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  1. #1
    nJm
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    a few 306 questions

    At the moment dad is driving my 505 as he does not have a car. He will be buying a car late this year or early next year, and has decided he wants a Pug. He likes the 306 a lot, although we don't really know much about them, or what they are like.

    He wants a manual, but we don't know much about the available engines in them, and what changes happened when the 306 got its new nose. I assume it would be worth our while getting an updated model? From what I gather, an XSi fits the bill for him, it is the same 2L from the 406 and 307?

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    One thing that does confuse me is the XSi was the performance 5 door model, and its power figures certainly look healthy for a small car - however on Carsurvey many owners (mainly in the UK) think that the XSi 2L is quite under powered. Yet at the same time, Australian reviews of the 1.8L 306 say they are quick. Why would this be?

    Anyway, I suppose we'll find out for ourselves when we test drive some later on, although this is all purely academic. He says he might even be able to get a 307, although from what I gather from the reviews, appart from build quality, the 307 was really a step backwards from the 306?
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  2. #2
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    when the 306 came out with the new look there were qite a few changes to the car
    icluding 1000 more spot welds to stiffen the body up
    different nose and tail lights
    i think the dash changed as well
    the XSi from what i have heard is a good little performer and as far as i know it shares it's engine with the 406
    i'll have a look around here i think i have a brochure or an article that mentions all the changes to the car between 97-98
    i know the major one was the spot welds in the car and from having driven a 96 model S16 before getting the GTi-6 you could tell the difference in the car
    mind you if you get a car with passenger airbag you will only get an excuse for a glove box
    the other thing that upset me with the car was lack of map pockets on the rear of the front seats and bad radio reception in the car
    i had to remedy this with a signal amplifier
    from what i have heard though the alluminium arial you can get to replace the black one does make a difference and looks good as well
    take a few different ones for a drive and see what he prefers
    my mother nearly got a 306 XSi instead of the 206 GTi
    i was impressed with the performance of the XSi but for the extra money i prefered to stick to my GTi-6 even though it makes it a little hard to get our 5 month old in and out of the rear of the car with having only 2 doors but the doors on the 2 door are quite large
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  3. #3
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    306 questions.

    I wouldn't presume to make suggestions about which model in a specific way but we have a 1995 XT with a factory sunroof.

    It now has 100,000 km and is going well. It is a fabulous car with a typically understated Peugeot excellence in its dynamic engineering. That is it doesn't look more complicated than a Corolla but it drives just so much better. We will keep ours for many years yet.

    We've had only one problem, two replaced heater radiators - just the worst single item to get access to. I've done my homework and this seems a very unusual problem to have twice (not common once!). I suspect coolant and dealer, whom I won't name but it isn't in your city.....

    Main frustrations?? Slight rattle in dash (no doubt caused by it coming out twice!) and not enough storage spaces for books, bottles and so forth. Peugeot are not good at glove boxes.

    The stuff about brakes that was on this forum a few months back hasn't been seen by us - first front rotors did 95,000 km.

    I'd be inclined to go for the later type (large badge) as they significantly upgraded the shell with more weld points and so on - not that the early ones feel less than rigid but the later ones are even better. Which model?? I'd agree the XSi is a good compromise. If you get a sunroof, you'll notice 2 cm less headroom, so if rear passengers are to be common and tall, think again....

    Personally, I haven't driven a 307 so shouldn't comment. I'm inclined to think the 306 was more of a benchmark in its day and just might be a better driver's car. But the 307 is much easier to climb in and out of - might depend on the age of the owner!!

    Good luck,

    JohnW
    JohnW

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  4. #4
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    Nick,

    I've got lots of 306 info since the car first showed its face in the UK & Australia, if you want it.

    To the best of my knowledge, the XSi was only a warm hatch, ie. the 5dr with the standard previous generation 2.0l (ie. not the latest EW10J4 which is in the 206, 406, 307).

    I'm biased, having a 307, but apart from the driving experience, the 307 is a better car. More room, more quiet, better quality, more features, and better value overall. There has to be a reason why the 307 is the best selling Peugeot in Australian history.

    The drive's not that bad anyway. 5 month wait if you choose a popular model though.

    Just on the 306 engines, here's what I can remember off the top of my head.

    77kW 1.8 - original engine.
    84kW 1.8 - updated.
    68kW 1.9 diesel - original diesel
    67kW 2.0 diesel - HDi
    89/92kW 2.0 - original XSi
    100kW 2.0 in the final 306s, both in the base Rallye & XSi.

    Cheers,

    Justin

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

  5. #5
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    Just went through some old Pug literature. Does anyone want to guess what the S in S16 stands for?

    Cheers,

    Justin

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

  6. #6
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    We've had only one problem, two replaced heater radiators - just the worst single item to get access to. I've done my homework and this seems a very unusual problem to have twice (not common once!).

    Im having a problem with my heaters in that they dont get hot air coming through - any ideas??

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Pug 307 -

    Stealthy?


  8. #8
    Cal
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    I can't help thinking the reason the 307 is the best selling Peogeot of all, is because of the 306. The 306 really changed the way Australians feel about Peugoets. Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt the 307 is an excellent car. I just don't think it's sales success is purely a result of it's own merits.
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  9. #9
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Sport I would imagine.

    Isnt the 206GTI called an S16 in Europe?
    B to the R to the A from the D
    1994 MX5 Clubman...are you sure it's not French?

  10. #10
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    According to a Peugeot dealer I spoke to, some of the most vehement critics of the 307 have been 306 owners

    I think the 307 is the best selling Peugeot here largely on its own merits. Peugeot has never sold a product so easily marketable to buyers. It's about the value for money game - people expect good driveability, quality, etc from a Euro car - value for money is where they often fell down. It's a car that gets a lot of people talking I've noticed - the wow factor at what you get for your money is certainly there. Apart from some lack of power, there's practically nothing that the average person would complain about.

    Previously, many people would have viewed a European car as an expensive toy - sure nice to drive, etc, but lacking the features and overall value for money. For the average consumer, when presented with the choice of a better drive, or more features, will probably go with the latter - because it seems like a better deal. Secondly, most cars drive ok, well enough for simple duties, therefore driveability becomes less of an issue. Probably things such as smoothness of gearchanges becomes more important than overall handling. The 307 changes this.

    Hmmn, perhaps the 306 changed the way that people viewed Peugeots, but I'd probably say that's more due to the 206. It's something that brought a lot of young people to the brand. Theoretically, the 206 should be the best selling Peugeot - but it's not. Again, I believe it's down to the value for money equation - the 307 beats it hands down. Why do you think the Mazda 323 sells like hotcakes? Find me a $19,990 car that gives you more for the money.

    Peugeot is becoming more of a mainstream brand here, no longer only the domain of enthusiasts - and that's the thing. The 307 is a car that is great, even if you're not an enthusiast. That's something that a lot of motoring media and enthusiasts miss - how fast 0-100 is, and the handling of the car at the absolute limit, is not the only components to a car. If you want some space, comfort and refinement, with toys a plenty, the 307 is great.

    Over 500,000 307s have now been produced, and there aren't any signs of the Australian supply problem waning yet.

    As for the S in S16, noone's even warm yet!

    Cheers,

    Justin

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Sideways?

  12. #12
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Need a bit of lateral thinking.

    Supped, sexy, serious, sensational, superlative, sacremento???
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  13. #13
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i'd say the S = special
    unless it is something french
    i know it took me ages to work out what TI meant on 504's but i finally found out in the late 80's what that meant
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  14. #14
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    It is in English/Anglais.

    And someone in the last 3 posts is very warm!

    Cheers,

    Justin

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

  15. #15
    nJm
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    Its good to hear you are really happy with your car Justin - with a bit of luck I might see it around

    I do agree with you on the 307, although since I have driven neither a 306 or 307, I can't comment on the handling or ride quality of either. From what I gather from a couple of reviews though, the 307, while still better than the competition, has lost a bit of the 306's "magic carpet ride", instead feeling rather firm. Do you find this with your car?
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  16. #16
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    S = super ?
    still guessing
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  17. #17
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Blakeynz:
    We've had only one problem, two replaced heater radiators - just the worst single item to get access to. I've done my homework and this seems a very unusual problem to have twice (not common once!).

    Im having a problem with my heaters in that they dont get hot air coming through - any ideas??
    Sorry - I've no idea! Ours went from fine to coolant vapour and a strong smell. If no hot air I'd suspect the system that directs air from the heater radiator - I do know that hot coolant passes through continuously and that "non-heating" is controlled by where the air enters the distribution system. Vacuum operated?

    When you fix it I'd be interested to hear what it was and what you did.

    Good Luck

    JohnW
    JohnW

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  18. #18
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    Nick, you're going to have to try harder I've just passed 7000km, and at this rate, the car will be doing 36,000km a year!!!

    Being a Peugeot newbie, sometimes I find I can look at things a bit more objectively than those more well involved in the brand, but one disadvantage I have is my lack of experience in other Peugeots. I've only been in a few 206s for a ride, and a 405 whose dashboard sang a symphony over the Camberwell tram tracks! After being in a 405, did I find the 307's ride harsh? Nope, not at all. In fact, I was trying to work out, what was so great about the ride in a 405. Was the ride in the 206 good? Couldn't tell, the roads we were on were pretty smooth, and if anything, I only noticed the road noise.

    So, back to this topic - sadly I don't know what a 306 rides like. I can't say that the 307 has a superb ride, probably just better than average. What I do notice though, is that at high speeds, on wavy road surfaces, the car has less of a tendency to bounce up and down (like a ship at sea). Secondly, I find the car's ride improves dramatically with a good load on board. Thirdly, I find the ride doesn't change much with air pressures (well, going from 44PSI in the back to 35PSI hasn't made much difference). Fourthly, it doesn't look like the car has a lot of suspension travel.

    What is the ride like overall? To be fair, firm is what it's like most of the time. It doesn't really like small ridges, sharp bumps, tram lines, etc, but is very well composed over high speed ripples in the road, etc. Only sometimes do bumps feel like they crash through the cabin, but otherwise, there's just a solid thump - ie. the suspension's cushioned most of the bump. Maybe it's the refinement of the car that makes the firm ride more noticeable.

    What can I judge from people in the Peugeot business? Strangely enough, I've found that the salespeople (they know I've got the 307, so they don't need to sell anything to me) say that the 307 has a smoother ride overall than the 306 (generally they seem to say it's a smoother car, which isn't as much of a handling car). However, what I found at one dealer, is that the 306 had a longer suspension travel, but the 307 is smoother over the smaller bumps. I have my quibbles about what I'm hearing - because I don't think the 307 is that great over small stuff.

    What I find stranger, is that going through a few old Wheels magazines, is that the writers have tended to say that the 306 rides very well, handles well, but rolls quite a bit - seemingly with a ride bias. But from word of mouth, others seem to say, it handles better than it rides (and if you believe one of the most early Wheels reviews - well, the car doesn't roll much I suppose the lesson from this is, when it comes to driving dynamics, your experience is better than the words of anyone else out there. It's all about perception - if you think it's good, and Mr Citizen thinks it's crap - who cares!

    My benchmark for ride at the moment is the Renault Clio. Is the 307 as good in that respect? No way!

    Cheers,

    Justin

    BTW: Noone's got it yet! But Mr Phasis is warm

    <small>[ 29 July 2002, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: Pug307 ]</small>

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

  19. #19
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Pug307:
    [QB]According to a Peugeot dealer I spoke to, some of the most vehement critics of the 307 have been 306 owners

    Justin,

    I suspect you're right! I'm deeply in love with the way our 306 drives. Shouldn't be critical of hte 307 - dollar for dollar it is an extraordinarily good package, with much more for the money than the early 306 at about the same money (and 8 years later in Australia, for the same money!!!)

    I'm old enough to remember criticising the Renault 12 because it wasn't as "French" and "different" as the R16 or the R8. I'd say I was wrong looking back. And there are still quite a few 12s around, and everyone who knows them (and we have one of them too) knows how reliable and basically sound that design was (or is, if you live in some places).

    I'd also argue that the 306 laid the ground pretty well for the 307 - the first serious selling Peugeot since the 505?

    Cheers

    JohnW
    JohnW

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  20. #20
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    Actually, seeing we're on the topic of sales. What was the best selling Pug, and in which year did Peugeot achieve the highest sales? (I don't know the answer - just wondering).

    I know the heyday of my other favourite manufacturer has long gone...in Australia at least.

    Cheers,

    Justin

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! crosspug's Avatar
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    I seem to remember the 306 overtaking the 505/4?? As the all time best seller........ then again I'm probably quite wrong... but thats my guess. wink

    I think the 306 bought alot of buyers back or new ones to the marque. Buyers saw it as the great car it is and came back for more. Now they see the 307 for it own merits and probably will come back for more (if just for the 307GTi) wink

    We've had 3 306's so far (mum 1 x XR, 1x XT and dad 1x XSi)

    Mum had the crappers for a month after I talked dad into the XSi as she wanted the uniqueness of owning a 306 to herself!!

    My brother loves dad's XSi (better than his girlfriends 206CC 2L, and his 106GTi!! eek! )

    His fav is the Clio V6, says its an absolute BLAST!!!!!!!!!!!!! :p Better than the DB7 he reacons. (Was an engineer on both)

    Jono
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  22. #22
    rek
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    Pug307:
    It is in English/Anglais.

    And someone in the last 3 posts is very warm!
    "Sportive" (sporting) or "Sportif" (sportsman)
    Peter
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  23. #23
    rek
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    Pug307:
    Actually, seeing we're on the topic of sales. What was the best selling Pug, and in which year did Peugeot achieve the highest sales? (I don't know the answer - just wondering).
    I doubt it'd be the mid-90s .. a little issue of France and pacific islands etc :p

    If you believe this article as a definitive statement, it was 2001:

    <a href="http://www.autoweb.com.au/start_/showall_/id_PEU/doc_peu0201091/article.html" target="_blank">http://www.autoweb.com.au/start_/showall_/id_PEU/doc_peu0201091/article.html</a>

    As far as the best selling model, it was the 306 (2.7 million worldwide, over 12,500 in Australia):

    <a href="http://www.autoweb.com.au/start_10/showall_/id_PEU/doc_peu0112101/article.html" target="_blank">http://www.autoweb.com.au/start_10/showall_/id_PEU/doc_peu0112101/article.html</a>
    Peter
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  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger!
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  25. #25
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    It's a slight variation of one of the words mentioned by Mr Phasis.

    That Autoweb article says the 306 is the best selling car in Peugeot's history, but is it the best selling car in Peugeot Australia's history?

    There seem to be a handful of old 504s around still - did they sell well back in those days?

    Cheers,

    Justin

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

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