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  1. #1
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Default Economy in manufacture...

    What carmaker can boast that they have used one component on each model from 1948 to 1986?

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    Well, maybe Peugeot can't either, but I was gratified to see the item below on the 505 wagon engine I've bought. I remember using this piece on every 203, 404, 504, 204 I've owned. Now hang on... did they use them on the 403? I don't think so, maybe the wagons?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Economy in manufacture...-oilcap.jpg  

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    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Economy in manufacture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    What carmaker can boast that they have used one component on each model from 1948 to 1986?

    Well, maybe Peugeot can't either, but I was gratified to see the item below on the 505 wagon engine I've bought. I remember using this piece on every 203, 404, 504, 204 I've owned. Now hang on... did they use them on the 403? I don't think so, maybe the wagons?
    Ray, With the addition of a small vent 'ole they became fuel filler caps also.
    Reading back, apart from the 403 oil filler and concealed fuel filler I assume* you've meant this?
    Some of the smaller suspension bushes, Panhard rod etc have been the same from year dot.

    * Assume. A word I promised myself to never use.

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    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Ray. Is that an oil filler cap? It must be the OHC engine, because the 505 GR/SR pushrod engines have the remote filler, above the rear left of the sump.
    May-be the 505GR/SR is a hole in the manufacture run too..is there a gap between the 504 last production run and the 505 OHC engined cars?


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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I gotta get there this coming week, I promise...

    That's an SR or SL or something... fool injected engine, has the filler in the place nature should have intended it to be!

    And yes, beesty, I included fuel caps in my thinking.

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    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Tis Ok, anytime is fine. I think that's an SLi you are refering to. Bosch mech injection on an XN engine.

    Cheers,
    Chris.


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    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    I gotta get there this coming week, I promise...

    That's an SR or SL or something... fool injected engine, has the filler in the place nature should have intended it to be!

    And yes, beesty, I included fuel caps in my thinking.
    I really am beginning to worry about you!!!

    Fool injected? really!!

    and the location of the filler almost needs an < M > rating too doesn't it?

    Alan S
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    I thought of the fuel caps- they were used on the 403 utes so it was continuous until when? Also the brake master cylinder - used 203 to early 404 (and I suspect on the post war 202's). The pedal assembly on the early 203's was from the 402 and the tail lights of the very first 203's were made before the war for the light 402B.

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    I think you'll also find 8V valve springs have been around for a long time, in diesels as well as petrol.

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Alan S
    I really am beginning to worry about you!!!

    Fool injected?
    I'm fine, Alan... no need to worry about me...

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    Fellow Frogger!
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    One day with my 504 I stupidly left my fuel cap on top of the car and drove off, once I'd realised I drove back later and found it had been run over and broken apart.

    I managed to get it slightly back together but it was never a perfect seal.

    Anyway when at my '504 guy's place he got the fuel cap out of a rusted 203 sitting in the backyard, sanded it then painted it and I was away.

    Quite funny to think for a long time my 504 was using a 203 fuel cap.

    I've never had a 505, did they share the same fuel cap as a 504?

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    No, they don't... at least in Australia they don't. But I suspect that late 504s and 505s might not have changed from the old cap in some places.

    Man, didn't women have trouble working that 3-prong cap out! "Push it on before you turn it, darling!"

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    Fellow Frogger! Decca's Avatar
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    What carmaker can boast that they have used one component on each model from 1948 to 1986?
    Ray, although not going back to 1948. But possibly as long, or longer in model run years, The Porsche 911 has used a part somewhere on the bonnet for as long. May have been something to do with the latch.. Cant quite remember


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    Man, didn't women have trouble working that 3-prong cap out! "Push it on before you turn it, darling!"
    I know what you mean. Although I never had any woman fueling up my car, petrol station attendants were very confused by it.

    To the point where I would jump in and do it myself before they got the chance, just to save us both the embarassment.

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    1000+ Posts Fordman's Avatar
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    Default 45 Years On.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    What carmaker can boast that they have used one component on each model from 1948 to 1986?
    Not quite 48 years, but getting close, the engine oil filter on Falcon 6 cyl still in 2005 is the same as the first (XK) Falcon of 1960.
    If it works, why change it?
    And as you say, Ray, economies of scale - how cheap they must be able to make these things now - and it's good for the workshop inventory as well.
    Cheers
    Fordman.

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    Fellow Frogger! Decca's Avatar
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    The Falcon. I'd forgotten about them...
    The wagons still have leaf springs.. They were old hat when the T model Ford had them. A carry over from the horse and cart days


    Decca
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    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Decca
    The Falcon. I'd forgotten about them...
    The wagons still have leaf springs.. They were old hat when the T model Ford had them. A carry over from the horse and cart days


    Decca
    ........... for the lack of handling the wagon must suffer.
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    R18 GTS wagon x 2
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    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Fordman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Decca
    The Falcon. I'd forgotten about them...
    The wagons still have leaf springs.. They were old hat when the T model Ford had them. A carry over from the horse and cart days


    Decca
    Yes, I suppose I walked right into that .

    Now, if you told me the leaf springs were the same part number as 50 years ago I would say it was then relevant to this thread ( and I would then be able to say what a good design it must have been!).

    I noticed today my Scenic has a steering wheel, and rubber tyres, for god's sake - how long have they been around?

    By the way, have you heard about parabolic composite leaf springs being used on European light commercials these days?

    Lucky I had some spare time tonight, I usually try not to make inane replies like this, but why not?

    Cheers, Fordman.

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Fordman
    .....By the way, have you heard about parabolic composite leaf springs being used on European light commercials these days?
    Are they something like the ones GM fitted to the Camaro about 1966?

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    Default Leaf Springs

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    Are they something like the ones GM fitted to the Camaro about 1966?
    I don't know that one, Ray, but quite possibly.

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    Fellow Frogger! Decca's Avatar
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    Fordman.. looking back at my post it does appear to be a bit of a dig at Ford and you ... so I apologise if it appears a bit narky.

    Although I deviated a bit from the intent of Ray's original question.. I feel that Ford have hamstrung Falcon wagon sales by continuing to use rear leaf springs when there are better options available.
    A leaf spring has to locate the rear axle as well as provide springing, therefore both functions are compromised as the one item is doing both.

    I havent heard about the composite leaf springs... I would have thought that physically there are too big (long), and needed room to move. and coils or torsion bars were the go because they are compact. ???


    Decca
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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Another strength (if you'll pardon the pun...) of leaf springs at the rear is that they aid in providing structural integrity to the rear of the body.

    The load is fed into the body at two points, one each side of that structural nightmare, the hoop that goes over the rear axle. So this means that the car is less likely to buckle at that point... and that's in accidents as well as from consistent overloading and shock loads.

    A coil spring, on the other hand, places the load right in the middle of the hoop. I've yet to see a live axle rear end with a torsion bar...

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    1000+ Posts Fordman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Decca
    Fordman.. looking back at my post it does appear to be a bit of a dig at Ford and you ... so I apologise if it appears a bit narky.

    Although I deviated a bit from the intent of Ray's original question.. I feel that Ford have hamstrung Falcon wagon sales by continuing to use rear leaf springs when there are better options available.
    A leaf spring has to locate the rear axle as well as provide springing, therefore both functions are compromised as the one item is doing both.

    I havent heard about the composite leaf springs... I would have thought that physically there are too big (long), and needed room to move. and coils or torsion bars were the go because they are compact. ???


    Decca
    Not a problem, Decca, I have to be pretty thick-skinned to comment on this forum, but I try not to talk Ford unless the thread invites it! Having a foot in both camps can be a bit frustrating at times, but as an automotive engineer I believe I have a fairly open mind on the subject - others may not agree!

    Personally, I think the leafs are retained because they dont intrude into the load carrying area (maximum space), as well as their load carrying capacity (as mentioned above by Ray). After all it is a load carrying vehicle, not a sports car. I don't think leafs are the ideal spring, but in this case they are the compromise which has been chosen.
    Did you ever look in the back of an early Camry wagon, at the intrusion of the coil spring towers into the load area - I hope they don't still make them like that.

    Cheers, Fordman.

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    Fellow Frogger! Cubits's Avatar
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    And having something fill two roles isn't always a bad thing. May i direct your attention to the fwd peugeots?

    "FWD's can't handle"

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    IIRC, there was a minor difference between the petrol cap and the oil cap...

    Cork or neoprene sealing depending... and that little breather hole, right?

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    Another strength (if you'll pardon the pun...) of leaf springs at the rear is that they aid in providing structural integrity to the rear of the body.

    A coil spring, on the other hand, places the load right in the middle of the hoop. I've yet to see a live axle rear end with a torsion bar...
    Holden has been using coil sprung rears, since the Mid Seventies on their wagons. I fear to drive anything that relies on a leaf spring for providing structural integrity.

    I had a quick look under a Dogwoo, (trying to find the hamster that provides the power), not that long ago and it appeared to use a torsion bar setup on the rear, please correct me if I am wrong, (like that isnít going to happen)(tic).

    The motor in the thing resembled a Camira motor, (no doubt a GM flog off).
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