XN1 that sounds like a Hoover...
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  1. #1
    nJm
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    XN1 that sounds like a Hoover...

    After hearing some other 505 GRs around I've decided that my car definately whistles a lot more - to the point it sounds like either a turbo car or a hoover. I managed to record it tonight, although it sounds a lot softer than it does in reality - the noise is very noticable (it sounds gentle in this recording)

    here it is:
    <a href="http://users.bigpond.net.au/njms_area/engine2.wav" target="_blank">http://users.bigpond.net.au/njms_area/engine2.wav</a>

    I hope one of you might know what it could be to sound like that? Nothing was picked up on at its last service, and its always maked this noise since I bought it. One thing, it definately gets louder while you change gears, almost like a fake blow off valve clown

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    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! crosspug's Avatar
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    I have not had any contact with an XN1 engine but could it be the air intake as it "sucks" air into it and through the filter??

    Isn't that half the point of a pod filter, the induction noise??

    just the first thing that came into my head, when I listened to the .wav

    Jono clown

    Where is the noise coming from?? I've heard gearboxes which have had similar noise's.

    <small>[ 01 August 2002, 01:12 AM: Message edited by: crosspug ]</small>
    1989 BX16Valve

    "Resting" 1983 505 STi

  3. #3
    nJm
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    It appears to be coming from the right hand side of the engine bay - i think. Its really hard to place.

    I'll check the filter again to see if there are any leaks or to see how tightly its connected to the carb.
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  4. #4
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    nJm:
    It appears to be coming from the right hand side of the engine bay - i think. Its really hard to place.

    I'll check the filter again to see if there are any leaks or to see how tightly its connected to the carb.
    Sounds like possibly alternator or water pump bearings to me. If this is the case, within a few months, the noise should be slightly louder, and its origin will be more obvious. Often this is the only way to locate such noises without driving yourself uneccessarily mad.

    The noise is definitely not anything to be worried about yet. Just wait and see if it gets louder. Slight exhaust manifold leaks are another possibility, but if this is the case it must be small, since larger leaks will make the engine sound like a VW rather that hissing.

    Dave

  5. #5
    nJm
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    Thanks Dave.

    My mum thinks the car sounds like a 1970s VW Beetle they had, so maybe an exaughst leak is possible? Will see how it goes over time.

    cheers.

    Nick
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  6. #6
    Member LynCliff's Avatar
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    The whisling noise could just be coming from your fan belt, try spraying the belt with CRC while the engine's running, (be carefull of moving parts). Give it a rev and see if the noise changes, the CRC wont hurt the belt. An even better test is to remove the belt but this is'nt quite so easy. Dayco topcog belts can make some strange noises.

  7. #7
    nJm
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    I tried it, wasn't the fan belt. On closer inspection I'd say its the alternator, as its coming from around there - not the other side where the exaughst manifold is (so that should rule out a leak from there).

    I suppose its still possible is the gearbox, its just really hard to localise it. It definately gets louder and changes pitch when changing gears. When you are changing gears (so clutch in), there isn't any load on the alternator is there? That would explain it I suppose.
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  8. #8
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    Huh?
    Nick, The alternator is mounted on the fron t of the engine and drives directly off the crankshaft front pulley through the fan belt, how does the clutch have anything to do with it.
    Sounds like it's the clutch throwout bearing to me.
    Didn't hear anything on the audio file except engine and exhaust noise.

    Graham Wallis

  9. #9
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Nick,

    I got no sound on my computer but going on the varying descriptions could I make a couple of suggestions.
    Do 505s have a cambelt? If so check that it's not been overtightened.
    Secondly; if as you say the noise changes with things associated with clutch & gears, could I suggest you check the oil level in the gearbox? Might sound like a weird suggestion but I'm basing this on 3 cars we've bought in the last 12 months plus one we bought just prior to that.
    #1 - Mitsubishi Lancer...about 500 ml of oil
    #2 - BX TRi...... about 500 ml of oil
    #3 - BX 16 valve...about 300 ml of oil
    #4 - CX C-matic....suspect transmission fluid never been changed since 1979

    Each one was "professionally" serviced; each either didn't change properly, was making weird noises or was a dirty colour and consistency when changed. From memory, you haven't owned this car all that long. Have you done a transmission oil change since you've owned it (I mean YOU, not the local servo)

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  10. #10
    nJm
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    I haven't even looked at the gearbox oil and looking at the service history, neither has the mechanic.

    I've actually been thinking about putting Mobile1 in it, as according to some on this board that should help the gear action (I have a bit of a worn syncro on 1st -> 2nd).

    I'll investigate this, as there is no harm in replacing the oil

    Graham: Don't mind my vague ramblings blush I do have a feeling it could be the alternator, as last week when my car was left sitting in the driveway for only 2 days it got a flat battery, and its battery is only 7 months old.

    Cheers,
    Nick
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  11. #11
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Nick,

    I'd be a bit "iffy" about putting Mobil 1 in a car 20 years old unless of course the engine is either very low K's or in very sound condition. I would reckon I may go as far as semi-synthetic which has a slightly higher lower end weighting.
    I use it in my 16 valve due to the low mileage and the fact that multi valve engines have to get a lot of oil into a lot of nooks and crannies pretty quickly. The engine oil shouldn't have a bearing on gear changes unless they share a common sump as with the old BX 14 series.
    As a result of experiences with others particularly on this board, I've made it a habit of adding Nulon gearbox treatment to my gearboxes when I have given them a change with huge improvements. I don't like them (on the best advice) in engines but they work a treat in the transmission. May be worth a try as it has sorted a couple of ours with clicky synchros.
    BTW, the figures I quoted in the previous posting as regards volume of oil in each transmission was when I drained them; in each case they took as per recommended, about 2 litres to refill which will give you some idea of how low they were.
    By the sounds of the battery going dead in two days, I would be inclined to get the battery tested and also get the car teasted for shorts if the battery tests OK. That definitely isn't right.
    As you suggest, an alternator operating only marginally could compound this problem, but usually this tends to show other symtoms as well, like charge light dimly glowing when headlights and/or other battery powered things are being used.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! AxGT's Avatar
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    Alan - think nick was talking about putting mobil 1 in the gearbox.

  13. #13
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Whoops!!
    As a BX owner, it's commonly looked upon using full synthetic in gearboxes on them (BXs) as a "no no" overseas, which is why it never even occurred to me that he was talking gearbox oil. clown
    Seeing as I'm a one finger typer, I won't go into the reasons. mallet

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  14. #14
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    Nick,

    Definitely put atleast Mobil Semi-Synthetic Oil in your gearbox and engine. The gearshift will be a little better and the engine will feel like it's been balanced (this really blows my mind, but this is what it felt like in both my 504 and my Dad's 203).

    Dave

  15. #15
    nJm
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    So Dave, Mobile Semi-Synthetic in both?

    It'll need an oil change in 2500kms (I'm going to do it every 5000kms), so I'll try it when the time comes.

    Cheers,
    Nick
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    5,000 ? I didnt think it needed to be done that often ?

    I thought 10,000 was the norm ?

    5 seems a little over the top to me ??

    Ben
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  17. #17
    nJm
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    hmm, well it is 20 years old, it didn't come with a service history, but the guy who owned it seemed to take care of it.

    I just figure that its old, so I'll look after it well. Even if it sounds excessive blush
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts silverexec's Avatar
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    I was under the impression that 5000kms was the standard when changing oil in older cars.

    In the past, I'd always had the oil changed in my parents' car every 10,000kms but got told off by friends saying that "oil loses its effectiveness after 5000kms" followed by "that poor car of yours". Since then I've always done oil changes at 5000kms. Someone please let me know if I'm wasting oil (and money)...

    Richard
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    Now: 405 SRI D70 '93
    - 2.0L manual
    Earlier: 505 GTi Executive '85
    - hence "Silver Exec"...
    25 GTX '86
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  19. #19
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    From clip - induction sounds normal; however from description may be worn bearing on gearbox input shaft or posible alternator frown
    Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten!

  20. #20
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    rick_b:
    From clip - induction sounds normal; however from description may be worn bearing on gearbox input shaft or posible alternator
    Yeah, I guess it could be the gearbox input shaft bearing. That is a very common noise to have on older cars.

    5,000km seems to be the oil change interval recommended by oil experts (not oil salesmen). 10,000km changes are OK with synthetic oils, but you still won't get 1 million kms out of an engine like you can by doing 5,000km changes.

    The general consensus is that Teflon additives in gearboxes, diffs, and balljoints are definitely a good thing, but their worth in engines is very debatable. This make sense since teflon was invented for smooth operation of rotating mechanisms and joints, but it was never intended for use in close proximity to combustion. This is not to say that some people haven't had good results in some types of engines (my father's Falcon Taxi being one example). Generally though, steer clear of teflon in engines, but use it almost everywhere else (either that or moly based lubricants).

    Dave

  21. #21
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Nick,

    Check this out as a reference to Engine oils. If you scratch around there may be something re transmissions. Scroll down & check out the bit on "The Bear Trap" which is something I think all older type cars could benefit from (if they ever get to Australia)
    I use Mobil One in the engine of my 16V but I don't even let it go to 10,000 klms. I try to judge it on smell, colour & texture & if in doubt, out she goes. Last lot lasted for just on 8000 klms. The fairy stories about molecular chains and so forth sound good in theory, but no account is ever taken of the effect all the metal particles swimming around in the engine has. whip

    <a href="http://www.fernblatt.com/longhurst/engineoil_bible.html" target="_blank">http://www.fernblatt.com/longhurst/engineoil_bible.html</a>

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  22. #22
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    Good point Alan. That's what I do - just observe the oil and as soon as it loses its clarity and sometimes viscosity, drop it and renew.

    Nick, you can sort of check the alternator bearings by using a long screwdriver as a stethoscope. Place the tip on the alternator casing, and put the handle on your ear, pressing the ear closed with it. Make sure you don't get clothing or hair caught in any moving parts. You'll hear a duff bearing quite readily. Note they do have a slightly raspy sound when good, but a dodgy one should reproduce the sound you're hearing only much louder, if that's what's wrong. Try it on both ends of the casing.

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  23. #23
    con
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    Stuey,

    I'd like to do the same: Could you explain how you measure viscosity?

    con....

  24. #24
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    it's not so much the oil going off in a car that makes it the need to change the oil but all the contaminants in the oil
    also the additives in the oil go off not so much the oil
    oil will last a lot longer in an engine if running a franz type filter (much like a toilet roll)
    a lot of trucks run these types of filters as do taxis
    if your oil in your car is getting darker in colour it is time to change and generally the older the engine the quicker the oil will change colour
    also you will have more oil consumption once the oil starts to darken as well
    if your oil is keeping it's colour there is no harm in doing 10 000km changes
    if it is going dark earlier than this and is using oil then change it earlier
    you will find that a worn engine that is using a little oil won't use anywher enear as much if you short change the oil at shorter intervals
    also helps if you use good filters and not those el cheapo itmes that only strain out house bricks
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  25. #25
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    Hey there,

    This is possibly too obvious- but my 504 had the fan wired to go permanently and sounded like a vacumn cleaner on heat!! when you were caning it anyway...

    Is your fan setup to run permanently or an electric one with a switch? If it's permanent it could definitely be the problem.

    Cheers Ben

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