel sorry for the oil pressure in the engine running at low revs

    best to bump that idle up if you plan on keeping the oil pressure up to every part of the engine
    Steve V6 ..
    404,504Ti, 406SV.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    don't let it idle too much

    the oil pressure isn't high enough to supply adequate oil protection in the engine

    there is a reason why that have a 900-950rpm idle spec

    the oil light won't light up till you hit around 3-400rpm or a lack of oil but by then you are already treading dangerous waters

    the oil supply is crucial for the top ends of these engines

    i can get mine as lumpy as it is to idle at 400rpm without the oil light lighting up and running petrol but it's not worth the damage it can cuase at those revs

    the 604 here doesn't get to do a lot of idling but when it does it is still at least 850-900rpm
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  11. #11
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Well, you're right about that, you wouldn't want to drive it all day like that... but Steve says that he doesn't, so all's well. Right?

    But is the flow really restricted? The volume would be the total volume the pump is producing, of course. There'd be no release through the pressure relief valve, so maybe there's actually more oil going to the top end.

    Glad to see there's another one here giving evidence of the efficacy of LPG on these engines.

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    Hello Steve and Everybody,

    Thanks for the great help and specifics! All things considered, a Holley conversion might be the best and most affordable way to go. I don't know that much about Holley carburretors. I was looking on ebay motors and found some possibilities. One is ebay item no. 7975150075, which is termed a "Holley Rochester Buick Olds Pontiac 350". Other interesting ones are nos. 7976022782 and 7976587470.

    As far as the adapter plate, maybe I should call Holley to see what is available? I searched ebay motors but didn't find anything. Do you happen to remember what small block Chevy V8 it was for?

    Also, might you happen to remember what you did with respect to your accelerator linkage / cable? Lastly, I have the GM automatic trans attached to my car and I think there is a kickdown cable attached to the accelerator cam wheel on the manifold.

    I know you converted to LPG but if you can remember anything else it would be great.

    Thanks to you and everybody!

    Frenchfreak

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I think the kickdown cable remains on the wheel... actually, that wheel is great for making up linkages to different carburettors.

    Steve, what are the performance details with the LPG? Everyone I've ever spoken to who's done this has come out on top all round...

  14. #14
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    Default 604 & Holley carb

    FF,
    For the kickdown cable I made a bracket and ran the kickdown cable thru that to the linkage on the Holley. With LPG the 604 performance is effected as if the air condition was on when on petrol. Yep a bit slower but not by much. The power comes on with the motor about 500rpm later than it did when on petrol. I don't go accelerating fast everywhere so it does not bother me. The 604 still keeps up with the front of the pack. But its really my wifes car and she did not notice any changes. If I want to really zoom around then I go in my 406 SV. That car gets to illegal speeds vvvery quickly. But that is not my type of driving. Actually tomorrow my wife and I are driving north in the 604 because it is a really nice car to go on long trips and very roomy. She has her Barry Manilow CD's,I've got my Pink Floyd, Credance and other CD's. And we will both be telling each other to either turn up or down the volume when we are driving up the freeway. Its usually me that has the volume up a bit.

    Gee I'm getting side tracked. As I said I will be away for a week. So when I get back I will take a few digi photos of the motor and em them to you. I think that I also have a spare adaptor for a Holley. I will photo that too and send the dimensions. Then you can make a card board stencil and match that with adaptors in car accessory shops.

    I guess that petrol is cheap in the US so stick with petrol. If you use the higher octane petrol the motor will run better. My wife always uses the 604 for short trips to the shops and visit her girl friends near by so the 604 was thirsty of fuel in short suburban driving. In fact some V8's were more economical that the 604. Thats why I decided to go to LPG. Should have done it years earlier. We've had our 604 for 18 1/2 years now. I have a spare 604 so I can keep the good one going for another 18 years I hope.

    FF can you PM to me your email address. Next week when I get back I will follow up for you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    I think the kickdown cable remains on the wheel... actually, that wheel is great for making up linkages to different carburettors.

    Steve, what are the performance details with the LPG? Everyone I've ever spoken to who's done this has come out on top all round...
    Steve V6 ..
    404,504Ti, 406SV.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve V6
    FF,
    For the kickdown cable I made a bracket and ran the kickdown cable thru that to the linkage on the Holley. With LPG the 604 performance is effected as if the air condition was on when on petrol. Yep a bit slower but not by much. The power comes on with the motor about 500rpm later than it did when on petrol. I don't go accelerating fast everywhere so it does not bother me. The 604 still keeps up with the front of the pack. But its really my wifes car and she did not notice any changes. If I want to really zoom around then I go in my 406 SV. That car gets to illegal speeds vvvery quickly. But that is not my type of driving. Actually tomorrow my wife and I are driving north in the 604 because it is a really nice car to go on long trips and very roomy. She has her Barry Manilow CD's,I've got my Pink Floyd, Credance and other CD's. And we will both be telling each other to either turn up or down the volume when we are driving up the freeway. Its usually me that has the volume up a bit.

    Gee I'm getting side tracked. As I said I will be away for a week. So when I get back I will take a few digi photos of the motor and em them to you. I think that I also have a spare adaptor for a Holley. I will photo that too and send the dimensions. Then you can make a card board stencil and match that with adaptors in car accessory shops.

    I guess that petrol is cheap in the US so stick with petrol. If you use the higher octane petrol the motor will run better. My wife always uses the 604 for short trips to the shops and visit her girl friends near by so the 604 was thirsty of fuel in short suburban driving. In fact some V8's were more economical that the 604. Thats why I decided to go to LPG. Should have done it years earlier. We've had our 604 for 18 1/2 years now. I have a spare 604 so I can keep the good one going for another 18 years I hope.

    FF can you PM to me your email address. Next week when I get back I will follow up for you.

    Hi Steve,

    If you are back I hope you had a good vacation.

    I finally have my Holley 350 and now I'm ready to work on my conversion. A quick question, did you use the existing cam wheel on the manifold to operate your accelerator linkage on the carburetor or did you use a bracket and go directly to the carburretor linkage from the bracket?

    I see where you used a bracket for the kickdown cable.

    Also, do you have anything to share with me on the adapter plate? I see where one of the dimensions between holes on the carburetors is the same (about 2") where the other dimension varies between the two carbs.

    Thanks,

    Carl (aka Frenchfreak)

  16. #16
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    Default 604 350 Holley

    FF,
    Yes I got back a week ago. I've been busy at work and haven't been on the internet for over a week. I will try to photograph (tomorrow hopefully) the adaptor with a rule beside it for dimension. Also will photo two engine compartments with a Holley so you can see my set up. (I have two 604's). I didn't use the existing cam wheel. But would recommend to try and use it. In the late '80s I had the accelerator cable break twice for some strange reason near where the cable goes into the outer sleeve at the throttle lever. I got a hold of some stainless steel cable that was a bit thicker and no more problem.
    The set up has been the same since I installed the Holley in 1987 because the bottom of the Holley is retained with the LPG conversion.

    Also if you have the electrical capability to install a Volvo 264 electronic iginition system (same as 604 Ti ignition system) ie ign module and electronic dizzy I recommend it. When I changed over to the electronic ignition the cars' performance seemed as if another cyclinder was added. The get up and go really improved. Also no need to adjust point any more. Haven't touched the ignition system for 8 or 9 years. Can't remember the last time.

    Will try to take those photos tomorrow.
    steve V6..
    .................................................. ........................................

    I finally have my Holley 350 and now I'm ready to work on my conversion. A quick question, did you use the existing cam wheel on the manifold to operate your accelerator linkage on the carburetor or did you use a bracket and go directly to the carburretor linkage from the bracket?

    I see where you used a bracket for the kickdown cable.

    Also, do you have anything to share with me on the adapter plate? I see where one of the dimensions between holes on the carburetors is the same (about 2") where the other dimension varies between the two carbs.

    Thanks,

    Carl (aka Frenchfreak)[/QUOTE]
    Steve V6 ..
    404,504Ti, 406SV.

  17. #17
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve V6
    I guess that petrol is cheap in the US so stick with petrol. If you use the higher octane petrol the motor will run better.
    This was an "old" post, but it's worth noting that fuel in the States comes in 3 dazzling octane levels - 87, 89 and 92 RON. 92 isn't that high compared to here.
    Regards,

    Simon

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  18. #18
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    Default 604 Holley

    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206
    This was an "old" post, but it's worth noting that fuel in the States comes in 3 dazzling octane levels - 87, 89 and 92 RON. 92 isn't that high compared to here.
    Carl,
    800k's of pictures in your email. I split the pictures over two em's. Not sure how quick your down loading is. Drive over when you install the Holley. Remember to fill up first...!
    Steve V6 ..
    404,504Ti, 406SV.

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