403 wagon
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Thread: 403 wagon

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    403 wagon

    i can get my hands on a complete, running, rust free 403 wagon.. it has been sitting for about 20 years but will still start.. what do u think i will have to do to get it on the road and what sort of $$ will i need to spend? im pretty sure it will need new tyres and the brakes will prob be a bit sus after sitting for so long.. is there anything else that will have deteroiated over this long period? any chance of obtaining new rubbers if necesary?

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    63' 403 Sedan, Cream (OMY-403)
    63' 403 Sedan, Blue

  2. #2
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Timmy:
    i can get my hands on a complete, running, rust free 403 wagon.. it has been sitting for about 20 years but will still start.. what do u think i will have to do to get it on the road and what sort of $$ will i need to spend? im pretty sure it will need new tyres and the brakes will prob be a bit sus after sitting for so long.. is there anything else that will have deteroiated over this long period? any chance of obtaining new rubbers if necesary?
    brake seals will need doing
    oil seals through out will need doing
    probably most or all of the bushes will need replacing
    a lot of work in a car that has been sitting for a long time
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  3. #3
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    labour isnt a problem, any idea what these parts would cost and if they could be easily located?
    63' 403 Sedan, Cream (OMY-403)
    63' 403 Sedan, Blue

  4. #4
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    Timmy - depends how far you want to go with it - do you want it to be concourse? If so, do everything. Spend 20 grand on it if you have to. Then sit back and cruise in one of the loveliest wagons ever made.

    Otherwise, just do the essentials and fix things as you go. Don't get too bogged down with having to have every spare part at your fingertips. People waste too much money on sourcing parts they'll probably never use. These cars are tough - just do the preventative maintenance and drive it - it'll go fine I'm sure.

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger!
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    concourse would be nice but its not going to happen with my budget! ill talk to my peugeot man up here and see how much ill need to spend to get it roadworthy then go from there... thanks
    63' 403 Sedan, Cream (OMY-403)
    63' 403 Sedan, Blue

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Anyone know how drivable a 403 wagon is as an everyday car? does it handle the highway well? will they do 100kmh comfortably and stay there for a while?
    63' 403 Sedan, Cream (OMY-403)
    63' 403 Sedan, Blue

  7. #7
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    Timmy,
    They can be slow and noisy in traffic or climbing hills if the motor is tired (likely) but they have magic ride and handling, even better than the sedans. As a bonus the space available after you take the back seat out is truly amazing.
    You need to buy a water pump straight away, and replace the brake seals and front end bushes. Engine parts can be hard to get and to get full benefit from the car you will almost certainly need to rebuild the engine at some stage.
    Graham Wallis

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    is there anything else that will have deteroiated over this long period? any chance of obtaining new rubbers if necesary?[/QB][/QUOTE]

    Neo Retro in FRance <a href="http://www.neoretrofrance.com" target="_blank">www.neoretrofrance.com</a> has a range of stuff for the 403. Rubber items would generally be mailable items. They will respond in English if you email them.

    Cheers
    cheers!

    <small>[ 30 September 2003, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: BogMaster ]</small>
    Woo Hoo Honi ko'u 'elemu (Hawaiian)

  9. #9
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Timmy:
    Anyone know how drivable a 403 wagon is as an everyday car? does it handle the highway well? will they do 100kmh comfortably and stay there for a while?
    handle a bit better than a sedan
    ride like a truck
    steer like a truck
    see a hill and they die
    change back a gear and rev like crazy change back up and die again when going up hills
    flat out top speed around 80mph with a tail wind
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    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger!
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    "handle a bit better than a sedan
    ride like a truck
    steer like a truck
    see a hill and they die
    change back a gear and rev like crazy change back up and die again when going up hills
    flat out top speed around 80mph with a tail wind " quote

    sounds perfect to me!!!!!!

    80mph? too fast anyway! give me 55mph anyday!
    63' 403 Sedan, Cream (OMY-403)
    63' 403 Sedan, Blue

  11. #11
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    ive heard that a 404 motor will fit? i know of 404's with 504 motors so does this mean i could squeeze a 504 2L in there?
    63' 403 Sedan, Cream (OMY-403)
    63' 403 Sedan, Blue

  12. #12
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Timmy:
    "handle a bit better than a sedan
    ride like a truck
    steer like a truck
    see a hill and they die
    change back a gear and rev like crazy change back up and die again when going up hills
    flat out top speed around 80mph with a tail wind " quote

    sounds perfect to me!!!!!!

    80mph? too fast anyway! give me 55mph anyday!
    Timmy
    have you never driven a 403 wagon ?
    ever seen the sticker on the back of cars that say 0-60 in 15 mins ?
    they were made for 403 wagons seriously
    80mph = approx 125km/h
    that's flat out in the wagon and i mean flat out after winding the car up for a good stretch
    original 403 wagons in traffic are like trucks to manouver
    hard to see out of the rear
    once you get on the open road they are comfortable at around 70-80km/h and that's it
    any more and the noise drives you mad

    but these aren't the reasons i have been looking for a 403 wagon
    i have other ideas for one

    the 504 wagon you have is light years ahead
    3 x '78 604 SL

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    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  13. #13
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Timmy:
    ive heard that a 404 motor will fit? i know of 404's with 504 motors so does this mean i could squeeze a 504 2L in there?
    you can put a 2L in them after a lot of work and you have enough room to fit a toothpick down the side of the engine in the engine bay
    203's are better suited to 2L transplants
    they have more room
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  14. #14
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    never driven a 403,.. grew up in 404's and 504's. any advantage of a late 404 motor in the 403? any changes to get the highway speed up? different diffs? gearboxes? etc? of course maybe larger wheels but id hate to sacrifice the original looks.. sorry if i sound nieve, 403's are strangers to me
    63' 403 Sedan, Cream (OMY-403)
    63' 403 Sedan, Blue

  15. #15
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Timmy:
    never driven a 403,.. grew up in 404's and 504's. any advantage of a late 404 motor in the 403? any changes to get the highway speed up? different diffs? gearboxes? etc? of course maybe larger wheels but id hate to sacrifice the original looks.. sorry if i sound nieve, 403's are strangers to me
    more power from the 404 engine
    gearing is a major job to upgrade in a wagon
    they come with 15" wheels anyway
    to get gearing up you can change to truck tyres but then you sacrifice the truck ride with more truck ride
    engine bays in 403's are very tight, tighter than 203 engine bays
    unless you plan on doing major surgery to a 403 wagon you are pretty well stuck with a very agricultural wagon
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  16. #16
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    The 404/504 engine conversion parts are available in Adelaide at present, see thread in parts for sale. A lot of work is needed however and it is actually much easier to fit a Holden six.
    As I said the major problem will be a tired motor which it is sure to have.
    Can't agree about the truck like ride, the one I had rode superbly, very quiet over even the roughest surfaces and much better than the 404 or 504 wagons.
    They sorted out this problem with the 505 when they got rid of the 4 coil spring rear end.
    Graham Wallis

  17. #17
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    all that sounds good to me.keep 'it'original i would say, if you don't go ahead,i might be interested.what would cost 'thing' like that ?but i do pref .a sedan.will i hear from you regards cor boon

  18. #18
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    GRAHAM WALLIS:
    The 404/504 engine conversion parts are available in Adelaide at present, see thread in parts for sale. A lot of work is needed however and it is actually much easier to fit a Holden six.
    As I said the major problem will be a tired motor which it is sure to have.
    Can't agree about the truck like ride, the one I had rode superbly, very quiet over even the roughest surfaces and much better than the 404 or 504 wagons.
    They sorted out this problem with the 505 when they got rid of the 4 coil spring rear end.
    Graham Wallis
    Graham

    you must have had a one of a kind 403 wagon
    i have been in a few over the years and they all rode like trucks
    i have also been in a few 504 wagons and they are much more like a car than any other wagon i have been in
    my old man even told me a story about a bloke called jack nelson
    now jack bought a 403 wagon for his then wife to drive around thinking it would suit her really well
    that lady never complained so much about a car untill he gave her i think a 203 after that to drive around in
    i was talking to my old man earlier today and broached on the 403 wagon subject as he has had many a 403 sedan and wagon in earlier days when they were near new
    in 1960 a sedans top speed was 87mph
    wagons were lucky to get to 70mph and at that speed they were deafening
    he covered many miles in 403 wagons
    pros
    roomy
    climb up walls

    cons
    noisy
    slow
    ride like a dray
    heavy to drive
    hard to see out of the rear
    die when you saw a hill in the distance

    i will have to correct myself on an earlier post
    403 wagons had 16" wheels

    my old mans words were regarding the ride and drivability of a 403 wagon is they are akin to a blitz truck
    3 x '78 604 SL

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    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  19. #19
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    Strange, mine was nothing special, a shit heap actually. Maybe that was the secret, the springs had softened up! I remember that the road down the hill from Montrose (Melbourne) had a very rough surface, the wagon used to glide over this without a sound whilst everything else rattled and thumped.
    If you can find a late (1962 onwards) rear end you can fit a late 404 diff centre and fix the gearing problem.
    Graham Wallis

  20. #20
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Jack Nelson, pubrambo?

    Remember him well, he drove a 403 wagon for many years, virtually up until his death IIRC.

    And he had many other Pugs at his disposal, but the wagon seemed to be his vehicle of choice, at least around town.

    I asked him once about it, thinking as I did at the time that their larger size etc would make them a bit 'trucklike'... and he said they were just like the car to drive. As Graham is saying...

    That's out of the horse's mouth. And they definitely had 15" wheels, but with a larger tyre section than the sedan.

    As for what can be done... well, nothing's impossible.

    The 203C block interchanges with the 403 block, it can be bored out to take modified Vanguard liners and pistons, gives a huge capacity increase.

    One engine with these sleeves also had a shortened Jaguar twin cam head fitted... like I said, nothing's impossible.

    Engine parts aren't hard to source, Brian Lear has no trouble at all getting new bits out of Germany (bearings, gaskets etc) when he needs them for his Elfin.

    Graham's suggestion of the later axle tubes and a 404 diff is spot on... but use the 404 wagon diff, it's a 4.75:1 ratio. What ratio is the '62 wagon diff though, Graham? 5.25 or something?

    I'd go for the 4.75 with the C2 box, personally...

  21. #21
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Oh, yeah... why isn't this thread in the Peugeot forum?

    I'd really like to see some discipline with these threads, Pug topics in the Pug forum, cars for sale in cars for sale, parts for sale not in cars for sale, French car parts for sale not in the Trading Post... etc.

  22. #22
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    the 403 wagon he had went before Vy left
    jack had a 404 wagon for quite a while up till he died
    we actually ended up with that one which then became 2L TI powered
    went well but would never stop in a hurry
    403 sedans had alright brakes
    403 wagons didn't stop too well
    404 sedans stopped ok
    404 wagons didn't stop too well
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  23. #23
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    Ray Bell:
    Oh, yeah... why isn't this thread in the Peugeot forum?

    I'd really like to see some discipline with these threads, Pug topics in the Pug forum, cars for sale in cars for sale, parts for sale not in cars for sale, French car parts for sale not in the Trading Post... etc.
    You read my mind Ray. I was thinking the same thing when opening this thread. There are many more like it too. Off-topic threads need to be culled as well. Generally, the forum needs perhaps an active and keen member to have sufficient privilages to move threads. That would make a big difference.

  24. #24
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by pugrambo
    <strong>the 403 wagon he had went before Vy left
    jack had a 404 wagon for quite a while up till he died
    we actually ended up with that one which then became 2L TI powered
    went well but would never stop in a hurry
    403 sedans had alright brakes
    403 wagons didn't stop too well
    404 sedans stopped ok
    404 wagons didn't stop too well
    All the same, the above quote was about the 403.

    The brakes can't have been too bad in 404 wagons, they were bigger than the same model Chevs had...

  25. #25
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    macquered:
    Ray Bell:
    Oh, yeah... why isn't this thread in the Peugeot forum?

    I'd really like to see some discipline with these threads, Pug topics in the Pug forum, cars for sale in cars for sale, parts for sale not in cars for sale, French car parts for sale not in the Trading Post... etc.
    You read my mind Ray. I was thinking the same thing when opening this thread. There are many more like it too. Off-topic threads need to be culled as well. Generally, the forum needs perhaps an active and keen member to have sufficient privilages to move threads. That would make a big difference.
    i agree
    it is something that each moderator of each forum topic can do
    either that or as macquered has stated a member who is around a lot of the time and who is keen to do it, to have access to moderate all section s to move topics from one spot to where they should be located
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

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