Cooling fans on 505
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts silverexec's Avatar
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    Cooling fans on 505

    Hi all,

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    Just a few questions about the cooling fans in my 505.

    When the engine's cold and switched off, the fan driven by the water pump (through the viscous clutch) can't be turned by hand at all - with the engine running the fan's always on maximum speed. I was going to replace the clutch so does anyone know roughly how much a 2ndhand one would cost? And how difficult are they to replace? Can I change it without removing the radiator?

    I've also noticed that the thermostatically controlled electric fan has never come on in the 4 weeks I've had the car. I originally thought it could be due to the cool conditions we're having in Melbourne (or because the other fan's running at maximum speed). Is this normal or should it be running? I checked the actual fan and it does work (I connected it directly to the battery and it was fine).

    Cheers,
    Richard
    - Richard

    Now: 405 SRI D70 '93
    - 2.0L manual
    Earlier: 505 GTi Executive '85
    - hence "Silver Exec"...
    25 GTX '86
    - manual conversion

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Richard,
    The electronic fan in front of the radiator is used mainly for Aircon, and only comes on if the engine is really overheating.

    With our old (XN1) 505 Wagon, we found the clutch to be brocken for the main cooling fan. It was going to cost a fortune for the part, so we never got it replaced. We just permanantly locked the clutch on, so the fan always ran at the speed of the engine. Noisy, but it was better then having the car overheat. dead
    Jason Judd
    <img border="0" alt="[Peugeot Emblem]" title="" src="graemlins/peugeot.gif" /> '85 505 GTi Executive
    <img border="0" alt="[Peugeot Emblem]" title="" src="graemlins/peugeot.gif" /> '88 205 GL 1.1

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts silverexec's Avatar
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    I had a play with the electric fan this afternoon, got out the multimeter and checked voltages with the aircon both on and off, and it turns out either the relay's faulty or the wiring around the relay's dodgy. I was wiggling the relay and the fan would go on and off. I'll sort this out tomorrow.

    The other fan (with the clutch) is a bit strange though... I had a look in my Haynes manual, and the one that's shown is different to mine. Mine isn't made up of a separate fan hub and pulley as shown in the pictures. My pulley is conical shaped and the fan somehow sits at its tip, rather than being bolted on to the hub like in the manual. The fan's also got some sort of metal fins at its centre which aren't shown in the manual. My guess is that 505s with carbys must have had different fan and clutch assemblies to 505s with fuel injection. The manual makes no mention of this though. Can anyone verify my theory?

    Richard
    - Richard

    Now: 405 SRI D70 '93
    - 2.0L manual
    Earlier: 505 GTi Executive '85
    - hence "Silver Exec"...
    25 GTX '86
    - manual conversion

  4. #4
    Gus
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    Fellow Frogger! Gus's Avatar
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    From memory, the fans on the carby and the injected models are a bit different. Also, the later model cars have an electromagnetic clutch to engage the fan when the thermoswitch clicks on - they don't use a viscous coupling.

    If your viscous coupling has died, I would recommend doing what I did when the viscous coupling in my 505 STi failed - get an electric fan!

    I bought a Nissan Bluebird "puller" fan from a wrecker for $40 (I imagine I could have gotten one much cheaper if I shopped around, or had more mounting room - the STi engine leaves very little), made mounting brackets from small pieces of aluminium, drilled holes in the mounting flanges on the radiator to suit, and bolted the fan on!

    The fan is driven by a relay from a Peugeot thermoswitch.

    The car has never threatened to overheat, it's biggest test to date has been driving through Sydney CBD at 6pm. (Remember that, at least in an STi, proper operating temp is with the needle a _fraction_ above horizontal.) Unexpected benefits included a massive reduction in engine vibration at idle, and in engine vibration at high speed. Plus I probably gained a tiny amount of high rpm power from the engine not needing to turn the fan.

    However, my AC fan _does not_ come on at high temp (I can verify this because I did not realise the water pump was driven from the fan pulley, and the first time I hooked it all up I used a shorter belt that didn't turn the water pump.... bad idea!!).

    Also, I remember reading someone's testimonial that "I've been driving my 504 with just the AC fan for ages and it doesn't overheat." So maybe that fan is all you need, if you're lucky enough for it to be thermostatically activated.

    (Also when I had my radiator out I noticed you could only see daylight through approx 1/3 of the fins. I took the radiator to the local car wash and used the ultra-high-pressure water to flush out all the dead bugs, dirt, etc. - country car - and now it flows air much better.)

    <small>[ 11 August 2002, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: Gus ]</small>

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts silverexec's Avatar
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    If your viscous coupling has died, I would recommend doing what I did when the viscous coupling in my 505 STi failed - get an electric fan!

    --SNIP--

    Also, I remember reading someone's testimonial that "I've been driving my 504 with just the AC fan for ages and it doesn't overheat." So maybe that fan is all you need, if you're lucky enough for it to be thermostatically activated.
    Hmmm, interesting idea. Next weekend, I might take the fan and clutch out to get a better look at it all, and see if the air-con fan can do the job on its own. Mine should come on since I traced the wiring from the relay and it's also connected to the thermoswitch at the bottom of the radiator. When I connected the two wires that lead to the switch together (bypassing the switch), the fan would come on. So if the thermoswitch isn't faulty, it should all work...

    If your fan wasn't coming on, could have been that maybe your switch was faulty, but it seems like there's so many different fan setups that who knows how things should work.

    Sounds like there are some good benefits to installing an electric fan. I'll definitely look into it if I can't get my viscous clutch and air-con fan working right.

    Richard
    - Richard

    Now: 405 SRI D70 '93
    - 2.0L manual
    Earlier: 505 GTi Executive '85
    - hence "Silver Exec"...
    25 GTX '86
    - manual conversion

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts silverexec's Avatar
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    Fixed the aircon fan today, there was a bad connection on the aircon wire to the relay so I fixed all of that up and now it's fine.

    BUT... does anyone know how to remove the viscous clutch?? I checked in the Haynes manual but it doesn't say. I tried taking out the 4 screws that bolt it to the pulley but it wouldn't come out, it would spin around though. I hope I don't have to take out the water pump, that wouldn't be nice.

    Thanks for everyone's help so far.

    Richard
    - Richard

    Now: 405 SRI D70 '93
    - 2.0L manual
    Earlier: 505 GTi Executive '85
    - hence "Silver Exec"...
    25 GTX '86
    - manual conversion

  7. #7
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i take it you have removed or loosened the fan belt
    just thought i would ask
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  8. #8
    1000+ Posts silverexec's Avatar
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    I assumed the clutch would separate from the pulley when I unbolted it, so I didn't bother with the fan belt... Does it all come off together?
    I need a drink. a_drink mallet
    - Richard

    Now: 405 SRI D70 '93
    - 2.0L manual
    Earlier: 505 GTi Executive '85
    - hence "Silver Exec"...
    25 GTX '86
    - manual conversion

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger!
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    silverexec:
    I assumed the clutch would separate from the pulley when I unbolted it, so I didn't bother with the fan belt... Does it all come off together?
    The viscous coupling is located on the water pump by a small centre shaft and the four bolts (which you have removed). The same four bolts also secure the fan belt pulley.
    The viscous coupling will separate from the water pump - though you may have to lever it off to get it moving. Try a fine screwdriver between the fan belt pulley and the base of the viscous coupling. You should loosen the fan belt, or that could cause the fan belt pulley to slew sideways.

    Then it should all 'fall away' in your hands.

    D

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts silverexec's Avatar
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    Thanks for that, I'll have another play with it when time allows in the next few days.
    dance cheers!
    Richard
    - Richard

    Now: 405 SRI D70 '93
    - 2.0L manual
    Earlier: 505 GTi Executive '85
    - hence "Silver Exec"...
    25 GTX '86
    - manual conversion

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